whom do you blame.... - Page 2

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srishtisingh thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#11
if someone proves to b better than me then it does not give me certificate of justification to b outright jealous and do bad to them.yes he may have felt bad but how can u say steps taken in jealousy and anger are right?as for as partiality is concerned I think u are considering just one side.who pandavas had? no father to protect them, there was an uncle who showed his partiality always.being drona fav student,arjun did not get that in charity he earned that by his hardwork and devotion. still drona loved his son too much otherwise he would have never taught brahma weapon to him
the problem lied with dury was not that he was born evil or something but his actions always had one motive-destroy pandavas at any cost
I donot say pamdavas were saints but yep they were better than dury.
srishtisingh thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#12
I donot think the yadava clan was destroyed in way u are describing.infact I am learning this story for the first time.
Wistfulness thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: srishtisingh

I donot think the yadava clan was destroyed in way u are describing.infact I am learning this story for the first time.

Me too! I've read the tale in which Krishna's son Samba mocks the sages and this turns out to be the footing of the clan's destruction.
ipkfan1 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#14
Just because you are deprived, you do not get the right to seize what is not yours or to be vindictive with jealousy. Pandavas did not have a father who would support their misdeeds nor did they have an uncle like Shakuni. Just because your rival scores better than you do not have to hate him and insult his wife and mom.
I do not know of any manipulations from Pandavas. Karna and Party had killed Abhimanyu when he was on ground without any weapons. He was attacked by multiple mega warriors when he was all alone and trapped. Karna and party did not wait for Abhimanyu to be armed. This is what exactly Lord Krishna reminds Arjuna of when he refused to kill Karna until he was armed. This is justice. Karna did not deserve a hero's death. It would be unfair to Abhimanyu.
We all know how Drona was killed. But what he did before that deserved Pandava's actions. He used magical weapons and major astras on ordinary soldiers. This is unfair and against dharma. He is known to have broken every rule of war dharma during the Mahabharat war. His sin level multiplies as he is a Brahmin and had a bigger duty to follow, teach and live dharma.
I do not know of any instances where Pandavas tried to burn Kauravas or drown them. They could only be accused of being too obedient to their elders. I have not heard of a single man who respects his parents and elders and would jump on them to slaughter them with out completely evaluating dharma/facts. Pandavas were busy evaluating dhama when the Kauravas tired to insult Draupadi. and them.
I do not understand why it is wrong to break the thigh that ridiculed Draupadi? We cannot complain that Pandavas did nothing to protect Draupadi when you do not like Bheem to break the thigh that invited and insulted Draupadi.
Besides this is several thousands of years ago. If rules have changed and women's rights reformed in the last 50 years, then we do not know what the rules existed were then. Of course Pandavas did not agree with these rules that is why they opposed them and swore to avenge. I do not think any government even today shoots or hangs a murderer or rapist without trail. This was their family who they had to fight. I do not how many of us fight family for a living without being tortured emotionally. However the whole purpose of Lord Krishna's birth was to bring dharma that made sense and distinguishes good from bad. The limits and the rule breakers for dharma. For Example you do not tell a thief about all your wealth and where you hide them. Similarly if you are honest about the victim's location to a murderer then it is your fault. Yudhistir was honest and trusting and was often easily mixed by his cousins who tried to trick him and twist dharma against each other. Which is why the Pandavas seeks Lord Krishna's help.
I am amazed why people are complaining about Karna's and Drona's death when Pandavas are accused of being napumsaks for following or trying to understand dharma. If it is okay for Yudhistir to lie during the game of dice then it is okay for him to lie during war too. But he did not. It is only fair that Kauravas get the taste of their own medicine. I cannot understand how a rapist is good?!
Wistfulness thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#15
Agreed that the pandavas weren't 100% perfect as every mortal is bound to be flawed, they never leaned as low as Duryodhan did!
I've read many posts like 'Bhishma was biased and so they turned out to be evil..'. Seriously? I don't think that they were love starved kids who never received Bhishma's love.
suman2 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#16
Well, I am not going to weigh between Yudhistir & Bro. Vs Duryodhan & Bro. on ground of good or bad. Everybody has a good angel and a bad angel inside and when one outweighs the other, you become that person.
My only and biggest complain for Yudhistir, Arjuna, Bheem, Bhisma, Drona etc. is that, just because they were scared to go to hell (If one doesn't follow Dharma then he will go to hell) they didnt protect Draupadi. They considered their going to heaven was more important than Draupadi 's mistreatment. Why can't Bheesma just picked his bow and stopped Duryodhan. Why can't Bheem crushed them all to death. To hell with dharma to hell with elder brother's vachan etc. How can they allow their wife to be disrobed in public. What about that Dharma where they had taken promise in front of wedding fire that they will protect her ?

In name of Dharma since that time Men been doing injustice towards Women till now...
srishtisingh thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#17
@suman I agree with u! they should have taken weapon and punished culprits.but they did not. hence they had that black mark on them always
guenhwyvar thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#18
just so we get this clear -- Ashwatthama was NOT a sapta-rishi. He might me in the next manvantara (it's in the Srimad Bhagvatam I believe).
That being said, I'll respect your opinion and your thoughts, but to be very frank - the Pandavas were never favored. The incidents that they had to go through justifies this. Duryodhan was always favored by his blind father and the vows of Bhishma and the debt of Karna and Drona. Vidura was the only one that never "favored" Dury because he saw right through him.

As far as Krishna is concerned, the Pandavas chances were already messed up -- it was 7 to 11 akshauhini with the Kauravas with the larger number hence more warriors. On top of that he had Bhishma, one of the best warriors of his time; Drona - the guru who could not be defeated until he was no longer armed, Kripa - he was immortal, Karna - a fierce and deadly archer, and many other warriors including the Narayani Sena!!! So to think that there is a logical, reasonable dharmic way to defeat Bhishma, Drona, or Karna is kinda silly. If there was a way to defeat them, they would have been defeated a long time ago.

The act of using Shikandini as a shield while attacking Bhishma was deceiving, but there was no other way. Shikandini didn't possess the strength to kill Bhishma, and even if she did, she couldn't do it because Bhishma could die whenever he wanted to!

The Ashwatthama trick was used because there was no other way. Drona alone was more than capable of taking down the Pandavas and his strategy to serve Duryodhan was to make Yuddhi a POW. The consequences of this is astounding because it goes back to the dice game. Yuddhi is a slave, his brothers may be free but they won't disobey him even if he was a slave. IP is totally lost since Yuddhi is a POW.

The marriage of Subhi and Arjun is overstretched in this stupid serial. These two fell in love with each other ... and they did what Krishna and Rukmini did ... so if it's adharma for a couple to elope when one of them was going to be "forced" (since none can oppose Haladhara Balarama) ... then that's a shame.

Karna's kavach was a cheat to begin with. As long as he had that armor he couldn't die. This adds to an above point that again strengthens Dury's army by unfair means.

And that last paragraph is a bit odd. But the particular pastime has been mentioned ...

Anyhow, the bottom line from what I observe is that most of your stuff is from the serial which is sort of unreliable. Of course, I hope I didn't come across as mean or rude or whatever, it's just that whenever someone uses the serial as a reference point, it just hits a bad nerve. So I apologize if this made you sad or anything. 😊
ABCDesiGirl93 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#19
I agree with @ shyam09 and ipkfan1

The Pandavs didn't do anything against dharma. Do you know what the proof of that is? Its Krishna. Bhagwan doesn't stay where there is adharma. He's ever-present only where there is DHARMA.

What Duryodhan and Karuavs thought, said, did was all without dharma.

Do you think Krishna Bhagwan would have stayed with the Pandavs if they didn't have dharma? No. He wouldn't have.

As for the war and what happened during the war, Bhagwan's agna is supreme and holds the upmost importance than anything else! After Arjun was shown Vishnu Bhagwans' Viraatswarup, then Arjun as a bhakta followed through his dharma.

@TM: After discussing with my mother, I have come to realize that King Dhritarashtra is the root of the problem.
riti4u thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#20
for your question... I wud blame bheeshma and Satyavati the most...coz they kind of started all this...Bheeshma was someone who had the power to stop all this before it cud have gone worse...but since he made that promise to abide by king's throne...he just became a mute spectator.. and kind of gave strength to dritrashtra n duryodhan ..even shakuni who vowed to destroy hastinapur was on a revenge spree with bheeshma only..It is not his fault that he wanted to be devoted son..but I feel he shud have stood out for right...considering he had power...As far as pandavas and Kauravas are concerned... they had accumulative effect of what transpired before them...Dritrashtra 's blind love for his son..kind of strengthen dury... I kind of feel that he carried ambition which his father had...and it only increased ... and when yudhistir is crowned...jealousy and rage took over... It is my opinion that Karna was rightful heir if kunti had revealed before war...which cud have been accepted by both kauravas and pandavas... Since it is my personal opinion..so i wud not like to debate on right and wrong of that... Still to sum up.. I wud say..There is no particular reason of this war... it just showcases how those very qualities of human- greed,ego, revenge ,jealousy can take worse form and cause destruction around...Those who survived just had lesser faults than those who perished...

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