Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#1161

Don't be offended by this question, but I am curious:

Did Mohini & Lakshmi ever meet, face to face? And if they were to, would Lakshmi regard Mohini as her husband?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#1162

Originally posted by: akhl
During churning of ocean, Vishnu was present as Kurma. He was there on the side of the gods holding the rope (the serpent). He was also holding the mountain from the top. All these three simultaneously.

I thought the devas were holding the tail, the asuras the heads of Vasuki and Kurma was at the bottom preventing it from sinking. It would seem to me that holding it from the top would be redundant, no? Incidentally, did the mountain sink after Kurma withdrew, or did Garuda come back and return it to its original location?

And all that churning released Vasuki's venom, which poisoned the churning parties, which was why Shiva needed to come down and drink all that venom, thereby earning him the name Nilkantha.

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Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 16 years ago

#1163

As for Kurma Avtaar, Lord Vishnu was present as Kurma, Mohini and Lord Vishnu himself.

I think Garuda returned the peak to its original place, but Kurma did not withdraw as soon as the Asuras and Devas started chasing Danvantri.

It was Lord Brahma who held the mountain from the top while the churning of the ocean was in progress, not Lord Vishnu.

There are different versions of the Dasavataar list - Nine of these lists are the same:

Matsya
Kurma
Varaaha
Narasimha
Vamana
Parasurama
Rama
Krishna
Kalki

The remaining one - some say its Balarama, some say its Budha, some say its Mohini.

Garuda and Aruna were born to Vinata, another wife of Kashyap.

Sage Kashyap had 13 wives - all 13 were daughters of Daksha. They were named Aditi, Diti, Danu, Vinata, Kadru (or Surasa), Ila (or Era), Surabhi (or Kapila), Sarmas, Muni, Khasa (or Vishva), Krodha (or Krodhvasha), Arishta, Tamara.

Aditi - Mother of the Devas and Lord Vamana
Diti - Mother of the Daityas and the Maruts
Danu - Mother of the Danavas
Krodha - Mother of the Rakshasas
Kadru - Mother of the Snakes (Snakes are considered semi - divine beings)
Vinata - Mother of Aruna and Garuda (Aruna is elder)
Arishta - Mother of Gandharvas
Khasa - Mother of the Yakshas
Muni - Mother of the Apsaras
Surabhi - Mother of the Cows and buffaloes (I think cattle in general)
Ila - Mother of the trees
Sarmas - Mother of Canines (to be specific, dogs)
Tamara - Mother of other animals and birds

The names and the number of wives of Maharishi Kashyap is different in various versions. I have given the maximum number.

Mohini could take the form whenever he/she wished, but, from what I know he took the form of Mohini to kill Raahu (continued by the birth of Manikanda - Ayyappa) and to kill Bhasmasur.

I read a story about Appaya Dikshitar. In a temple, the Sastha (Ayyappa) sat with with his legs crossed with his finger on his nose as if pondering about something deeply. It was said that whoever finds what he was thinking and says it out loud, the statue will remove the finger from the nose. Appaya Dikshitar said - The Lord thinks, "When I go to Kailash, Lord Shiva is my father and I address Parvati Devi as Mother. When I go to Vaikuntha, Lord Vishnu is my Mother, but how will I address Lakshmi Devi? She is my mother's wife!!??!" The moment he said this, the statue removed the finger and a loud laughter was heard in the temple.

In the carved statues and paintings of many temples of Ayyappa, Devi Lakshmi is depicted sad when Lord Vishnu went with Lord Shiva for a while.

Regarding Kalki, I'll post what I know a bit later.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#1164

Vibs

Thanks for all this info - particularly the one about rishi Kashyap's wives. As far as the question by Appaya Dikshitar goes, it's comforting to know that I'm not the only wierd one who thinks that way😆😆😆

Actually, another thing I was always curious about was whether Buddha's advent was foretold in the Puranas (say Vishnu Puranas) or something done way after his passing. B'cos nothing else follows - I've never seen it claimed that Siddhartha's wife Yashodhara was Lakshmi or so on.

Re: Mohini, did Ayyappa's birth happen around the same time frame as the Samudra Manthan? Or did Vishnu take the Mohini rup whenever he felt like it? Was Mohini then the 9th avatar, or 3rd, or somewhere else in between?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#1165

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

In the carved statues and paintings of many temples of Ayyappa, Devi Lakshmi is depicted sad when Lord Vishnu went with Lord Shiva for a while.

She should have hooked up with Devi Parvati or Sati, depending on the timeframe in question

Incidentally, Sati would then have been the sister to all these 13 wives?

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bharat9

@bharat9

Dazzler

Posted: 16 years ago

#1166

After going through your posts here, it seems like that you all agree with this fact that when Lord Vishnu took the avatar as Lord Ram and Laxmiji as Sita, then there was no one living in chirr sagar, but they both were present on earth as Rama and Sita. i actually, to be honest wid u, never thought of this. Thought that Lord Vishnu ji always staysthere in chirr sagar. so, which one is the correct statement?

But then in Shri Krishna they also showd in this way that Lord Krishna was present on earch as well as in Golok ( the one above heaven where shri Krishna does raaslila wid all the Gopias and Radhaji).

Edited by bharat9 - 16 years ago

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Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 16 years ago

#1167

Ayyappa's birth happened after the Samudra Mandhan (But before Varaha Avtaar, I think).

This child of Lord Shiva and Vishnu was left in a forest and found by a king and raised as his own child. Some say the kid was named Manikandan (Mani - gem, kandam - neck ; Manikandan - the one with the gem like neck or with a gem necklace - in the later version of the name, it is believed that the child had a gem necklace on his neck). Many years later, he cured his Guru's son's inability (the boy was not able to speak). The first words he uttered was "Ayya ... Appaa ... Ayyappa" (Ayya - Lord ; Appa - Father). From then on Manikandan was callen Ayyappa.

Mohini Avtaar was in between Kurma and Varaha Avtaar. I don't know if Vishnu took up Mohini Avtaar whenever he felt like it. As far as I know he took up that Avtaar whenever it was necessary.

So far I haven't read about Budha in the Puranas. I have not read all of the Puranas completely. There might be chance (though I consider it unlikely) that Budha is mentioned in any of the Puranas. I usually count Mohini as one of the 10 main Avtaars of Lord Vishnu.

P.S. - Don't worry about questions that may sound weird. Your was much better than the ones I get from my friends. One of them asked me what was Parasuram's reaction when he met Sita.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#1168

In Krishna's case, since he knew that he was Vishnu and retained all his celestial perks, there was nothing to miss - whenever he liked, he was in Gokul, Vrindavan, Mathura, Dwaraka, Indraprastha, Devalok, Vaikuntha, et al. So unlike with Rama where it had to be a secret, everybody openly worshipped Krishna like he was no different from Vishnu - in fact, for the war with Narakasura, Indra directly approached him and asked him to go to war with him.

I thought the Gopis and Radha all happened in Gokul/Vrindavan. There was one rakshasha sent by Kamsa to kill him whom he and Balarama fought in heaven. Other than that, his entire childhood, afaik, was on earth.

Steering back to the Ramayan, I considered it interesting that for a team that relied entirely on Tulsidas, the Kaagbhushandi story was completely dropped. I'm happy at this, since I thought it a complete distraction from Valmiki, but I'm not sure what I think of Karkati replacing it.

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Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 16 years ago

#1169

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

She should have hooked up with Devi Parvati or Sati, depending on the timeframe in question
Incidentally, Sati would then have been the sister to all these 13 wives?

There is a version of Ayyappa's birth that says that Parvati Devi and Lakshmi Devi were both sad on the long separation from their husbands.

Yes. Sati was a sister to all these 13 women and to the 27 (or was it 26 ? ) who were married to Chandra (🤔 I mean, the Moon).

I have read of more daughter s if Daksha. I've lost count of his daughters. I don't know the source of information for the rest of his daughters.