whom do you blame....

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tina

@tina59

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

I may be one of the very few who sympathises Duryodhana on a few occassions. Infact , its said that when duryodhana ruled hastinapur, he was an excellent ruler and the people prospered. Not only that his famous dialogue when Karna tells him about adharma...

he says that he knows what dharma is and also wants to follow it but for that he has to do adharma to get his due.

In a way from his POV if you see bhishma, vidur his own parents (sometimes), drona, Krishna, infact everyone have gone all out to justify and defend the pandavas , the only person who stood by him is shakuni and karna.

also everyone knows that krishna really manipulated and used every tactic to make the pandavas win be it the aswathama-elephant dialogue , the marriage of subhadra and arjun, the fight where he asks arjun to shoot karna when he is lifting the wheel, asking karna for his kavaj,

if every single time and person wants a him to lose, some people take the wrong path. I also do not blame duryodhana for the situation yudhistir put them in. If he wanted he could have walked away and avoided all this but he consciuosly didnt and it was his own foolishness that created the situation.

From what i have observed, the Pandavas weren't that righteous infact i fid them to be equally manipulative as the Kauravas, but one thing is sure , they got preferrential treatment and any sane person who is on the other side sees that every single time partiality is done to the other team might not feel good about it.

That's why ashwathama who is one of the most powerful saptharishi burns the entire kingdom and all of pandava kids die in it . His weapon is also instrumental in killing krishna who eats the fish which had the remains of the weapon and dies.

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Punyani

@punyani

Inactive

Posted: 11 years ago

Valid points and amazing thought process. I agree with most of what you have written, if one sees own family members favouring others more than you, its normal to get jealous.

Duryodhan for initial 10 years of his life didnt even know about his so called cousins living in a forest (assuming his parents never mentioned Pandu and sons to Duryodhan)

He was introduced to not only cousin but also was told that this cousin would be the Maharaj and not you, for none of Duryodhan's fault

On top of that he always saw his father afraid of losing the kingdom, any kid would go crazy looking at all these...

I seriously dont see where Duryodhan was wrong. He was a normal human being who wanted to achieve more and gain more power - just like all of us, trying to get higher positions by hook or crook.

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Shailesh

@Shailesh_Rathi

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

Duryodhan was a grey but flawed character. He was misled and brain-washed by his uncle from a very young age, but there were instances when he showed good judgment. I do not support his actions.

however, he was not an out-and-out evil caricature, as depicted in the serial. As per the epic, upon death, he was given the right to heaven along with his cousins, Pandavas...am not sure I completely understand the reasons why. Unfortunately, a lot of indian texts in its original version are not fully shared/accessible to indian public. esp. those whose versions run contradictory to prevailing public opinion.

Yes, I would agree with you that he was not solely responsible for the war since his cousins, Pandavas did not show righteous conduct either. Krishna and Shakuni might have been 2 sides of the same coin, if one were to look at it that way. Very engaging discussion, btw.

Edited by Shailesh_Rathi - 11 years ago

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Srishti

@srishtisingh

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

here is something new story:
That's why ashwathama who is one of the most
powerful saptharishi burns the entire kingdom
and all of pandava kids die in it . His weapon
is also instrumental in killing krishna who eats
the fish which had the remains of the weapon
and dies.

will u plz elaborate?

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@DrModel

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: srishtisingh
here is something new story:
That's why ashwathama who is one of the most
powerful saptharishi burns the entire kingdom
and all of pandava kids die in it . His weapon
is also instrumental in killing krishna who eats
the fish which had the remains of the weapon
and dies.

will u plz elaborate?

ERM...HMMM...NO!!!!

The old hunter thinks he is seeing a red hind and he stalks the crimsoned feet. When he is within range, he raises his rough bow and taking careful aim, looses his fateful arrow. The muni Durvasa had once blessed Krishna that every part of his body would be invulnerable to all weapons, save the soles of his feet. The arrowhead made from the sliver of the accursed club flares into the sole of the Dark One's foot, piercing the base of the thumb toe. Krishna roars in shock, as fate's shaft plunges agony through him. Jara comes running to hear that cry. Gasping to see Krishna, four-armed, knowing him at once from rumor, the hunter falls on his face before the dying Avatara. Krishna places his hand on the wild man's head and tells him, "It is only as I willed it and, my friend, you have set me free. Your mission in the world is fulfilled and you will find swarga for what you have done today." Sobbing, the hunter takes Krishna's head onto his lap. The Avatara's face is serene, wreathed in a smile. Next moment, he is dead. His spirit issues from his body and makes all the earth glow mysteriously, as it courses into heaven, where Indra, the Aswins, Rudra, the adityas, the vasus, the viswede-vas, devarishis and siddhas come to receive him. Greeting them, he ascends beyond, as Vishnu Narayana, into his own, most exalted realm.

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 2 (Kindle Locations 10602-10612). iUniverse. Kindle Edition.

++++++

As for Duryodhan, I have posted enough citatiosn where the Avatara calls him EVIL. in numerous other threads.

In the gloom of the forest, he mistook the holy foot of the Lord for the face of a deer and shot the fateful arrow at it. Running up to retrieve his prey, he beheld the glowing visage and knew him to be divine. Filled with remorse, he threw himself at the Lord's feet and burst into sobs. The Lord opened his lotus-petal eyes for the last time, smiled upon his slayer , and blessed and comforted him.

Vanamali (2012-05-22). The Complete Life of Krishna: Based on the Earliest Oral Traditions and the Sacred Scriptures (pp. 413-414). Inner Traditions Bear & Company. Kindle Edition.

It is said that Jara had been Vali in his previous birth, whom Sri Rama had shot from behind a tree. Thus in this birth he was given a chance to retaliate. This time it was the Lord who was the victim and Jara the one who shot him from behind the tree! Jara cried , "O Lord of Vaikuntha! Deign to pardon this misbegotten wretch who has done this crime in ignorance. Kill me soon, hunter of wild animals that I am, so that I may never more commit such terrible crimes! Even the gods fail to understand the mystery of your creation. How then can a most ignorant and humble hunter like me understand the purpose of your divine lila?" The blessed Lord said, "O Jara! Do not entertain any fear. Arise and be blessed, for it is only due to my own resolve that you had acted thus, and you shall precede me to my divine abode of Vaikuntha. You shall go to that world where men go, who have done great and noble deeds." Commanded by the Lord, Jara ascended the divine vehicle that had come to fetch the Lord, and he, too, attained to the celestial abode.

Vanamali (2012-05-22). The Complete Life of Krishna: Based on the Earliest Oral Traditions and the Sacred Scriptures (p. 414). Inner Traditions Bear & Company. Kindle Edition.

no offense to anyone but please PLEASE PLLEASSSEEE READ MB and Srimad Bhagwatam.

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divyasn

@divyasn

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

I dont agree that Pandavas were favoured , infact they were getting second hand treatment ... and Pandavas along with Kunti were fighting for survival and finding their place in the scheme of things ...

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: divyasn
I dont agree that Pandavas were favoured , infact they were getting second hand treatment ... and Pandavas along with Kunti were fighting for survival and finding their place in the scheme of things ...

Exactly. In what ways were the Pandavas favoured?

Duryodhan's father was the king, that also a blind one, who blindly supported every misdeed of his son, be it the Lakshagriha incident or Draupadi's vastraharan.

Bhishm was not exactly partial towards the Pandavas.

It was only Vidur, who realized that the 5 Pandavas were alone with no father, whereas the Kauravas were 100 brothers with the king as their father. Hence he extended his support to the Pandavas.

Besides, if the Pandavas had an uncle like Vidur, then Duryodhan too had an uncle like Shakuni, who supported n helped him everywhere.

As far as Duryodhan's right to the throne is concerned, it was not clear as to who was the rightful heir. Hence the division was made.

Duryodhan initially got Hastinapur, n then Indraprastha as well.

So, where exactly was he deprived?

It was the Pandavas who spent most of their life in exile, before the war.

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Ashwini_D

@Ashwini_D

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

I agree Duryodhan's portrayal as an out-an-out evil character with no sense of morality can be disputed. He was a villain who believed his cause was just. If you were to view the epic from his point of view, he could consider the Pandavas as outsiders, (as they were not the biological sons of Pandu) and contest Yudhisthir's claim to the throne on those grounds. Also it is said all his actions stemmed from the belief that the kingdom had been unfairly taken away from his blind father and he alone was the rightful hair of the Kurus.

But whatever Duryodhan thought of his right to inheritance, the laws of the Kurus at that time also recognized Yudisthir's right , who was also elder to Dury, to become king. Hence a middle ground, a solution was reached where the kingdom was split between the Kauravas and the Pandavas. Duryodhan had shown his leaning towards adharma right since childhood from his act of poisoning Bheem. I do not need to reiterate all the crimes and sins that he committed against the Pandavas to uphold his self-imposed 'right to the entire Kuru kingdom'. He did not honour the arrangement that the Kauravas had reached with the Pandavas of returning them their kingdom and instead persisted on waging war.

The Pandavas, on the contrary, though not saints themselves, never stooped to Duryodhan's level of usurping somebody's kingdom by assassination, deceit and treachery. Therefore, it is quite obvious, as to who were the better set of cousins here.

Edited by ashwi_d - 11 years ago

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tina

@tina59

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

I am just thinking from a normal person POV on how would i react ff every single person shows partiality towards the pandavas. Every opportunity he got to prove his ability, he was sidelined.

what would his thought process be then... it would very hard for him to still follow the righteous path

Even ashwathama felt sidelined by his own father when he favored arjuna that's why he too supported duryodhana..

I just feel that the pandavas weren't all that great as they were portrayed, I mean they were manipulative too . whatever they did during the war to kill karna, drona, duryodhana weren't right.

that doesnt excuse some of his actions which were downright wrong

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tina

@tina59

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#10

Ok so this is what i know of what transpired.

Gandhari curses krishna that his entire clan will be killed. Ashwathama releases his brahmasthra which he cannot take back. He also has a gem placed in his forehead which gives him immortality. Krishna urges Ashwathama to give up his gem which he does by breaking it up into several pieces and they release it in the ocean.

The yadava clan who swim in the beach all die consuming or coming in contact with the water that has the pieces of the gem. A fish consumes one of the pieces which is again caught by a fisherman and it lands into the hands of a hunter who upon opening the fish finds the gem. When he goes hunting, he mistakes krishna to be a deer and shoots with the gem piece placed in the arrow head and Krishna dies coming in contact with the same.

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whom do you blame....

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