A Jewish human rights organization asks Amazon to remove Bawaal - Page 7

Originally posted by: Phosphorus

Hey Clochette

I don't think there was anything wrong with your post.

These days you can't criticize Israel without the label 'anti-semitic' and all the oh so mighty portrayal of freedom of speech goes outta window 😆

Holocaust was a terrible thing to have happened but racial and ethnic cleansing has been happening all over the world and still now, but hardly any of those garner a reaction as strong as Holocaust.

Originally posted by: LazyBiing

But that’s not at all the case here. I will join you in criticizing Israel because some of the things they are doing to the Palestine people is indefensible but that doesn’t make this movie ok. It’s insanely insensitive and I’m dumbfounded by the fact that people are actually defending it. How’s this even happening 😬

I haven't watched the movie. So, defending is out of question.

And while I don't think I will personally think we have all a bit of Hitler inside of us, but if somehow someone names him while depicting how evil is still dominant within us, I don't think that warrants a meltdown and outrage and obviously not anti semitic tag. Insensitive yes, antisemitic, hell no.

Thanks for understanding 😊

The makers should have been more clear, probably, that Hitler has become a synonym for the destructive devil in us.

I've studied this time of German history to understand why such an atrocity like the 3rd Reich could have happened in the first way.

I had already studied other historical crimes that mankind did to mankind and it's always - without any exception - due to the bad that resides in human being, and mostly to greed...all kind of greed except the positive greed for learning and understanding.

The movie talks about this devastating greed that - if enabled and even rewarded - can become bigger and bigger and inflate the feeling of power so much that all kind of excuses are made to justify an amount of evil that never can be rectified.

Every human being has to decide how to react...and I found that a huge number of the people didn't succomb to the greed and the evil and defended the good despite the danger for their life...individually or by building like-minded groups, but still as a result of a personal decision for the good in us.

I'm very sensitive to the subject...so why didn't I see this kind of comparison so many pretend to have seen.

I saw a man who - for egoistic/narcissistic reasons - made a journey to give to his students via videomessage history lessons and took his wife with him as a pretext (bettering the marriage) to get the money from his banker-father.

And this man - through what he learned during the journey and with his wife's help - changed...inside and outside. The spectator acompanies this learning - through the words spoken and the acting.

Why did I see that (as I read the subtitles) and so many others saw/heard something else?

I really wonder...Is it easier to see a comparison one can condemn than a learning process one can follow?

Originally posted by: Clochette

The movie talks about this devastating greed that - if enabled and even rewarded - can become bigger and bigger and inflate the feeling of power so much that all kind of excuses are made to justify an amount of evil that never can be rectified.

Every human being has to decide how to react...and I found that a huge number of the people didn't succomb to the greed and the evil and defended the good despite the danger for their life...individually or by building like-minded groups, but still as a result of a personal decision for the good in us.

Okay I'm beginning to see where people like Nitesh and yourself are drawing false equivalence. Hitler was greedy for sure, IN addition to being genocidal, racist, white supremacist, and antisemitic. Most people that remember Holocaust often forget that not just Jews but blacks, gays, physically and mentally disabled people, roma and sinti people were also persecuted in large numbers.

When you separate the ONLY greedy part of him because he had set himself to annex Poland and Russia, you are effectively absolving him of his other evils like racism, white supremacism and what not. Any person, historical or otherwise, is the sum of all parts of themselves - you cannot pick and choose one part of themselves that suits your narrative and quash others that do not, especially if the monstrosity of their actions is as big as Hitler's. This is the same sort of false equivalence that many studying British colonialism in India do. They point out how the British colonialism was not all bad because they also build the railways and other infrastructure. When you say this you're absolving the other far reaching effects of colonialism - like colourism, resource drain, racism, the multitudes of famines, starvation, non-livable wages, unfair taxes etc.

So, when you see a movie that uses the Holocaust and Hitler's greed to draw a comparison with its central character and their relationship to their wife just on the basis that Ajju is greedy, you're effectively saying that "Look, Hitler was a greedy man and that ALONE is the reason for the Holocaust", which is obviously not.

Secondly, Hitler's greed alone is not comparable to Ajju's greed for desire to maintain outward appearances. It is not a fair parallel because neither is Ajju trying to annex land nor is he a genocidal maniac. I mean comparison between Putin and Hitler seems more suitable and even that is far reaching. Would you compare Alia's greed or ambition to snatch roles from other actresses to Hitler's greed for land? No. Because you see how idiotic and ignorant it sounds and realise that it is a false equivalence.

Man, I hope you get why people are up in arms about your defense of this movie now, because that is some long essay that I've typed.

Dear, I genuinely appreciate that you take me serious although not having the same opinion.

However there is something I can't do here...I can't - as much as I would like - elaborate about all the mechanism that enabled the happenings during the 3rd Reich because, frankly, Hitler is one of the least important people...basically, he is a highly inflated balloon- kept alive and self-important in a castle...with dogs and a joke of a relationship and well-trained servants.

I wonder if he even realised how much his megalomania was used by hundreds of thousands of 'Hitlers' who used what politics gave them full hand to satisfy their devils in them.

And no, greed (with all its aims like wealth, sex, position, importance, power etc.) is just one of the things the devil in us tries to make florish in a negative way...there is also envy, self-importance, self-righteousness, self- delusion, fear of loosing (wealth, position, power etc.).

Do you really think that one man alone - with his hate - could be made responsible for the incredibly cruel treatment of millions of people (Jews, dissidents, gypsies, disabled etc).???

If one wants, one could learn some basics from the movie Bawaal. It's said in the movie...with simple words...understandable to everyone who wants to understand...if you want, I could repeat words like:

"We have no such swords hanging over our heads yet we are not happy..."

It makes no sense if I go on and on and on... or does it?

We have to filter out the noise, and temper-down the emotions. What we will find out when we take a deep breath is ... All types of dogged discrimination & hate is bad in all it's forms. 👍🏼

Originally posted by: rckRadhe

We have to filter out the noise, and temper-down the emotions. What we will find out when we take a deep breath is ... All types of dogged discrimination & hate is bad in all it's forms. 👍🏼

Jews run the world. You cannot upset them

Originally posted by: -raVen-

Jews run the world. You cannot upset them