A few things about Draupadi, How true are they? - Page 7

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Exactly it was well thought of political alliance where both the parties pandava and panchali + krishna had their own role to play. This explains why drapaudi was silent during the potter house thing. Because otherwise for someone like drapaudi to remain silent is bit indigestible i think both sri and narayan or panchali and govind (sorry couldn't help) were aware that potter house scene is just an act but i don't pandavas knew that entire Swamyvaar set up was to seek them out

Plus as i have said earlier as long as long as there was enough love and respect in their marriage polyandrous is not wrong

Act/setup for who? 😕 adding more points in the list of reasons for Drupad and son? Or to provide better drama-ground for the story

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

Act/setup for who? 😕 adding more points in the list of reasons for Drupad and son? Or to provide better drama-ground for the story

Vyasa had already informed the pandavas about drapaudi s previous birth and then they go win drapaudi s hand in marriage so that mother s order thing was an act set up by pandavas for drapaudi to accept polyandrous marriage but drapaudi was intelligent woman her not been able to look through the ploy is bit indigestible that s why i think that entire Swamyvaar thing was krishna+drapaudi+panchal s set up was to seek pandavas out as they were probably aware of them being alive. And this pandava+panchal was not only a profiting alliance for pandavas to go claim their rights a.k.a throne for yudhishtra but also was profitable for panchal+ krishna to have an alliance with kuru heirs i.e, Pandavas

It was pure political move from both the sides and that us why it worked well without much friction from either side

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

I know Vyasa visiting the PS but the scene did not have drau thus it was manipulated. I wrote it totally in context of Draupadi's knowledge then considering Vyasa did not have a secret meeting with her which he forgot to mention.

@B- for Draupadi?

Anyways exactly why I said ku-yu manipulated the scene for Drau, why not tell her the birth story on their way home?

Yu because he did the declaration part. And yes I do believe that polyandry was not solely brainchild of Vyasa something like "because it had to be done" there were human emotions involved too. They may not be the primary reasons but they were reasons nonetheless

The text says polyandry WAS completely Vyasa's brainchild.Even on their way to swayamvar, Pandavas, including Arjuna, knew that was the aim because Vyasa told them so. It was not cooked up Yudhishtira or Kunti.

This much has textual evidence.

Drama at potter's was clearly just that: drama. ie, if it was not interpolation. If real, it was a show because Kunti already knew. Arjuna already knew. Yudhishtira already knew. The question comes why for which there is no evidence. My best guess would be because they didn't think Panchali already knew and needed some excuse to convince her.

And Vyasa didn't forget to mention it to Panchali. In my 3rd link, he tells Drupada that Shri (Panchali) already knew. She was crying in the scene when she lured Shakra/Arjuna to Mahadeva, so I imagine she wasn't thrilled about it, but she already knew. Hari/Krishna also knew.

This is again textual evidence, not conjecture.

One last time: there is evidence in text that all the participants in the show except Drupada and Dhrishtadyumna already knew.

It was not Kunti's fault or Yudhishtira's fault in the least. I can't believe I'm defending Yudhishtira😆, but facts are facts.

🙆‍♀️

1 If one believes the theory of Vyasa telling Yudhishtira, Kunti and Arjun about Draupadi's past life and encouraging them for her marriage with all of them, then they are not mere humans, one has to believe in divinity and involvement of God

2 If Draupadi, Krushna and Her father knew about it, again they are not mere humans as they possess power to see past and future, but why go for Swayamvar when they could have simply married Draupadi to 5 of them?

3 Why didn't they tell Draupadi the truth instead of plotting and putting up a false narrative in front of her? Vyasa told her father but didn't think she has the right to know the truth

4 People who manipulated her into marrying all of them 🤧 are not righteous, Even if she knew beforehand, Yudhishtira, Kunti and Arjun lied to her and tried to manipulate her, What kind of relationship is this?

5 if We are believing past life etc then again Draupadi being a virgin every morning or every year doesn't really sells the story of sexual desire of a woman, she most likely had to go through same pain every time and 🙃🙃🙃🙃 it doesn't sound nice

The whole story doesn't represent Draupadi going in this marriage willingly, it doesn't tell that she wanted 5 husbands, it tells that she had to marry them because of her past or because of Arjun's mother.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Can you elaborate on Subhadra being Arjun's favorite wife? Is it just an opinion or he said it?

The real heir is very tricky, King's eldest son being the next King is how it works from my understanding and if you follow the pattern of British Monarchy. Queen's eldest son Prince Charles is next in the line, It will Be Prince William after Prince Charles, Charles has two other brothers, I am not sure if they have kids but I don't think they can sit on the Throne.

Duryodhana was right in asking for the Kingdom so was Yudhishtira but Duryodhana resorted to treachery which led to his downfall.

When Arjun married Subhadra, Duryodhana was crown prince and heir of his father while Yudhishtira was King. I was comparing Arjun and Duryodhana's status because Subhadra, obviously didn't know about their ethical and moral standards. Now, it's not like Arjun and his brothers were best of husbands considering the whole gambling fiasco and Draupadi's humiliation, I won't say he was righteous and his warrior thing didn't work out well for his wife, maybe he didn't stand up for her because she wasn't his favorite and things would have been different for Subhadra.

About Duryodhana vs Arjun, let's just agree to disagree. It was my opinion that Arjun was a better man than Duryodhana & I still believe so. Doesn't matter if Duryodhana could win whole world and become the King of it with the help of Shakuni's planning plotting. I will still place Arjun, for that matter, any Pandav, above him. It's my opinion. It's okay if you feel differently 😅

As for Subhadra Arjun lovestory, I need to clarify at first that by love, I don't mean love as we know it today. Back in those days, amidst all the polygamous relations, the definition of love used to be different. Today we believe in monogamy & if someone's husband love another woman, that' cheating. But back when people used to marry several women, that wasn't cheating. Men were free to marry, even love more than one wife. I don't know if it can be called love, but it's my understanding & analysis that Arjun favoured Subhadra more than his other wives. In the original Mahabharata there isn't much said, but then, the original one was just 8000 slokas & then with time & all the addition, it reached around the 1 Lakh slokas we know of today. I doubt the original one delved that deep in any character. But the characters & their actions can still be analysed & drawn conclusions from their actions. I believe that Arjun favoured Subhadra more than his other wives because

a) He freaking kidnapped her to marry her. This is not a very clever move if political alliance was his aim. By abducting Subhadra, he kind of invited Balaram's wrath. That wouldn't do much for political alliance as there's chance that Balaram wouldn't forgive him ever & maybe even wage a war against him. So there's this probability that Arjun was interested in something beyond just political alliance. And that can be Subhadra herself.

b) Arjun, or any of the older 3 Pandavas, didn't really need to marry Subhadra to acquire Yadavas' alliance. They were already related. Balaram & Krishna were Yudhishthir, Bheem & Arjuna's cousis through Kunti. On top of that Krishna was both Arjun & Draupadi's dear friend. Is there still the need of a marriage? If yes, then read my above point again.

c) Arjun actually took good care of Subhadra post marriage which was not the case with his other 2 wives. He took her to Indraprastha with him, thus breaking the vow he had made to Panchali. And then even advised Subhadra on how to win her over, which she eventually did. Arjun didn't leave her to simply fend for herself against Draupadi. He wished for Draupadi's acceptance so that life could be easier for Subhadra.

These things that he did for Subhadra, was absent in his previous marriages. It may not be love as we know, but he definitely felt a deeper affection towards Subhadra which he did not towards his other wives.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

🙆‍♀️

1 If one believes the theory of Vyasa telling Yudhishtira, Kunti and Arjun about Draupadi's past life and encouraging them for her marriage with all of them, then they are not mere humans, one has to believe in divinity and involvement of God

2 If Draupadi, Krushna and Her father knew about it, again they are not mere humans as they possess power to see past and future, but why go for Swayamvar when they could have simply married Draupadi to 5 of them?

3 Why didn't they tell Draupadi the truth instead of plotting and putting up a false narrative in front of her? Vyasa told her father but didn't think she has the right to know the truth

4 People who manipulated her into marrying all of them 🤧 are not righteous, Even if she knew beforehand, Yudhishtira, Kunti and Arjun lied to her and tried to manipulate her, What kind of relationship is this?

5 if We are believing past life etc then again Draupadi being a virgin every morning or every year doesn't really sells the story of sexual desire of a woman, she most likely had to go through same pain every time and 🙃🙃🙃🙃 it doesn't sound nice

The whole story doesn't represent Draupadi going in this marriage willingly, it doesn't tell that she wanted 5 husbands, it tells that she had to marry them because of her past or because of Arjun's mother.

Jeez girl you missing the point entirely the point is very simple that pandavas panchali marriage was purely political alliance that suited both the parties and all of them including drapaudi was involved because i refused to believe that someone like drapaudi did not had anything to say in this matter .or that she would meekly submit to something she does not wants. She rather was intelligent woman who knew politics well rest everything was just a story cooked up /enacted to tell others about this first polyandrous marriage of kshytria clan . This alliance strengthed pandavas position against their cousins.(by marriage in powerful kingdom like panchal ) Got panchala and strong alliance and the friendship between dwarika + kuru. Dwarika s friendship with panchal i would like to believe was already their when yhe Swamyvaar happened that explains why krishna got involved in pandavas s life right after drapaudi s Swamyvaar

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Jeez girl you missing the point entirely the point is very simple that pandavas panchali marriage was purely political alliance that suited both the parties and all of them including drapaudi was involved because i refused to believe that someone like drapaudi did not had anything to say in this matter .or that she would meekly submit to something she does not wants. She rather was intelligent woman who knew politics well rest everything was just a story cooked up /enacted to tell others about this first polyandrous marriage of kshytria clan . This alliance strengthed pandavas position against their cousins.(by marriage in powerful kingdom like panchal ) Got panchala and strong alliance and the friendship between dwarika + kuru. Dwarika s friendship with panchal i would like to believe was already their when yhe Swamyvaar happened that explains why krishna got involved in pandavas s life right after drapaudi s Swamyvaar

None discarded this point, The whole discussion started when you said that men's desires are celebrated then why not women's? That's why we are discussing if it was Draupadi's sexual desire to marry 5 Pandavas like it was Arjun's desire to marry other women.

Political alliance would have been same, if Draupadi was married to only one of them, No?

The whole discussion was about Draupadi's wish and desire, Till now I am not able to read a single answer which suggests it was either her wish or desire

Originally posted by: NoraSM

None discarded this point, The whole discussion started when you said that men's desires are celebrated then why not women's? That's why we are discussing if it was Draupadi's sexual desire to marry 5 Pandavas like it was Arjun's desire to marry other women.

Political alliance would have been same, if Draupadi was married to only one of them, No?

The whole discussion was about Draupadi's wish and desire, Till now I am not able to read a single answer which suggests it was either her wish or desire

Well all the answer are satisfactory as i have said it all about outlook

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

About Duryodhana vs Arjun, let's just agree to disagree. It was my opinion that Arjun was a better man than Duryodhana & I still believe so. Doesn't matter if Duryodhana could win whole world and become the King of it with the help of Shakuni's planning plotting. I will still place Arjun, for that matter, any Pandav, above him. It's my opinion. It's okay if you feel differently 😅

As for Subhadra Arjun lovestory, I need to clarify at first that by love, I don't mean love as we know it today. Back in those days, amidst all the polygamous relations, the definition of love used to be different. Today we believe in monogamy & if someone's husband love another woman, that' cheating. But back when people used to marry several women, that wasn't cheating. Men were free to marry, even love more than one wife. I don't know if it can be called love, but it's my understanding & analysis that Arjun favoured Subhadra more than his other wives. In the original Mahabharata there isn't much said, but then, the original one was just 8000 slokas & then with time & all the addition, it reached around the 1 Lakh slokas we know of today. I doubt the original one delved that deep in any character. But the characters & their actions can still be analysed & drawn conclusions from their actions. I believe that Arjun favoured Subhadra more than his other wives because

a) He freaking kidnapped her to marry her. This is not a very clever move if political alliance was his aim. By abducting Subhadra, he kind of invited Balaram's wrath. That wouldn't do much for political alliance as there's chance that Balaram wouldn't forgive him ever & maybe even wage a war against him. So there's this probability that Arjun was interested in something beyond just political alliance. And that can be Subhadra herself.

b) Arjun, or any of the older 3 Pandavas, didn't really need to marry Subhadra to acquire Yadavas' alliance. They were already related. Balaram & Krishna were Yudhishthir, Bheem & Arjuna's cousis through Kunti. On top of that Krishna was both Arjun & Draupadi's dear friend. Is there still the need of a marriage? If yes, then read my above point again.

c) Arjun actually took good care of Subhadra post marriage which was not the case with his other 2 wives. He took her to Indraprastha with him, thus breaking the vow he had made to Panchali. And then even advised Subhadra on how to win her over, which she eventually did. Arjun didn't leave her to simply fend for herself against Draupadi. He wished for Draupadi's acceptance so that life could be easier for Subhadra.

These things that he did for Subhadra, was absent in his previous marriages. It may not be love as we know, but he definitely felt a deeper affection towards Subhadra which he did not towards his other wives.

I can't say who is better man, I was strictly talking from the POV of that time where first born and Crown Prince was obviously a better option than a 3rd son.

Someone posted a link where Krushna asked Arjun to elope with Subhadra as they don't know what would his sister do if she gets option of Swayamvar. Subhadra had to marry Arjun for birth of Abhimanyu and future heir, It wasn't Arjun's idea to elope with her, He didn't risk anything as Subhadra's brother himself asked him to abduct her.

If Subhadra had gone for Swayamvar, I think Balaram would have organized a Gada contest to favor the guy he wanted as Subhadra's husband, Duryodhana would have won the Gada competition over Arjun, which wouldn't have served Krushna's purpose of getting Abhimanyu. Alliance with Yadavas provided the necessary financial help which would have transferred to Duryodhana, if Arjun hadn't married Subhadra

Uloopi and Chitra refused to go with Arjun, It's not like he didn't take them with him, it was their choice and condition for marriage, not Arjun's rejection for them. He couldn't really leave Subhadra in Dwarka as they put up an act of love in front on Balaram, Arjun leaving her behind would have caused trouble for them, moreover he couldn't really leave his wife in her brother's house, he was married to her and he had to take her with him.

If I am not wrong, Draupadi never made a condition that their other wives can't stay with them. I don't remember where but I read something about Draupadi's conversation with Krushna's wife where she spoke about how she serves Pandavas and their wives.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I can't say who is better man, I was strictly talking from the POV of that time where first born and Crown Prince was obviously a better option than a 3rd son.

Someone posted a link where Krushna asked Arjun to elope with Subhadra as they don't know what would his sister do if she gets option of Swayamvar. Subhadra had to marry Arjun for birth of Abhimanyu and future heir, It wasn't Arjun's idea to elope with her, He didn't risk anything as Subhadra's brother himself asked him to abduct her.

If Subhadra had gone for Swayamvar, I think Balaram would have organized a Gada contest to favor the guy he wanted as Subhadra's husband, Duryodhana would have won the Gada competition over Arjun, which wouldn't have served Krushna's purpose of getting Abhimanyu. Alliance with Yadavas provided the necessary financial help which would have transferred to Duryodhana, if Arjun hadn't married Subhadra

Uloopi and Chitra refused to go with Arjun, It's not like he didn't take them with him, it was their choice and condition for marriage, not Arjun's rejection for them. He couldn't really leave Subhadra in Dwarka as they put up an act of love in front on Balaram, Arjun leaving her behind would have caused trouble for them, moreover he couldn't really leave his wife in her brother's house, he was married to her and he had to take her with him.

If I am not wrong, Draupadi never made a condition that their other wives can't stay with them. I don't remember where but I read something about Draupadi's conversation with Krushna's wife where she spoke about how she serves Pandavas and their wives.

I clearly told it was my pov. It's okay if yours is different😆