Things which made you uncomfortable in Mahabharata - Page 4

Originally posted by: Wistfulness

You mean his elimination on day 10. I feel it was fair and didn't involve deceit. Shikhandi was used on his own suggestion and the impact was bare minimum.

Moreover, nobody in the whole epic got the kind of glorious demise he received.

Yes, elimination. Sorry 😆

In a way yes you are right, he himself wanted it but I think Arjun could have tried to defeat him by his own powers, that would give the same result. Shikhandi was needed so he doesn't fire back at Shikhandi, which I think is unfair.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Yes, elimination. Sorry 😆

In a way yes you are right, he himself wanted it but I think Arjun could have tried to defeat him by his own powers, that would give the same result. Shikhandi was needed so he doesn't fire back at Shikhandi, which I think is unfair.

I don't understand this Shikhandi theory, If Bheeshma couldn't hit him, why didn't people around Bheeshma do it?

Thus all the Pandavas, placing Sikhandin before them pierced Bhishma in that battle repeatedly surrounding him on all sides.

Then the diadem-decked (Arjuna), excited with wrath, and placing Sikhandin ahead rushed at Bhishma and cut off the latter's bow. Thereupon mighty car-warriors, seven in number, viz., Drona and Kritavarman, and Jayadratha the ruler of the Sindhus, and Bhurisravas, and Sala, and Salya, and Bhagadatta could not brook that act of Arjuna. Inflamed with rage, they rushed at him. Indeed, those mighty car-warriors, invoking into existence celestial weapons, fell with great wrath upon that son of Pandu, and covered him with their arrows

And he (Shi) struck Bhishma's charioteer with other shafts, and cut off the latter's standard with one shaft. Then the son of Ganga took up another bow that was tougher. That even was cut off by Phalguni with three sharp shafts. Indeed, that chastiser of foes, viz., Arjuna, who was capable of drawing the bow with even his left hand, excited with rage, one after another, cut off all the bows that Bhishma took up. Then Bhishma, whose bows were thus cut off, excited with rage, and licking the corners of his mouth, took up a dart that was capable of riving a hill. In rage he hurled it at Phalguni's car.

1 How can everyone keep Shikhandi in front of them?

2 There were 7 warriors collectively outranking Arjuna trying to stop him, they could have killed Shikhandi, if he was acting as a human shield, apparently they uses celestial weapons and covered Arjuna with their arrows

3 Bheeshma was picking up weapons but Arjuna cut off all of his bows then he attacked Arjuna with a dart, so its just weird that Arjuna killed him because he couldn't hit Shikhandi

^^^ Not sure about this but till the time Bheeshm was on the field he didn't allow any Adharma. Shikhandi if was considered a female by Bheeshm then he wouldn't allow any Kaurav army man to attack him.

Just my assumption

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

^^^ Not sure about this but till the time Bheeshm was on the field he didn't allow any Adharma. Shikhandi if was considered a female by Bheeshm then he wouldn't allow any Kaurav army man to attack him.

Just my assumption

7 warriors collectively outranked Arjuna attacked him together wasn't it against rule of war?

Moreover, Bheeshma was attacking Arjuna too, he wasn't incapacitated because of Shikhandi

Originally posted by: NoraSM

7 warriors collectively outranked Arjuna attacked him together wasn't it against rule of war?

Moreover, Bheeshma was attacking Arjuna too, he wasn't incapacitated because of Shikhandi

As per the edit you gave it was all the Pandavas hiding behind Shikhandi.

I am myself confused now

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I don't understand this Shikhandi theory, If Bheeshma couldn't hit him, why didn't people around Bheeshma do it?

Thus all the Pandavas, placing Sikhandin before them pierced Bhishma in that battle repeatedly surrounding him on all sides.

Then the diadem-decked (Arjuna), excited with wrath, and placing Sikhandin ahead rushed at Bhishma and cut off the latter's bow. Thereupon mighty car-warriors, seven in number, viz., Drona and Kritavarman, and Jayadratha the ruler of the Sindhus, and Bhurisravas, and Sala, and Salya, and Bhagadatta could not brook that act of Arjuna. Inflamed with rage, they rushed at him. Indeed, those mighty car-warriors, invoking into existence celestial weapons, fell with great wrath upon that son of Pandu, and covered him with their arrows

And he (Shi) struck Bhishma's charioteer with other shafts, and cut off the latter's standard with one shaft. Then the son of Ganga took up another bow that was tougher. That even was cut off by Phalguni with three sharp shafts. Indeed, that chastiser of foes, viz., Arjuna, who was capable of drawing the bow with even his left hand, excited with rage, one after another, cut off all the bows that Bhishma took up. Then Bhishma, whose bows were thus cut off, excited with rage, and licking the corners of his mouth, took up a dart that was capable of riving a hill. In rage he hurled it at Phalguni's car.

1 How can everyone keep Shikhandi in front of them?

2 There were 7 warriors collectively outranking Arjuna trying to stop him, they could have killed Shikhandi, if he was acting as a human shield, apparently they uses celestial weapons and covered Arjuna with their arrows

3 Bheeshma was picking up weapons but Arjuna cut off all of his bows then he attacked Arjuna with a dart, so its just weird that Arjuna killed him because he couldn't hit Shikhandi

He said he won't FIGHT Shikhandi, no harm in fighting Arjun. I think Arjun's rath was in front with Shikhandi, and the others were behind him trying to attack him. Bhishma did shoot back at others. I was talking about this in another thread too with citations,I'll link that here

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/b-r-chopras-mahabharat/5161606/who-do-you-think-is-main-villian-of-mahabharat

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

He said he won't FIGHT Shikhandi, no harm in fighting Arjun. I think Arjun's rath was in front with Shikhandi, and the others were behind him trying to attack him. Bhishma did shoot back at others. I was talking about this in another thread too with citations,I'll link that here

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/b-r-chopras-mahabharat/5161606/who-do-you-think-is-main-villian-of-mahabharat

I have replied there

If he could fight with Arjuna and died fighting with Arjuna then how was it unfair?

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I have replied there

If he could fight with Arjuna and died fighting with Arjuna then how was it unfair?

He could not fight Arjun, Shikhandi was a proper shield. It's clear that it was only a few times he could make way for his weapons towards Arjun so that if doesn't touch Shikhandi.

If he could easily fight Arjun, there was no use of Shikhandi at all.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

He could not fight Arjun, Shikhandi was a proper shield. It's clear that it was only a few times he could make way for his weapons towards Arjun so that if doesn't touch Shikhandi.

If he could easily fight Arjun, there was no use of Shikhandi at all.

Shikhandi was on his chariot, Not on Arjuna's chariot, Shikhandi did no major damage to Bheeshma, it is written Bheeshma didn't even feel pain from Shikhandi's arrows

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

This is not today's day and age. Here, lying was not considered as simple but an immoral act as per my knowledge. I still don't get how Bheeshma can say Shakuni cheated without any concrete evidence? And that would be wrong, I myself would not have accepted if someone say I cheated. There's no proof he used unfair means. I don't think saying why didn't he lie and falsely accuse Shakuni a right way to deal with it.

Also, saying Shakuni cheated here is letting Yudhishthir go and letting him be innocent because oh well he was cheated, that makes hima VICTIM. Which he was NOT. Yudhishthir lost everything because of his own greed and addiction, and Bhishma would let him go by saying no Shakuni cheated is plain unfair.

About what he said about morality, how do you know the tone was of justification? To me the tone clearly laments about the fact that morality is written by the strong men. He is actually lamenting it.

Also, NO ONE did anything in dice hall. Dhritarashtra is the King, why is he not being blamed? How is only Bheeshma's act being picked here?

Krishna lists 4 kinds of lies which are not immoral. A lie to an enemy and lie to save life are both included.

So it wasn't considered immoral to lie.

When his granddaughter-in-law was being assaulted and he could've stopped it by saying Shakuni cheated, and he turned around and insisted otherwise, the most charitable view the world can take is Bheeshma was selfish to the point of letting someone die so he could protect his reputation.

As for lamenting, that's a charitable view. But it was coming from a man who had the power to stop Dhritharashtra from being king, power to partition the kingdom, and later, power to dictate terms to Suyodhana re: war. Bheeshma was not a helpless man.

Dhritharashtra can be blamed, too. One doesn't preclude the other. But the king IS usually considered a villain, and Bheeshma gets away with the helpless old man act.

His talk with Yudhishtira in Anushasana Parva is eye-popping, esp the recommendation tonpunish wayward women by having them eaten by dogs. Dwapar Yuga Kim Jong Un.