Is Pakistan serious about the arrests?

bheegi thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#1
As we all know, Pakistan has recently cracked down on some of the militants and their organization.
The question is- are they serious arrests or just an eyewash in front of the International media?
Wonderful article from npr today:

NPR.org, December 12, 2008 Security officials in Pakistan say they have arrested more than 20 militants who are part of groups linked to the commando attacks that killed more than 170 people in Mumbai, India. It is not clear whether the arrests will placate India, which has accused Pakistan of offering a safe haven to terrorist groups.

The latest to be detained is Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, the leader of a group that the United Nations Security Council has just designated as a terrorist group. Saeed has been placed under house arrest at his home in Lahore, Pakistan.

Others arrested include senior members of Lashkar-e-Taiba, or LeT, a group suspected of organizing the Mumbai attacks. But analysts say the arrests may be little more than a gesture to ease pressure from the United States and other nations.

Pakistani officials said they arrested about a dozen men at a Lashkar-e-Taiba training camp in Pakistani Kashmir. Those detained included Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi, named by India as a possible planner of the attacks.

Pakistani officials have not produced any of the arrestees. They have said that the suspects would be tried in Pakistan if charges were brought against them and that they wouldn't hand any Pakistani citizens over to Indian authorities.

Some Key Arrests

Christine Fair, a senior analyst with the Rand Corp., says three of the LeT members arrested are important figures, especially Lakhvi, who is considered the group's operations commander in Kashmir.

"But these are replaceable guys," she said, in an interview earlier this week. "The real story is who they didn't arrest."

Fair was referring to Saeed, who was not arrested until several days after the initial raids. Saeed is known as a fiery orator who frequently denounces the United States, India and Jews in widely circulated speeches. Saeed helped start LeT in 1990, allegedly with the help of officers from Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, who used LeT as a surrogate in the struggles with India over Kashmir.

Fair says she thinks Pakistan only arrested Saeed in response to a U.N. Security Council resolution on Dec. 10, designating Jama'at-ud-Da'wa as a terrorist group. She said she'll remain skeptical until she sees whether Pakistan will actually bring Saeed to court and charge him. Fair also notes that Jama'at-ud-Da'wa only came into being in 2002, after Pakistan banned Lashkar-e-Taiba. She says it remains to be seen whether Jama'at-ud-Da'wa will now reconstitute itself under some other name.

Marvin Weinbaum, a scholar at the Middle East Institute, agrees that Saeed is a key figure but says it would be difficult to prosecute him in the Mumbai case because he is unlikely to have been one of the operational figures. Saeed has to keep some distance, Weinbaum says, because he serves a better purpose as the public face of Jama'at-ud-Da'wa, which describes itself as a charitable group and raises millions of dollars in private funding for its schools, mosques and humanitarian efforts.

"What we're seeing now," says Weinbaum, "is [Pakistan's] familiar pattern of giving up just enough to satisfy international pressure, but not too much."

He notes that the Pakistani government arrested Saeed in August 2006 because of alleged involvement in the bombings of the Mumbai train system, a series of attacks that killed more than 200 people just the month before. Saeed was detained until mid-October of that year, but finally released for lack of evidence.

This time around, Pakistan has arrested Saeed, Lakhvi, and Massoud Azhar, a Muslim cleric and the leader of another militant group called The Army of Muhammad.

"That's meant to satisfy the Indians," says Weinbaum, who points out that Azhar was freed from an Indian jail in 2002, after militants hijacked an Indian jetliner and traded the hostages for his release. The latest arrest is "the kind of gesture they can make at this moment," Weinbaum adds. "They always let these people go in 60 or 90 days because they're never able to bring charges."

Fair of the Rand Corp. says the Pakistani government can always claim it is impossible to prosecute the militants using information from intelligence channels because to do so would reveal sources and means of gathering information.

Disturbing Possibilities

Fair says the alleged participation of Lashkar-e-Taiba in the Mumbai attacks raises some disturbing possibilities.

"Lashkar-e-Taiba has been different from the other militant groups operating in Pakistan," she says, "because it remained close to the ISI and didn't take part in attacks against the Pakistani state."

One extreme possibility, Fair says, is that Lashkar-e-Taiba may have launched the Mumbai attacks in connivance with Pakistan's military in an effort to provoke a crisis between India and Pakistan. Fair says that could draw Pakistani troops away from the border with Afghanistan, where they have been fighting Pakistani militants, an effort that is not popular with the Pakistani public. The move could restore the army to its popular role of protecting Pakistan from India.

Another possibility, Fair says, is that LeT has gotten strong enough to shake off Pakistani government strings and act on its own.

"If so," she says, "this is a truly terrifying development, because of all the South Asian terror groups, this is by far the most competent."

Fair notes that LeT's strength has reportedly grown with the help of private money from Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf states.

Weinbaum of the Middle East Institute says Lashkar-e-Taiba is a real problem for Pakistan's military, which doesn't want to destroy the group, because it might still be of use against India in Kashmir. As to Pakistan's civilian government, he says "I think they have reason to think twice before they take on Lashkar-e-Taiba. This is a weak government, after all. If they don't have public support, there's not much they can do."

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raj5000 thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#2

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Edited by raj5000 - 17 years ago
Taiyo thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#3
Bheegi,

"No." A complete eyewash. These LeT terrorists are like cheap soldiers for the ISI and the Pakistani army to wage a proxy war against India. Do you think, ISI and Pakistan army will shut down the camps and stop the proxy war against India.

It would never happen, these two organisations thrive on anti-India activities. I read somewhere that ISI has a 60 year plan or something similar to disintegrate India.
Edited by an12345678 - 17 years ago
Taiyo thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#4
India skeptic over Pak's action against terrorists
Press Trust of India
Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:52 AM (New Delhi)

Voicing skepticism over Pakistan acting decisively against terrorists operating from its soil, External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee has said such elements have been "let off" in the past after some initial action.

"Therefore we shall have to see whether these (actions by Pakistan) are taken to their logical conclusion," he said, asking Islamabad to ensure that the terror infrastructure is dismantled completely.

Reacting to Islamabad's demand for evidence of the involvement of the Pakistan-based elements in the Mumbai attacks, Mukherjee said India was ready to do so but not at this juncture when investigations were yet to be concluded.

"We can make available whatever evidences we have. In this case, we are also investigating, we have not come to any conclusion. Therefore at this juncture, perhaps, it would be premature to share the evidences," Mukherjee said during an interview.

He refused to comment on the current crackdown on terror groups in Pakistan, while noting that similar actions took place in the aftermath of the attack on Parliament in 2001.

"Almost similar actions were taken at the initial stage when the international pressure was mounted. After that it was let off," he said, adding that he was "waiting to see" that these steps are pursued seriously.

"I am waiting to see the infrastructure facilities available to terrorists are totally dismantled and the outlawed and banned organisations do not reappear in their new name with the new signboards but with the same old faces."

His remarks follow Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's statement in Parliament on Thursday that the international community has to be galvanised into "dealing sternly and effectively with the epicentre of terrorism, which is located in Pakistan."

Mukherjee said the "non-state actors" Pakistan has been referring to as behind the terror attacks "live and function" within the territory of that country.

"That is why, repeatedly, I said elements from Pakistan. That is a phrase I have used meticulously. I would not like to be more specific unless definitive conclusion is arrived at by the investigating agencies," he said.

The Minister's comments come amid a crackdown launched by Pakistan against the Jamaat-ud Dawa, the front organisation of Lashkar-e Toiba (LeT) blamed for the Mumbai attacks, after the
UN Security Council designated the outfit as a terrorist group.

Mukherjee noted that in response to the demarche issued by India, Pakistan said it was considering "various aspects" on action to be taken and planning to send a high-level delegation here.

In the demarche, he said he has sought action against two categories of persons -- those who have committed crime in India and have taken shelter in Pakistan, and Pakistani citizens indulging in terrorist activities in India.

"Some people who have committed crime in India and have taken shelter in Pakistan like Dawood Ibrahim. We are asking the Pakistan authorities to hand him over to Indian authorities so that he can be tried as per Indian laws here.

"There are persons who are Pakistan citizens, who are indulging in terrorist activities in India. Let them be arrested and tried as per Pakistan law," Mukherjee said.

The Minister said he did not understand the difficulty Pakistan has in handing over Masood Azhar to India. "He was in Indian custody. We had to hand over him to hijackers of the Indian plane in Kandahar. He is available in Pakistan. He is seen on television screens in Pakistan. I do not know what difficulty Pakistan has (in handing him over)."

"Pakistan government did not demand his (Azhar's) return. Hijackers had demanded that you release him. (If) Pakistan government cannot hand him over to us what is the point in keeping him under house arrest," Mukherjee asked.

On whether Pakistan has sought consular access to Ajmal Amir Iman, the lone surviving terrorist arrested during the Mumbai attacks, he said India has not received any official request.

"To my knowledge it has not reached me. I do not know whether it has reached to the lower level. I will find it out," Mukherjee said.

"Are they saying the man is a Pakistani citizen. I do not know. Have they claimed the dead bodies, I do not know," he said, pointing out that "everything is appearing in the media."

Mukherjee asserted that the government will take all steps to protect the territorial integrity of the country but ruled out war as a solution to the problem.

Asked on how long would India wait, he said "it depends on how fast, how quickly Pakistan responds or whether they respond at all or not. Therefore it will not be possible for me to indicate any time frame right now."

On the Joint Anti-Terror Mechanism, Mukherjee said four meetings had taken place since its establishment but "nothing has been produced."

Asked whether the mechanisms have failed, he said "I do not want to come to any conclusion. But I think, whatever they have committed, whatever they are to do let them do it first."


News Source: https://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mumbaiterrorstrike/Story.aspx?ID=NEWEN20080076304&type=News
hot babe thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#5
i think u guys are just exaggertaing why is everyone pointing the finger at pakistan
if the same think happened in islamabad and the citozens were alleged indians would the indian authority try the suspects in their own courts or hand them to pakistan
i truly believe that if hard, strong evidence has been found against them then they will be tried, i also think the media from both paksitan and india are stretching the matter.
Sharmii thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: hot babe

i think u guys are just exaggertaing why is everyone pointing the finger at pakistan

if the same think happened in islamabad and the citozens were alleged indians would the indian authority try the suspects in their own courts or hand them to pakistan
i truly believe that if hard, strong evidence has been found against them then they will be tried, i also think the media from both paksitan and india are stretching the matter.

Cant equate pakistan with India...
Unlike Pakistan india is a Functional proper democracy for the past 60 years......
There is a difference in trying in Indian courts and trying in Pakistani courts..!
Edited by Sharmii - 17 years ago
200467 thumbnail
Posted: 17 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: hot babe

i think u guys are just exaggertaing why is everyone pointing the finger at pakistan

if the same think happened in islamabad and the citozens were alleged indians would the indian authority try the suspects in their own courts or hand them to pakistan
i truly believe that if hard, strong evidence has been found against them then they will be tried, i also think the media from both paksitan and india are stretching the matter.

That's a big fat IF there, sweetie😉 Oh, btw, the evidence is as hard and as strong as it can ever get. No ifs and buts there😊
bheegi thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#8
Talking about seriousness, read this New York Times article on the arrests:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/world/asia/13pstan.html?_r=1&ref=world

With House Arrest Pakistan Curbs, Lightly, a Leader Tied to Mumbai Attacker


By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr. and SALMAN MASOOD
Published: December 12, 2008

LAHORE, Pakistan — On a normal Friday afternoon the line of cars and red Honda motorbikes outside the Qadssiya mosque stretches to a gas station a half mile away. Eight thousand worshipers typically come to hear Hafiz Muhammad Saeed preach at the headquarters of the organization he leads, Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the charity that fronts for the militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. The two-tiered mosque can accommodate only a portion of the crowd, so the remainder spill out onto a broad concrete courtyard.

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Mohsin Raza/Reuters

Guards searched people outside a mosque in Lahore, Pakistan, on Friday that is the headquarters of Jamaat-ud-Dawa.

But this Friday the road outside was clear, and the few thousand who showed up were all able to fit inside. The day before, the Pakistani authorities had put Mr. Saeed under house arrest and closed dozens of the group's offices across the country. Many followers were unnerved.

"The government has created a panic," said Mohammed Nawaz, 35, one of the mosque administrators, who estimated that only one in four people came to this week's services. "Our leader has been arrested, so what happens if they come to prayers? Not a lot of people have come today. People are not certain what will happen next."

A few miles away, in Mr. Saeed's leafy neighborhood, it was a decidedly more relaxed scene. Several dozen policemen ringed the area around his home, standing casually with rifles and enforcing a house arrest that seemed more of a forced vacation.

Two heavily bearded workers from Jamaat-ud-Dawa arrived with food, and the police raised the barricades and allowed them through, choosing not to inspect their Suzuki truck. Mr. Saeed's relatives have been allowed to come and go freely from the home, policemen said. A young boy and a girl standing on the second-floor balcony of Mr. Saeed's home looked down at the police and smiled.

One local police commander, seeing journalists arrive, rushed over and proclaimed that Mr. Saeed was confined inside his home, banned from going outside now or at any other time.

Almost on cue, Mr. Saeed emerged moments later from the mosque across the street, clad in a green jacket and a cream-colored shalwar kameez, the long tunic and baggy pants that Pakistani men commonly wear, and ambled back to his house. "No, no, it's not Hafiz Saeed," the embarrassed commander said, though it clearly was. "I'm just following instructions," he added.

The two scenes underscored the Pakistani government's deeply mixed reaction to Mr. Saeed and his organization following the terrorist attacks in Mumbai that the Indian and United States governments have accused Lashkar of carrying out.

Under intense pressure to show some resolve against homegrown terrorism, the Pakistani government claims to have arrested the Lashkar official suspected of running the Mumbai attacks, and then on Thursday and Friday it shut down dozens of Jamaat-ud-Dawa offices and said it had detained many of the group's members.

But the government has also taken clear steps to soften the blow, like allowing Mr. Saeed to hold a defiant news conference before his house arrest began. Mr. Saeed maintains that neither he nor Jamaat-ud-Dawa have had connections to Lashkar for more than six years.

As was apparent at his home on Friday, the government is clearly reluctant to cut off Mr. Saeed and his group too abruptly, partly out of expediency but partly out of fear, too.

Pakistan has used Lashkar and other militant groups as surrogate security forces in Kashmir, the disputed Himalayan region claimed by both Pakistan and India, and many in the country's army are sympathetic to Lashkar and other Islamist militant groups. The country's premier spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence, helped establish Lashkar in the 1980s to undermine the Indian authorities in Kashmir.

Lashkar and Jamaat-ud-Dawa remain popular in Punjab, the most populous province, where the cities and villages that spread out from Lahore, the provincial capital, have been the principal recruiting ground for Lashkar and Jamaat-ud-Dawa and for the men accused of carrying out the Mumbai attacks. In these rural areas the two organizations are synonymous.

Moreover, Jaamat-ud-Dawa is seen by many Punjabis as a more effective relief agency than the government, bringing shelter, food, blankets and medicine to people devastated by earthquakes in Kashmir in 2005 and in Baluchistan Province in October.

"All the relief work will be badly affected" by the crackdown, said Mohammed Faizan Kashif, a 28-year-old Lahore banker who attended Friday's service and, like many here, sharply criticized what he described as the government's fecklessness and kow-towing to American and Indian pressure. "If I try to organize a fashion show, the government will facilitate it," he said. "But if I try to highlight the Kashmir issue, the government would stop it."

Inside the mosque, Mr. Saeed's 38-year-old son, Mohammed Talha Saeed, took his father's place at the podium and inveighed against the government's crackdown as the result of "dictation from the United States" and pressure from "Jews and the Hindu lobby."

"If the government continues this type of activity, then one day the army of God will come," he lectured, urging the worshipers to remain patient.

Waqar Gillani contributed reporting.
melancholic thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#9
banning something is just an eye wash..
we hav so many things banned in india like smoking in public places? how many listen!!
jamaat banned so wat ? these guys will come out in some different name and start the terrorist organisations again...
bt i dnt blame the pakistan govt...
one side getting slapped by pro-taliban common ppl (85% of them support taliban system) and then talibans giving dhamkis dat if they support US -INdia they will take over the govt..
on the other side
huge pressure from the whole anti-terror world organisations and countries!!
kya karega bechara zardari-gilani govt!!😆
3365 thumbnail
Posted: 17 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: an12345678

Bheegi,

"No." A complete eyewash. These LeT terrorists are like cheap soldiers for the ISI and the Pakistani army to wage a proxy war against India. Do you think, ISI and Pakistan army will shut down the camps and stop the proxy war against India.

It would never happen, these two organisations thrive on anti-India activities. I read somewhere that ISI has a 60 year plan or something similar to disintegrate India.

really?😡 r indian politicians really gonna do something or our contyr is going to be destroyed by some ants?
abt this topic they r certainly not going to do anything it is just a drama to show to international bench so as to protect its self from being banned by all the countries.!!!!!!!!

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