Diagon Alley Yours: Harry Potter Discussion Thread #1 - Page 8

Originally posted by: Thorn.Princess

Thank you for this thread! Harry Potter is that part of my childhood that will always be a part of me, my personality, and my values. The characters, whether in the book or the movies were portrayed in such a manner, that they feel personal coz they are relatable, and I'd go on war for them too. I think we were lucky to be a part of the euphoria in whatever manner possible. Personally, I remember waiting in line for hours at our local bookstore when the last few books came out and reading and discussing it used to be like elite society or something xD, now it has become kind of like a comfort series, despite its legacy not aging well. The friendship of the trio is undoubtedly the highlight in the series, always wished in my childhood we could have more context on the Marauders and First Wizarding War in the books, so we could understand the similarities in Harry and Neville, and their respective parents and friends who fought bravely and suffered its consequences. In all likelihood, even Neville could've been 'the chosen one'. There is a theory that Hermione's cat Crookshanks actually belonged to the Potters and was on a lookout for Pettigrew, which is why it went behind Scabbers, and helped Sirius Black navigate in Hogwarts after the escape in POA, which is one I genuinely swear could be true, though I'm not sure if it was included in canon.

This is one book series where each character held their own, and we were given varied standpoints on them which got diluted with the movies picking and choosing what traits to highlight, backstories and arcs to focus on or changes that even made people favour the grey characters and ship non-canon. There is a huge difference in the portrayal for instance of Ron/Ginny/Draco in the books vs their characters in the movies vs the fan fictions. While there are still qualms about cultural accuracy of the minority characters and how they were substantiated in the books and movies, there was still some representation found for children, who just wanted to see someone who looks like them.

While I love the golden trio with all my heart, for many that I know, it was Harry or Hermione who were their favourite characters from the trio in the first few books for their 'books, cleverness, bravery and courage', mine was always unequivocally Ron. Ron and his family, who decided Harry needed them even before knowing his identity and accepted him in the Burrow with open arms. Ron, who casually helped them on chess and things pertaining to the Wizarding World, who never had any highhandedness about being a 'pure blood', who always felt second to Harry but was always counted upon to be there when needed the most and who was the most precious thing to both Harry and Hermione in GOF. Even without any romantic subplot whatsoever, he is that endearing character who is both goofy and intuitive at the same time. We see him complain, we see him make mistakes, we see him struggle, but his loyalty always remains with Harry. The only time we see a strong response is when he thinks his family is in trouble in DH, and even then he comes back, because both Harry and Hermione mean the world to him, in addition to his family (Mr & Mrs. Weasley, Bill & Fleur, Charlie, Fred & George and Ginny), who are all willing to give up their lives for the greater good. They are super blessed with friendship too with the Silver Trio (Ginny, Luna and Neville), Dean, Cedric, Seamus, who were an important with their incredible growth throughout the books, however they were treated with subjugation in the movies, while Bellatrix and others had more ss, which makes me prefer the books.

Such a beautiful post... I'm a little lost for words 🥺. I loved the tumblr post highlighting HP's message specially .

@Blue Agree with this part completely. I choose to ignore the so called legacy and haven't watched Fantastic Beasts for this very reason... would rather not tarnish the memories associated with the original series.

@Green The similarities between Harry and Neville are highlighted repeatedly... and the fact that Neville could've been the Chosen One too. In fact, Dumbledore himself states multiple times that Voldemort chose to go after Harry... and made the prophecy come true... but it could have potentially gone in a lot of different ways otherwise.

Crookshanks part is totally fanon though . Nothing in canon supports this theory... although nothing disproves it either... so we are free to interpret as we wish .

I like what you said about Ron... the movies did the Weasleys dirty... and unfortunately, that's been expanded upon further by the fandom . I like Ron too and consider him an integral part of the storyline... so it's disappointing to read the bashing on his character. It's one of the reasons I stopped reading HP FFs despite being so much in love with this series... the fandom is rabid... and the constant bashing on Ron / Ginny / Weasleys and Dumbledore... while trying to make other gray-black characters appear milky white is .

@Purple There is no doubt that the books were better. I like the movies too... but there's no way they can compete with the books . Looking forward to see how they take it up in the upcoming series... although I'm admittedly wary too. Aahhh... even if it's not done well, at least we will always have the books to go back to .

Thanks again for this wonderful post. Always happy to come across like minded HP fans .

Love,

Stuti

Originally posted by: DreamOfEndless

Thanks for the amazing explanation. I am glad I brought my question here ❤️

I don’t remember so much from the books, so thanks for quoting them. I read them like four years back during lockdown that too on my nephew’s insistence. The movies were so bad that I had no curiosity to go through the books They missed all important details in the movies (dunno why they are making a series now). The worst adaptation was of Ron’s character, he is so much better and well-rounded in the books. Even Ginny. My favorite bond is the one shown between Harry and Sirius, he was such a heartwarming father figure. Sirius's and Dobby’s death hit me the hardest.

My confusion had been mainly regarding rebound of the Avada spell and the fact that Voldemort had made non-living Horcruxes. Thank you both for clearing my doubt ❤️ I will come back with more stupid questions if I have them

The movies made the protagonists dumber (except Dumbledore and Hermione I guess) and the antagonists desirable . I'm glad you decided to give the books a chance, otherwise you would have missed out on A LOT...

Always happy for a chance to revisit HP... so looking forward to your questions .

Actually it's been years since I read the books and watched movies

When reading it was so mesmerizing that when i heard movie will be made it made more exciting to see all action on screen .

I think i was already on 4 th book when the first movie came out

Many yrs later and repeat seeing movies and books it became clear movies did mess up lot of things and jkr did lot of bloopers

So anyways i m trying to remember more but only this so far

Time turner biggest mystery for me

I still don't understand how it worked

Harry and Hermione go back to Hagrid. In past.but they r still in Hagrid cabin

I mean how did past and present connect there with future Hermione hitting present Harry with stone something

The whole sequence with past present future was confusing for me

Originally posted by: chatterbox

Actually it's been years since I read the books and watched movies

When reading it was so mesmerizing that when i heard movie will be made it made more exciting to see all action on screen .

I think i was already on 4 th book when the first movie came out

Many yrs later and repeat seeing movies and books it became clear movies did mess up lot of things and jkr did lot of bloopers

So anyways i m trying to remember more but only this so far

Time turner biggest mystery for me

I still don't understand how it worked

Harry and Hermione go back to Hagrid. In past.but they r still in Hagrid cabin

I mean how did past and present connect there with future Hermione hitting present Harry with stone something

The whole sequence with past present future was confusing for me

Time travel works differently in HP. It's not future Hermione hitting present Harry... both versions are there at the same time. They just experienced it twice over... but if you look at that scene objectively... that is to say you were a fly on the wall... you would see 2 Harrys and Hermiones at the same time.

It has been implied throughout the year where the boys think they just saw Hermione in one place... but then she turns up somewhere else suddenly. Dumbledore had implied that the two versions shouldn't be seen together... so they had to be careful not be seen on their second go.

This form of time travel ensures that it doesn't become a deus ex machina. Because otherwise it raises the question as to why the time turners aren't used to change the past (especially changing the outcome of horrible things like deaths, war, etc). The thing is... they didn't change the past per se... the events had already happened (like I said earlier, an objective viewer would see both the versions simultaneously). They just had to do everything they had already supposedly done... if that makes sense . It's how I try to understand it anyway... but it only works for the original books and if we ignore anything else Rowling says / writes afterwards.

In an article on what was previously Pottermore, she wrote about how someone messing with time had changed the whole flow of time for everyone (making one day last 2.5 days and another day to be over within a few hours... which again makes no sense but whatever ). And their descendants became unborn, which implies that the past can be changed...?! No wonder it's confusing to the readers / viewers if the writer is unsure herself .

Anyway Rowling made sure that Hermione had to give back her time turner at the end of the year... and in fact, all time turners in the ministry were destroyed during the battle between DA and Death Eaters in the Order of the Phoenix. She basically introduced time travel, realized the number of plotholes she had just opened up... and decided to retcon it out of existence .

Source :

https://www.wizardingworld.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/time-turner

Originally posted by: ssttuuttii

Time travel works differently in HP. It's not future Hermione hitting present Harry... both versions are there at the same time. They just experienced it twice over... but if you look at that scene objectively... that is to say you were a fly on the wall... you would see 2 Harrys and Hermiones at the same time.

It has been implied throughout the year where the boys think they just saw Hermione in one place... but then she turns up somewhere else suddenly. Dumbledore had implied that the two versions shouldn't be seen together... so they had to be careful not be seen on their second go.

This form of time travel ensures that it doesn't become a deus ex machina. Because otherwise it raises the question as to why the time turners aren't used to change the past (especially changing the outcome of horrible things like deaths, war, etc). The thing is... they didn't change the past per se... the events had already happened (like I said earlier, an objective viewer would see both the versions simultaneously). They just had to do everything they had already supposedly done... if that makes sense . It's how I try to understand it anyway... but it only works for the original books and if we ignore anything else Rowling says / writes afterwards.

In an article on what was previously Pottermore, she wrote about how someone messing with time had changed the whole flow of time for everyone (making one day last 2.5 days and another day to be over within a few hours... which again makes no sense but whatever ). And their descendants became unborn, which implies that the past can be changed...?! No wonder it's confusing to the readers / viewers if the writer is unsure herself .

Anyway Rowling made sure that Hermione had to give back her time turner at the end of the year... and in fact, all time turners in the ministry were destroyed during the battle between DA and Death Eaters in the Order of the Phoenix. She basically introduced time travel, realized the number of plotholes she had just opened up... and decided to retcon it out of existence .

Source :

https://www.wizardingworld.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/time-turner

Wow. It seems whole sequence was confusing. I had repeated read the book and seen in movie but it never made sense to me

Ya they were finally destroyed in 5 th book finally

Originally posted by: chatterbox

Wow. It seems whole sequence was confusing. I had repeated read the book and seen in movie but it never made sense to me

Ya they were finally destroyed in 5 th book finally

What do you think? Does my explanation work? So... objectively both the events are happening in present simultaneously... they just experience it twice.

Look at us.. trying to make sense of a nonsensical scenario . Would be happy to hear other thoughts atound this and see if something else fits better...

Originally posted by: ssttuuttii

What do you think? Does my explanation work? So... objectively both the events are happening in present simultaneously... they just experience it twice.

Look at us.. trying to make sense of a nonsensical scenario . Would be happy to hear other thoughts atound this and see if something else fits better...

Ha ha ha. Actually it does make sense but whole scenario by jkr was nonsensical

Even later when Harry uses expecting patronum he thinks his father did but it was him

Whole scenario itself is full of loopholes

And ur explanation made better sense 😂😂😂

Originally posted by: chatterbox

Ha ha ha. Actually it does make sense but whole scenario by jkr was nonsensical

Even later when Harry uses expecting patronum he thinks his father did but it was him

Whole scenario itself is full of loopholes

And ur explanation made better sense 😂😂😂

Harry couldn't have imagined there's another version of him out there at the same time since he was completely unaware of the existence of time turners. So his mind turned to the only other person he knew who had the same patronus - his father. People see / believe in wild things when in precarious situations... like the one Harry was in (having his soul sucked out by dementors). Which is why, I actually like that part.

He had just found out the truth about his parents deaths... met a few friends of his father... and then he sees the same patronus his father had (the stag being James' animagus form as well... something they talked about just a bit earlier.. in the Shrieking Shack). It makes complete sense for him to jump to that conclusion in a near delirious state... especially after Peter Pettigrew had apparently come back from the dead. It was probably wishful thinking on his part, combined with the strange circumstances... that led to this scenario.

In fact, him realizing later that it was his own patronus... and the disappointment he feels at not being able to meet his father (also accepting the fact that he's truly dead) was heartbreaking in it's own way .

Originally posted by: ssttuuttii

Such a beautiful post... I'm a little lost for words 🥺. I loved the tumblr post highlighting HP's message specially .

@Blue Agree with this part completely. I choose to ignore the so called legacy and haven't watched Fantastic Beasts for this very reason... would rather not tarnish the memories associated with the original series.

@Green The similarities between Harry and Neville are highlighted repeatedly... and the fact that Neville could've been the Chosen One too. In fact, Dumbledore himself states multiple times that Voldemort chose to go after Harry... and made the prophecy come true... but it could have potentially gone in a lot of different ways otherwise.

Crookshanks part is totally fanon though . Nothing in canon supports this theory... although nothing disproves it either... so we are free to interpret as we wish .

I like what you said about Ron... the movies did the Weasleys dirty... and unfortunately, that's been expanded upon further by the fandom . I like Ron too and consider him an integral part of the storyline... so it's disappointing to read the bashing on his character. It's one of the reasons I stopped reading HP FFs despite being so much in love with this series... the fandom is rabid... and the constant bashing on Ron / Ginny / Weasleys and Dumbledore... while trying to make other gray-black characters appear milky white is .

@Purple There is no doubt that the books were better. I like the movies too... but there's no way they can compete with the books . Looking forward to see how they take it up in the upcoming series... although I'm admittedly wary too. Aahhh... even if it's not done well, at least we will always have the books to go back to .

Thanks again for this wonderful post. Always happy to come across like minded HP fans .

Love,

Stuti

Bold- I totally agree on this part... Ron is one of my most fav characters in the series but the movies reduced his character to just comic relief. Also there are various instances in the movies where his lines are given to Hermione. The movies kinda show him as a sidekick rather than a best mate to Harry.

Even Ginny.. she's such a badass with sass and an athletic personality in the book but imo in the movies they've just shown her as a mere Love interest kinda character.

Also there's one thing I've seen in some FFs that people ship Draco and Hermione which simply doesn't make sense.. I mean Harry-Hermione is understandable, but this is smth rly crazy!

Originally posted by: HeirOfSlytherin

Bold- I totally agree on this part... Ron is one of my most fav characters in the series but the movies reduced his character to just comic relief. Also there are various instances in the movies where his lines are given to Hermione. The movies kinda show him as a sidekick rather than a best mate to Harry.

Even Ginny.. she's such a badass with sass and an athletic personality in the book but imo in the movies they've just shown her as a mere Love interest kinda character.

Also there's one thing I've seen in some FFs that people ship Draco and Hermione which simply doesn't make sense.. I mean Harry-Hermione is understandable, but this is smth rly crazy!

Hermione in the movies is god-tier. They didn't only give her Ron's lines but even Harry's. For example, in the books, it was Harry who suggested using the dragon to exit Gringotts's but in the movies, she was the one to jump onto the dragon in a badass move . I mean, I'm all for females being powerful but can we stick to canon characterizations please? Hermione is afraid of flying... even on brooms... she didn't like flying on a friendly Hippogriff... so her jumping onto the back of a ferocious dragon by herself makes no sense. On the other hand, Harry has experience with dragons... and is also far better at thinking on his feet.

Now, if it had been Ginny doing that instead (if she were present during that scene)... it would be more understandable... because like you said, she is badass, bold and athletic... someone who likes flying... and probably much more okay with the presence of dragons because of her brother Charlie.

Not that I support giving one character's lines / achievements to another... but it is probably unavoidable when trying to adapt a long book with many dialogs into a succinct movie. At least, they should have tried to balance it out and stay true to their personalities instead of making one character all-powerful and the other a tag-along .

I will never be able to comprehend the insanity that is Dramione... or even understand those that ship Hermione with Harry. Harry is shown to be irritated with her plenty of times and his behavior makes it clear that he thinks of her as a sibling - one you love and can't do without... but are also fighting with all the time. On the other hand, Hermione is consistently shown to be frightened of Harry's mood swings, his temper, etc. The fact that they barely manage to have any conversations when Ron isn't present is highlighted throughout the books (in Goblet of Fire, Half-Blood Prince and in Deathly Hallows).

On the other hand, Ron and Hermione are shown to be skirting around each other for a loooong time... even dense Harry had picked onto the cues and is aware of something brewing between them. While reading the books, Ron and Hermione were like the two characters who you know will end up together but also know they will take a long time reaching there. They take the scenic route, backtrack multiple times, go off on side quests... but you know they're meant to be. In fact, I've heard of people being surprised when they kissed in the end... but for me, it was a moment of "Oh Finally!!". A long awaited culmination of what had been going on for years.

Similarly, Harry being attracted to Ginny once she overcomes her shyness makes sense to me. I don't necessarily believe in types... but if Harry was interested in a particular type of girl, Ginny fits the bill. Harry's first crush Cho was pretty in a conventional way, popular, outgoing, good at sports, etc... everything Ginny is too. In addition, she is tougher, rarely weepy (Harry doesn't like crying girls and doesn't know what to do with them. Insensitive? Yes... but that's just how he is) and enjoys his particular brand of dark humor. She is practical and fierce, unafraid of arguing or standing up against him... but also shown to be fairly understanding like when she doesn't question his decision to breakup... or when she knows the trio are leaving Hogwarts and going on an unknown quest. But, she didn't just sit back, she decided to take helm of the DA (along with Neville and Luna) and fight from within Hogwarts.

I like her character in the books and just like Ron's, will be forever disappointed about how they didn't do justice to her in the movies.

Sorry for the long reply. Couldn't help venting out some frustrations over this... and also appreciating book Weasleys more.

No offense meant to anyone who ships Dramione, Harmony, or anyone else. These are my views (which also happen to align to canon... luckily for me). But fandoms are the place to explore and give free reign to your imaginations... so everyone is allowed to ship whoever they want ✌🏼.