Was Bheeshm right in making Pandu or Dhritrashtra the king - Page 2

Originally posted by: surabhi01

Actually vidhur was himself not interested to become king though he was wise man and great mentor . He was more interest in religious that is why when Mahabharata start vidhur get irritated and said do what ever all u want I don't care I am going to forest

And it is due to circumstances due to shakuni politics Drishatra become king

Pandu was king initially as vidhur said a king can't see can't run kingdom so that is why inpite of being elder drithrastra was not made king in first place because he was blind instead pandu was made king

But after curse of rishi pandu went to forest with two wives and here hastinapur pur was devoid for king . So shakuni manipulate until pandu come let's make drithrastra proxy king and drithrastra was made proxy king

If pandu was alive then it would be pandu king for long time but since pandu died hence drithrastra become real king of hastinapur

Vidur might not have been interested in becoming the king, but that is a different matter all together, even Ramji wasn't interested in becoming the king after the Vachan of Dashrath ji but that didn't stop others from considering him as their king. He was Dharmic and if persisted and reminded as how important it was for a capable man to become the king he would have definitely agreed

By the time of Mahabharata war, he had become way too irritated and that's why he decided to let go everything.

Coming to Pandu and Dhritrashtra discussion, completely agree to it

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I don't think that being a Dasi Putra was such a big obstacle in becoming the king because in the very next generation Yudhishtir made Yuyutsu the king of Indraprasth. If being a Dasi Putra wasn't a deterrent for Yuyutsu in no way it would have been one for Vidur ji. Plus people respected Bheeshm way too much, there was no reason to believe they would have discredited his decision.

Yes he was younger to his brothers but then Pandu was younger to Dhritrashtra yet he was chosen over Dhritrashtra so that should not have been a deterrent again

Coming to others like Satyavati and Kripacharya ji, yes they might have objected but that scenario would have come had Bheeshm actually proposed, he didn't even do that

Did Yuyutsu become king though? Parikshit did as per I know. When did he propose Yuyutsu as king?

Dhritarashtra was blind since birth and as per rules a blind man cannot become a King. Hence Pandu was chosen. Had Dhrit not been differently abled, he would have been King. So when someone able is elder to you, you cannot make him the King if the elder doesn't have a disability. Hence Pandu was made king. Pandu was elder to Vidur and both were complete, yes Vidur was more able than Pandu but Pandu was elder so he would have to be chosen.

Besides as I said before, Bhishma was a strong power but he could not select kings as per wish. It didn't work that way.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Did Yuyutsu become king though? Parikshit did as per I know. When did he propose Yuyutsu as king?

Dhritarashtra was blind since birth and as per rules a blind man cannot become a King. Hence Pandu was chosen. Had Dhrit not been differently abled, he would have been King. So when someone able is elder to you, you cannot make him the King if the elder doesn't have a disability. Hence Pandu was made king. Pandu was elder to Vidur and both were complete, yes Vidur was more able than Pandu but Pandu was elder so he would have to be chosen.

Besides as I said before, Bhishma was a strong power but he could not select kings as per wish. It didn't work that way.

Parikshit took over the rule of Hastinapur Samrat. But as a token of thanks for their support, Yudhishtir gave Yuyutsu the rule of Indraprasth.

Pandu was physically weak was nearly pale and hence got the name of Pandu(which means yellowish the name of jaundice in Sanskrit or Hindi is PanduRog) so he wasn't physically fit either.

Still we might agree about Pandu becoming the king but when he had his Vanwaas, why didn't Bheeshm propose Vidur then? He was definitely a better option that the Blind(both physically and metaphorically) Dhritrashtra. I think by then Satyavati had died too, and decision of making king(this time it wasn't even the king but something like the acting king wahan to he could have at least vouched for Vidur

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Parikshit took over the rule of Hastinapur Samrat. But as a token of thanks for their support, Yudhishtir gave Yuyutsu the rule of Indraprasth.

Pandu was physically weak was nearly pale and hence got the name of Pandu(which means yellowish the name of jaundice in Sanskrit or Hindi is PanduRog) so he wasn't physically fit either.

Still we might agree about Pandu becoming the king but when he had his Vanwaas, why didn't Bheeshm propose Vidur then? He was definitely a better option that the Blind(both physically and metaphorically) Dhritrashtra. I think by then Satyavati had died too, and decision of making king(this time it wasn't even the king but something like the acting king wahan to he could have at least vouched for Vidur

Yes, after your post I went and checked this information but you see Yuyutsu was given the kingdom as a token of thanks as Indraprastha had no heir to the throne. Just like Karna was given Ang rajya by Duryodhana.

You are right, Vidur was definitely way more able than Dhrit or Pandu. But in that society they would always prefer the son of a Queen over the son of a Dasi who was born out of wedlock. Unfortunately that was how it is. Pandu was the Queen's son who was next in line and in his absence, Dhrit was chosen as though he was diff abled he was still a prince while Vidur was not. Honestly, none of them were actually son of Vichitra Veer so your point is valid and Vidur would have anyday been way better. XD

But you see that's how unfair society was back then. So Vidur was never chosen over princes despite being more able. The royal birth counted (as they were sons of Queens). Yuyutsu got his kingdom as a token of appreciation. Here it wasn't such a case so in Pandu's absence the differently abled Queen's son was chosen.

I don't think it's fair to blame Bhishma here because you have to judge these people in backdrop of his or her time. I completely agree with your reasoning, Vidur was definitely more able and deserved. But it was not possible you see. This was monarchy, not democracy. So unfortunately Bhishma could not have changed the rules.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Yes, after your post I went and checked this information but you see Yuyutsu was given the kingdom as a token of thanks as Indraprastha had no heir to the throne. Just like Karna was given Ang rajya by Duryodhana.

You are right, Vidur was definitely way more able than Dhrit or Pandu. But in that society they would always prefer the son of a Queen over the son of a Dasi who was born out of wedlock. Unfortunately that was how it is. Pandu was the Queen's son who was next in line and in his absence, Dhrit was chosen as though he was diff abled he was still a prince while Vidur was not. Honestly, none of them were actually son of Vichitra Veer so your point is valid and Vidur would have anyday been way better. XD

But you see that's how unfair society was back then. So Vidur was never chosen over princes despite being more able. The royal birth counted (as they were sons of Queens). Yuyutsu got his kingdom as a token of appreciation. Here it wasn't such a case so in Pandu's absence the differently abled Queen's son was chosen.

I don't think it's fair to blame Bhishma here because you have to judge these people in backdrop of his or her time. I completely agree with your reasoning, Vidur was definitely more able and deserved. But it was not possible you see. This was monarchy, not democracy. So unfortunately Bhishma could not have changed the rules.

I guess you are right but still sometimes I feel that the people somehow also did twist their mistakes to make it look as their incapability.

You see the society had strange rules Satyavati was not a Kshatriya Princess but the people accepted her less abled sons over someone as giant as Bheeshm because he had taken the Pratigya. Yuyutsu and Karna were accepted as the kings despite not being the children of Queens because they were given the kingdom as a token of thanks /friendship

The kids born by Niyog were accepted as kings (that too for two consecutive generations) because their father were great men/god's especially in the case of Yudhishtir and Pandavas since they were born in forest, and everyone knew that Pandu was incapable to produce offsprings. I am sure that many would have doubted about whether or Kunti is saying the truth about having kids by Niyog with Devas or did they simply have kids by extra marital affairs

Hence I do think Vidur might have also been accepted had someone with a statute as high as Bheeshm might have presented his case

I am not blaming Bheeshm, I understand that despite being the protectorate or the throne and nearly the owner of the empire he couldn't have taken the decisions all alone. But he was the most righteous person in Hastinapur back then and did have major powers, so it's just I expected him to be more just.

This I still think is a blot on his otherwise completely clean personality

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I guess you are right but still sometimes I feel that the people somehow also did twist their mistakes to make it look as their incapability.

You see the society had strange rules Satyavati was not a Kshatriya Princess but the people accepted her less abled sons over someone as giant as Bheeshm because he had taken the Pratigya. Yuyutsu and Karna were accepted as the kings despite not being the children of Queens because they were given the kingdom as a token of thanks /friendship

The kids born by Niyog were accepted as kings (that too for two consecutive generations) because their father were great men/god's especially in the case of Yudhishtir and Pandavas since they were born in forest, and everyone knew that Pandu was incapable to produce offsprings. I am sure that many would have doubted about whether or Kunti is saying the truth about having kids by Niyog with Devas or did they simply have kids by extra marital affairs

Hence I do think Vidur might have also been accepted had someone with a statute as high as Bheeshm might have presented his case

I am not blaming Bheeshm, I understand that despite being the protectorate or the throne and nearly the owner of the empire he couldn't have taken the decisions all alone. But he was the most righteous person in Hastinapur back then and did have major powers, so it's just I expected him to be more just.

This I still think is a blot on his otherwise completely clean personality

Yes of course, I agree all characters of the epic have flaws and Bhishma did as well. It is just sad that Satyavati's sons and the descendants were all incapable. Had she not been selfish and compelled Bhishma to take that oath, Mahabharata would not have happened ;))

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Yes of course, I agree all characters of the epic have flaws and Bhishma did as well. It is just sad that Satyavati's sons and the descendants were all incapable. Had she not been selfish and compelled Bhishma to take that oath, Mahabharata would not have happened ;))

It wasn't Satyavati who had asked for that promise, it was her father who had put the conditions. A NishadKanya she didn't have much say in the discussion of her father and king Shantanu and later Devrat

It was SPMB that showed a rude Satyavati forcing Devavrat to take that vow. She even ill-treated him. 😴

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

It wasn't Satyavati who had asked for that promise, it was her father who had put the conditions. A NishadKanya she didn't have much say in the discussion of her father and king Shantanu and later Devrat

Some versions say it was Satyavati, some say it was her. Also, Nishad Kanya or do you mean a fisherwoman? 😳

Originally posted by: Wistfulness

It was SPMB that showed a rude Satyavati forcing Devavrat to take that vow. She even ill-treated him. 😴

Yes this is what was strange. I never knew Satya ever ill treated Devavrat. 😆