~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 31

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I really don’t see the possibility of Draupadi being her unless there’s a direct correlation between these two, moreover she couldn’t be daughter of Nanda and Agnirasa simultaneously

It is mentioned that they were twins, where does it say that they weren’t equal in age?

Acc to HV and MBh, she was. I'm guessing Nanda belonged to Angirasa clan. Angirasa wasn't one person. Moreover, Agni is said to be Angirasa and vice versa. That explains the fire birth. There's quite enough hints that Ekanamsa/Kuhu was Panchali.

Just because everything was not a plan, it doesn't mean everything waa unplanned, either. Fact is Vyasa wanted an empire; that's clear in MBh. Fact is Krishna needed Jarasandha out; that is also clear. Fact is Vyasa couldn't build the empire without getting Jarasandha out; also clear in MBh.

To get Jarasandha out, they needed a Kuru-Panchal alliance. Krishna needed his own person in to ensure Yadava safety, and Pandavas weren't responding to his overtures as is clear in text.

Drupada needed a son as defense against further attacks by Drona. He went around to quite a few rishis before getting Dhrishtadyumna. His Agni origin strongly suggests he was Angirasa. Krishna was Ghora Angirasa's student. Narada, Vyasa's BFF, was Krishna's foster cousin. Chances are they conspired to place Dhrishtadyumna and Panchali in Panchal.

This part of the plan is easy enough because all parties would've known what to do.

I object to the idea of everything being a tussle between Vyasa and Krishna, with both keeping their respective plan a secret from others. Too many variables for that. Pandavas might have been nincompoops, but Panchali most definitely wasn't one. Actually, why would VYASA not have told her and Pandavas to watch out for Krishna?

The point being that actions have reactions unless the one doing the action/planning is alone in a vacuum. The lack of reaction from others should tell us either that they were all dumb puppets or that they were in on the plan or that sometimes, things are NOT planned.

Anyway, that's a point which has been beaten to death.

But yeah, the political alliance was planned. VYASA makes it clear when he goes to Pandavas before swayamvara. The only unanswered question is did Krishna know? I believe Krishna's actions before and after and his interactions with Panchali make it clear he not only did, he had a part in placing her in Panchal.

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

There r assuming that d grl who was daughter of nand yashoda , name kahu , is d same grl who was later known as draupadi . She was exchanged with krishna during birth .

Her fire birth is fake .

Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: Piteously embracing her daughter and crying, Devakī begged Kaṁsa for the child, but he was so cruel that he chastised her and forcibly snatched the child from her hands.

Having uprooted all relationships with his sister because of intense selfishness, Kaṁsa, who was sitting on his knees, grasped the newborn child by the legs and tried to dash her against the surface of a stone.

This is from srimad Bhagvatam which means the girl exchanged with krishna was actually killed by kamsa and was infact yogmaya.

Originally posted by: davis56

Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: Piteously embracing her daughter and crying, Devakī begged Kaṁsa for the child, but he was so cruel that he chastised her and forcibly snatched the child from her hands.

Having uprooted all relationships with his sister because of intense selfishness, Kaṁsa, who was sitting on his knees, grasped the newborn child by the legs and tried to dash her against the surface of a stone.

This is mentioned in the shrimad Bhagvatam , which means that the girl exchanged with krishna was actually yogmaya and was killed.

Acc 2 divinity she was yogmaya , but she was not killed

That was the problem Krishna had was Lack of support for him.

Ugrasena and Kansa were legitimate rulers.

Ugrasena came on the throne with popular support from all the tribes.

Shurasena was removed after he lost support of everyone. Leaders of other tribes (Andhaka, Bhoja) Leaders of his own tribes (Vrishnis like Satrajit and Akrura) as well as citizens.

And after him Kansa. Who till Narada did the false propaganda was everyone's favourite. And many people refused to believe that propaganda

In Krishna's lifetime not many actually believed that Kansa or Jarasand or Narkasur or Banasur or Shishupal or Duryodhan were bad guys.

It was a fight for throne as far as everyone was concerned. And people sided either with their relatives or those who they thought served their self interest better.

Its around Parikshit's and Janmejaya / Vajra's time the deification started. Whitewashing of Krishna as God to so that everything he did became divine will and anyone opposing him became evil. Rakshasa and Asura became a label for evil.

Parikshit and JJ aligned with Vaishnavas and Krishna became Vishnu avatar. Arjun became a Nara avatar. Basically avatar of another vishnu avatar. Till then everyone worshipped Shiva and Devi. Including Krishna and Pandavas. But after Vaishnava gained royal patronage. All Shiva worshippers and those opposed to Krishna became suddenly avatar of an asur. All rakshasa refused to worship Vishnu. They were mostly Devi devotees. So they became evil, propaganda started that they all were bad guys by default.

This had started before Krishna's time. But it gained influence with him. His adoption of Vishnu symbols was one such strategy. And Parikshit JJ made a cult.out of it.

Classic example being Ghatothkach. That guy had never done one bad thing in his life. Other than refusing Vishnu worship. Krishna actually says the truth that at somepoint he would have had to kill Ghatothkach if he had not died for Arjun in the war, because he was persecuting Brahamans. He never did that. He just refused any patronage for vishnu worship in his teritory that is all. Vaishnavas were chased out from his area of influence.

He needed Arjun as a warrior and Yudhishtir atleast till Rajasuya as an acceptable face to gain a coalition that he would take over at a later date when he got rid of his enemies.

Bur Yudhi was never a guy he wanted to be emperor. He was at the most a throne warmer for Krishna

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Drona trained Dristadumya, Drupad sent him to Drona means Dristadumya needed training, Why would he do that if Dristadumya was already trained and to get him Drupad was arm twisted into marrying Draupadi to Yudi?

They are mentioned as twins, Twins have same age like Nakul and Sehdev

We are assuming everything else, The text is specific About them being twins

There is a thing called Snatak and then a Stanakottar.

Weren't Bheem and Duryodhan trained by Drona? Didn't they go to learn from Balram? Karna to Parashuram? Drona was trained by Bharadwaj rishi didn't he go to Parashuram?

Dhristhdhyum was not just someone who needed to be skilled but also someone who was ready to do a Brahmhatya

Twins are who are born at a time not who are born together. Nakul Sahdev were born together and were hence twins but they were born as infants so had same age.

As per the epic Dhristhdhyum and Draupadi were born together at a time from the fire so were twins. But they were adults and definitely not at the same stage of age

Originally posted by: davis56

Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: Piteously embracing her daughter and crying, Devakī begged Kaṁsa for the child, but he was so cruel that he chastised her and forcibly snatched the child from her hands.

Having uprooted all relationships with his sister because of intense selfishness, Kaṁsa, who was sitting on his knees, grasped the newborn child by the legs and tried to dash her against the surface of a stone.

This is from srimad Bhagvatam which means the girl exchanged with krishna was actually killed by kamsa and was infact yogmaya.

Harivamsa says she was not killed. From a non divine perspective, there is no yogmaya. Kansa let her live because he liked her, and she appears to have been well-treated in Mathura.

And I believe even Bhagavatham says the girl escaped and waa NOT killed.

Originally posted by: davis56

Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: Piteously embracing her daughter and crying, Devakī begged Kaṁsa for the child, but he was so cruel that he chastised her and forcibly snatched the child from her hands.

Having uprooted all relationships with his sister because of intense selfishness, Kaṁsa, who was sitting on his knees, grasped the newborn child by the legs and tried to dash her against the surface of a stone.

This is from srimad Bhagvatam which means the girl exchanged with krishna was actually killed by kamsa and was infact yogmaya.

Tried to dash, but if you read the next line she escapes

Someone asked about atheism.

You don't have to be atheist to believe in physics and biology.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Someone asked about atheism.

You don't have to be atheist to believe in physics and biology.

I guess that was me.

I asked it to chiii because of her view of krishna being a human.

I was just curious other than that there's no reason for that question

I am aware that thinking practically and scientifically does not indicate one's lack of belief in God.

She is my dad's side family diety. Kuldevi. We call her parmeshwari.

But my dad is a Vishnu devotee. So was my mom.