~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 33

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Vyasa arranged alliance between Panchal and Pandavas, How does this support Theory of Draupadi being Ekanamsa? Even if he knew Draupadi from childhood, how does this support her being Ekanamsa?
The question is about her being Ekanamsa, that’s the theory right?

Yadavas didn’t participate is not mentioned also I have read so many discussions about Yadavas not liking Krishna or not supporting him, now in this they support him when they could try to get support of Panchal?

Then, one after another, those kings exhibited their valour for Krishna. But the bow was so strong that with all their strength, they could not string it. The firm wood of the bow recoiled and flung those brave rulers of men on the ground. They failed in their desire and could be seen on the ground, miserable and broken in spirit. That firm bow caused them pain and shattered their bracelets and earrings. Having lost hopes of obtaining Krishna, that assembly of kings was crestfallen. In that assembly, those kings who boasted of noble birth then became objects of derision. Kunti’s brave son Jishnu then arose, wishing to string the bow and place an arrow on it

See, People who participated are not mentioned, we are assuming that Yadavas didn’t participate

None of the Yadavas present were😆 kings . They didn't try.

In case you wanted, there is a list of people who tried in KMG:

Then those princes--Karna, Duryodhana, Salwa, Salya, Aswatthaman, Kratha, Sunitha, Vakra, the ruler of Kalinga and Banga, Pandya, Paundra, the ruler of Videha, the chief of the Yavanas, and many other sons and grandsons of kings,--sovereigns of territories with eyes like lotus-petals,--one after another began to exhibit prowess for (winning) that maiden of unrivalled beauty. Adorned with crowns, garlands, bracelets, and other ornaments, endued with mighty arms, possessed of prowess and vigour and bursting with strength and energy, those princes could not, even in imagination, string that bow of extraordinary stiffness.

"And (some amongst) those kings in exerting with swelling lips each according to his strength, education, skill, and energy,--to string that bow, were tossed on the ground and lay perfectly motionless for some time. Their strength spent and their crowns and garlands loosened from their persons, they began to pant for breath and their ambition of winning that fair maiden was cooled. Tossed by that tough bow, and their garlands and bracelets and other ornaments disordered, they began to utter exclamations of woe. And that assemblage of monarchs, their hope of obtaining Krishna gone, looked sad and woeful. And beholding the plight of those monarchs, Karna that foremost of all wielders of the bow went to where the bow was, and quickly raising it strung it and placed the arrows on the string. And beholding the son of Surya--Karna of the Suta tribe--like unto fire, or Soma, or Surya himself, resolved to shoot the mark, those foremost of bowmen--the sons of Pandu--regarded the mark as already shot and brought down upon the ground. But seeing Karna, Draupadi loudly said, 'I will not select a Suta for my lord.' Then Karna, laughing in vexation and casting glance at the Sun, threw aside the bow already drawn to a circle.

Then when all those Kshatriyas gave up the task, the heroic king of the

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[paragraph continues] Chedis--mighty as Yama (Pluto) himself--the illustrious and determined Sisupala, the son of Damaghosa, in endeavouring to string the bow, himself fell upon his knees on the ground. Then king Jarasandha endued with great strength and powers, approaching the bow stood there for some moment, fixed and motionless like a mountain. Tossed by the bow, he too fell upon his knees on the ground, and rising up, the monarch left the amphitheatre for (returning to) his kingdom. Then the great hero Salya, the king of Madra, endued with great strength, in endeavouring to string the bow fell upon his knees on the ground. At last when in that assemblage consisting of highly respectable people, all the monarchs had become subjects of derisive talk that foremost of heroes--Jishnu, the son of Kunti--desired to string the bow and placed the arrows on the bow-string.'"

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I gave you all the details about Ekanamsa with my analysis. You're free to do your own.

Perhaps you believe they popped out of the fire. If that's the case, it's religion, and I don't debate religion.

If you don't believe they could've popped out of the fire, then they came from somewhere. That they weren't Drupada's is pretty clear.

I gave you my analysis on where they came from, and I believe it's well supported by MBh and HV. Not rehashing the points for the nth time.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Biologically speaking, people who are born together are not called twins, they have to be born from same pregnancy to be called twins, how can there be adult birth? It is very clear that they were twins but we are unnecessarily complicating things

They are called children of Drupad only, I haven’t read a para where they are not called children of Drupad and Prishati. Agni birth could have been propaganda like Pandava’s father being God, Here Drupad and his wife are mentioned as parents

I do think there’s possibility of adoption too but again what suggest that she was Ekanamsa?

————————

I just need something authentic to believe this theory, I am not trying to prove anyone wrong

😆 No. They weren't Drupada's. Mainly because a prince and heir cannot be hid until adulthood AND get training at the same time. Someone would've blabbed. Plus, Vyasa's involvement definitely tells the reader he knew more about them than Drupada.

Panchali and Dhrishtadyumna came from Agni. That Drupada adopted them is very clear. Why wouldn't they be then known as his children? Just like Karna was known as Radheya.

I think we've gone over the same topic a few dozen times already 😆.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

😆 No. They weren't Drupada's. Mainly because a prince and heir cannot be hid until adulthood AND get training at the same time. Someone would've blabbed. Plus, Vyasa's involvement definitely tells the reader he knew more about them than Drupada.

Panchali and Dhrishtadyumna came from Agni. That Drupada adopted them is very clear. Why wouldn't they be then known as his children? Just like Karna was known as Radheya.

I think we've gone over the same topic a few dozen times already 😆.

Because Pandavas and Karna are called sons of their real father too, I don’t see that when it comes to Draupadi and Dristadumya, as I said I do believe in adoption theory but can you provide any text to link Draupadi with Ekanamsa?

I have given citations for my belief

You said they are not called Twins in text, when I quoted it, None is ready to believe what is actually written in Mahabharata that too in BORI CE, I have stopped quoting from KMG because most of the things are removed by BORI CE as interpolation

The fire birth thing is not mentioned there, It is said they are born after a sacrifice not fire

I just need citations to believe it, I am not saying that your analysis is wrong, I just need something authentic to believe it. I am not trying to offend you, trust me, I am just not able to make sense of everything

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Because Pandavas and Karna are called sons of their real father too, I don’t see that when it comes to Draupadi and Dristadumya, as I said I do believe in adoption theory but can you provide any text to link Draupadi with Ekanamsa?

I have given citations for my belief

You said they are not called Twins in text, when I quoted it, None is ready to believe what is actually written in Mahabharata that too in BORI CE, I have stopped quoting from KMG because most of the things are removed by BORI CE as interpolation

The fire birth thing is not mentioned there, It is said they are born after a sacrifice not fire

I just need citations to believe it, I am not saying that your analysis is wrong, I just need something authent to believe it. I am not trying to offend you, trust me, I am just not able to make sense of everything

You really feel Indra, Surya, Pavan, Dharmaraj, Ashwini Kumar were theirs biological father? They definitely weren't. Just as they were stated to be from Niyog with gods, Dhristhdhyum Draupadi were called born out of fire/Yagyavedi!

They were called Yagyaseni

Just as the names of real biological fathers of Pandavas n Karna never taken same for Draupadi n Dhristhdhyum. They weren't Niyog children to have two parents

P.S. here they are called to be born from sacrifice so that's exactly their mothers womb as per the epic, them being out of that happens simultaneously so they are twins.

Epic never mentions they were born as kids or when they were born as kids. This is the only birth of theirs mentioned

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Because Pandavas and Karna are called sons of their real father too, I don’t see that when it comes to Draupadi and Dristadumya, as I said I do believe in adoption theory but can you provide any text to link Draupadi with Ekanamsa?

I have given citations for my belief

You said they are not called Twins in text, when I quoted it, None is ready to believe what is actually written in Mahabharata that too in BORI CE, I have stopped quoting from KMG because most of the things are removed by BORI CE as interpolation

The fire birth thing is not mentioned there, It is said they are born after a sacrifice not fire

I just need citations to believe it, I am not saying that your analysis is wrong, I just need something authentic to believe it. I am not trying to offend you, trust me, I am just not able to make sense of everything

if they were born to drupad only, after sacrifice, they could not be born after the pandavas defeated drupad in war. drupad wanted a son after that incident. And adults also cannot be born they have to be born as infants. so i guess both were adopted as adults. Maybe they dint have original parents or no one knew of who there were that is why they were only known as drupads children.

One thing ignoring the divine angle why did Nanda agree to give his newborn daughter to vasudeva and take krishna. the girl would either be killed or live without parents for the rest of her life. she dint go back to nand after kamsa released her right?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

You really feel Indra, Surya, Pavan, Dharmaraj, Ashwini Kumar were theirs biological father? They definitely weren't. Just as they were stated to be from Niyog with gods, Dhristhdhyum Draupadi were called born out of fire/Yagyavedi!

They were called Yagyaseni

Just as the names of real biological fathers of Pandavas n Karna never taken same for Draupadi n Dhristhdhyum. They weren't Niyog children to have two parents

P.S. here they are called to be born from sacrifice so that's exactly their mothers womb as per the epic, them being out of that happens simultaneously so they are twins.

Epic never mentions they were born as kids or when they were born as kids. This is the only birth of theirs mentioned

Drupad was called Yajnasena therefore Draupadi was called Yajnaseni

I even correlated this “Yajnaseni” to make sense of adoption through the Sage/priest who performed the sacrifice for Drupad, his name was “Yaja”, so I can understand Dristadumya and Draupadi being his kids

I don’t believe that Gods were father of Pandavas but they are called by name of their real father as per epic, right?
Just find me one citation where Draupadi and Dristadumya are called anything else than children of Drupad

Why didn’t Vyasa mention that Draupadi was Ekanamsa? He mentioned so many stupid things about her, why not this fact? Did he hint towards her being Ekanamsa in Mahabharata?

I am really trying very hard to make sense of this theory but I am failing, I’ll read it again someday maybe it will make sense to me

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Drupad was called Yajnasena therefore Draupadi was called Yajnaseni

I even correlated this “Yajnaseni” to make sense of adoption through the Sage/priest who performed the sacrifice for Drupad, his name was “Yaja”, so I can understand Dristadumya and Draupadi being his kids

I don’t believe that Gods were father of Pandavas but they are called by name of their real father as per epic, right?
Just find me one citation where Draupadi and Dristadumya are called anything else than children of Drupad

Why didn’t Vyasa mention that Draupadi was Ekanamsa? He mentioned so many stupid things about her, why not this fact? Did he hint towards her being Ekanamsa in Mahabharata?

I am really trying very hard to make sense of this theory but I am failing, I’ll read it again someday maybe it will make sense to me

As per the epic Drupad was their father, just as Kunti/Madri were the mother of Pandavas+Karna. So obviously there would be no other father of Dhristhdhyum/Draupadi.

As per the epic, Pandavas had two fathers, Pandu and the supposed god who did the Niyog, so they are called as the sons of Pandu as well as sons of the said god(Karna as son of Adhirath/Radha and Sun), as per the epic Draupadi and Dhristhdhyum were born from sacrificeal Firestand (Yagyavedi) so they are called Yagyaseni as it was the origin. As per the epic they had no other parent(neither biological nor adoptive nor legal), so obviously they will only be called children of Drupad.

However just as we know that the Pandavas+Karna were not the children of gods, we know that Draupadi n Dhristhdhyum couldn't be from the Yagyavedi, Pandavas and Karna had some biological father about whom we don't know because epic never says that they weren't the children of gods, similarly Draupadi n Dhristhdhyum had biological parents about whom we have no clue about since epic never admits they had one, they had simply popped out of the Vedi once.

Vyas didn't say about Ekanamsa being Draupadi(if she was the one) for the same respect he didn't tell us the. Name of biological dad.

Rest obviously this can't be said to be a 100% correct fact, it's just an assumption, basis SB n HVP. And the fact that Krishna was so close to Draupadi and Drupad before Swayamwar (so as to even give dowry for her), although he wasn't so earlier, because he never approached Panchal for support against Jarasangh

Ok. Where was Dhrishtadyumna when Drupada was being attacked in guru dakshina war? How did Dhrishtadyumna and Panchali stay hidden for so long?

There is no way they were biologically Drupada's without someone not knowing. In fact, Panchali at one point says she sat on her father's lap while her brother was being tutored by brahmanas. Clearly, both were seen by the teachers. They didn't grow up in a dungeon.

As FP pointed out, niyog children are KNOWN to have 2 fathers. Adopted children are known by their adoptive parents. Panchali's biological parents wren't documented. She and her brother are called children of Drupada because after adoption, yes, they were. What is so confusing about it?

Also, what is so confusing that they had a childhood before it? I gave you my reasons for thinking she was Ekanamsa, and I clearly said it was analysis. You're asking for citations, knowing already there is no such DIRECT citation in texts.

All I know is 2 fully grown humans cannot sprout out of the fire. Yes, yagya vedi has fire. And I gave my analysis.

At this point, we're simply going around in circles.

1. dhrist and drau come out of yagyavedi. Yagyavedi fire altar. The stage where the fire is lit and sacrifice made.

This yagyavedi is a sacred area where they keep the agnikund. The vessel in which fire is lit.

The things to be offered/donated are kept in the yagya vedi surrounding the agnikund.

This is a standard practice that you all must have noticed if no where else then in the Hindu traditional weddings.

Yagyavedi is today popularly known as mandap.

While.Dhrist is said to come out from rising flames. Drau is specifically mentioned as coming from the middle of the yagyavedi.

These two.kids. were sitting.on the mandap and came off it after it was over, duly sanctified and consecrated.

It was an adoption / consecration ceremony.

Honestly speaking an age gap of few years between them makes no difference in their overall appearance specially if the girl.is 13 and boy couple.of years older

It wouldnt make much differenxce to the story either if Drau is 16 or 19 at the time of marriage either.

Only undisputable fact in that entire yagya and fire ritual and dhrist drau appearance is that Drau had attained puberty. So she was definetly older than 12-13 amd dhrist may be same or older. Rest all are inferences, either based on magic or logic