Kool Comments : Dharmesh issue Edited note pg 15 - Page 5

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koolsadhu1000 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#41

Originally posted by: naava

Kools i think everything you have said about the Dharmesh issue is correct. What i don't quite understand, and i talked a lot about it on yesterdays Comments thread, is where the issue of punishment came in.

Everyone is saying "D has to be "punished" somehow therefore he has to support his child." ?????? where does that idea even come from? Dharmesh should support Vaishali and the baby because it is his responsibility...period. It has nothing to do with punishment. It has to do with the idea that if you bring little lives into the world, you have a responsibility to take care of them....and if Vaishali refuses it she isn't letting him go scot free - meaning unpunished - she would be letting him go scot free in terms of his responsibility to this child. It's not about her in the end - it's certainly not mercenary (??) to take the money it's simply about taking care of the baby.

And to be honest...even tho he said in the heat of anger that he won't support anyone, i think he has shown that he cares about Varun and I think he will care about this child also, although he perhaps thinks of this one more as his waaris...more than just a son..(do we KNOW IT'S SON?? maybe its a daughter !!) 😆

anyway...i too was a bit worried when i saw archu and madhuri.......here's another thought...what if madhuri and dharmu were married in temple only? Is that possible? then they wouldn't be legally married according to India law? If so, then Vaishali would be the legal wife after all. 😆Just a thought



Call it GIVING BACK good then . He cant screw women and walk off naava and if a woman decides to retaliate by kicking him in the groin , one can hardly say she isnt ENTITLED to coz its NOT HER PLACE TO PUNISH .😃 I wud APPLAUD her if she decideds to strip him financially .
That said , if She doesnt Wish to give him back good , She shud at least take it coz THATS his RESPONSIBILITY .
Edited by koolsadhu1000 - 15 years ago
malinn thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#42
Kool......When I say young and beautiful.....it means that the world is her oyster......It does not mean running to the next man or using your charms to get yourself a job / promotion etc......
If she had been an older woman.......not so healthy or attractive......then such a person would be limited in the avenues open to her.....but, such is not the case for Vaishali......
And the whole crux of the argument boils down to.....simply put.....
Re-read your commentary of yesterday and re-write it.....today, it will be different.....All I objected was to the presentation of the matter......the approach.....the manner in which it was told.....which sounded mercenery and materialistic.....the mind-set was wrong.....
I am now unable to present it any further, without re-writing the same things......which can be so boring.....so, I rest my case....
koolsadhu1000 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#43

Originally posted by: malinn

Kool......When I say young and beautiful.....it means that the world is her oyster......It does not mean running to the next man or using your charms to get yourself a job / promotion etc......

If she had been an older woman.......not so healthy or attractive......then such a person would be limited in the avenues open to her.....but, such is not the case for Vaishali......
And the whole crux of the argument boils down to.....simply put.....
Re-read your commentary of yesterday and re-write it.....today, it will be different.....All I objected was to the presentation of the matter......the approach.....the manner in which it was told.....which sounded mercenery and materialistic.....the mind-set was wrong.....
I am now unable to present it any further, without re-writing the same things......which can be so boring.....so, I rest my case....

Darling u called my mind set mercenary , materialistic , petty and today WRONG . Thats subjective and CLOSE MINDED . Instead of understanding me in correct perspective u advanced theories of concepts like sELF RESPECT and SELF RELIANCE assuming I Hadnt even CONSIDERED THEM .
I HAD . But I had weighed her options and I found NONE . She is in HOT SOUP and her silly family who doesnt even know enough about legalities to know that she cannot get a DIVORCE as she isnt even legally married ..........and who believed she shud HIDE his bigamy coz MOM will be shocked is HARDLY the support SHE SHUD FALL BACK ON . For her own self development she shud do job and for the Childs sake she shud make Dharmu Pay up was my suggestion .
I still dont see WHY ur not admitting to what u mean by her YOUTH and BEAUTY can OPEN THE WORLD to her . IT can only OPEN Two things ............It can land her a GOOD PROPOSAL or it can GIVE HER A JOB . MODELLING perhaps ?Or PR or SECRETARIAL in CORPORATE WORLD ?Where ur PERSONALITY counts ? U see malinnI don't cloak my mercenary thoughts in wordy phrases .😊 I am BLUNT . And so some think Im MERCENARY .
Btw It was NICE argung with u .And I trust U r not offended ?Just As I wasnt by urs ?
Edited by koolsadhu1000 - 15 years ago
naava thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#44

Originally posted by: koolsadhu1000

Call it GIVING BACK good then . He cant screw women and walk off naava and if a woman decides to retaliate by kicking him in the groin , one can hardly say she isnt ENTITLED to coz its NOT HER PLACE TO PUNISH .😃 I wud APPLAUD her if she decideds to strip him financially .
That said , if She doesnt Wish to give him back good , She shud at least take it coz THATS his RESPONSIBILITY .



no, no i agree with you...that yes she should take the money -- because it IS his responsibility. And that he can't go around creating little people and not take care of them and their mothers...My only point in all these posts is that IF the woman thinks she is punishing him and does it out of revenge for his wrong doings, then that hatred affects the child negatively. I don't blame her for being very angry, but she needs to think about the child now. Like sowmya_jairam said though, Vaishu doesn't show much in the way of maturity from any angle.


malinn thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#45
No, Kool...... I am absolutely and thoroughly enjoying myself....

Well, I always thought that your commentary reflected your thinking.... Based on which, I created an impression of you..... Which is why, I used words to reflect those qualities to you.... Meaning, that if you were in Vaishali's place, this is how you would think......

Which is why I also argued that you can' t think for the CV's but one must speak for oneself......

Again, I clearly wrote that the presentation and manner were wrong..... Nt the matter
bhallarox thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#46
What it looked like from today's episode is that Ajit will become bad again. The first time he watched them gamble and was urged to by his friends, and the 2nd time he gambled with a lot of persuasion from his friend. Although, I think he will just return his money to Manav. I would hate to see Ajit becoming bad and then ruining Vandu's life. Sulochana was good in telling her daughter off in the beginning but once Archu starts saying this emotional dialogue of how she was worried about her mother and if she would have an asthma attack, Sulochana gets emotional and hugs her daughter😡 I thought Sulochana would have argued back by saying this doesn't mean you hide everything from your aai? With Savita, my sympathy is growing for her. She was so sad, and those chawl women have nothing to do but gossip about people. I felt really bad at the end though. Savita was unconsicous. I don't know how though, I think she was so sad about everything. It was good Manav checked on her. Does Damodar even care that his wife is unconscious? If Sulo had an asthma attack Damodar would care way more. Kools, do you think Damodar cares for Sulo more than he does for his own wife? Oh, and yes Dharmesh can claim Vaishu's chiild as his. Keep up your good commentary Kools😊
Edited by bhallarox - 15 years ago
naava thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#47

Originally posted by: bhallarox

What it looked like from today's episode is that Ajit will become bad again. The first time he watched them gamble and was urged to by his friends, and the 2nd time he gambled with a lot of persuasion from his friend. Although, I think he will just return his money to Manav. I would hate to see Ajit becoming bad and then ruining Vandu's life. Sulochana was good in telling her daughter off in the beginning but once Archu starts saying this emotional dialogue of how she was worried about her mother and if she would have an asthma attack, Sulochana gets emotional and hugs her daughter😡 I thought Sulochana would have argued back by saying this doesn't mean you hide everything from your aai? With Savita, my sympathy is growing for her. She was so sad, and those chawl women have nothing to do but gossip about people. I felt really bad at the end though. Savita was unconsicous. I don't know how though, I think she



😆 😆 bhallorox !! @ underlined part....THAT was why i voted for Sulo in the STOD thread...hahaha what made u mad made me glad i guess... 😆 i just thought that was such a cute expression on her face...like so sweet and very touched that her daughters loved her that much...i just thought it was so mommy ...hhhh...

yes, we are all worried about Ajit...and i am also about Sibhu...what's up with him...? is he going to be a help or...a hindrance... hmmm

😆
Edited by naava - 15 years ago
mandy0310 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#48
Great commentary Kool!
I would have loved to see Archana continue working, she wanted to but Manav got so mad at the idea that he walked out on her. It would have been nice to see Archana working but unfortunately the CVs aren't going to let that happen.
I like that Varsha is working, she needs to keep busy and she seems very happy right now.
Vaishali is crazy, she should sue Dharmesh for child support. I completely understand her not wanting anything to do with him but that doesn't mean he should be able to walk away from his responisibilties to his child. He owes Vaishali that much, same with Madhuri
I also agree about Manju, that will be frustrating for her to be the only one working and having to support one more person. While it is no fault of Vaishali's, Manju's frustration can be understood. Vinod should ask Satish for a job, at least that will help out Manju
Ajit, I am so disappointed in him. First he slaps Vandu, drinks then instead of taking money that Manav told him he could use to pay his bills, he takes it to gamble. He really is falling into bad habits and it is bound to get worse. I feel bad for Vandu too, she doesn't deserve this. Shame on Ajit
bhallarox thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#49

👏 Kool in a fighting form.......or should I say spirited????

You spoke very strongly about hunger and empty stomach and principles and self-respect and idealism are possible only in a satisfied and fully fe body......
While, you make a very convincing argument, and many will possibly buy it.......It is still the easy way out....It is still the only option that you are choosing for Vaishali.....
See, the CV's are thinking ahead of you.....They are showing you cinematographically, what lays ahead for Vaishali, possibly....You are only seeing things one-dimensionally......Money is the only thing that rules in your argument......You are closing all and any doors for Vaishali.....
Remember, this is a b*****d child......so, rights, visitation, father's love, both parents, father's name.....are all idealistic.....the label that will stick will be b*****d......
In the western world, we see these kind of punishments.....MONETARY......and you see how that entire society has evolved........People are scared to get married......they avoid it....or they enter into contracts before the marriage......everyone is scared of being sued.....so the doctor doesn't diagnose exactly, leaving a way out.....each and everywhere, you see a WAY OUT......an avoidance of taking onus or responsibility..... Its a totally materialistic society.......where a parent SUES for its child's death in MILLIONS - which is considered JUSTICE......
Justice cannot be measured only monetarily......Justice is done only when there is repentance and guilt for one's own mistakes, so that the person is reformed and does not repeat the same thing......
I still believe that losing his entire family, friends and name in society - itself is a big punishment for Dharmesh......Maybe, Madhuri will not be able to concieve again, so losing Varun and Madhuri will be the final loss for him....He will be all alone......Simply saying that taking his money means he will NOT do it again or that he will think twice is something which is questionable.......If Dharmesh is a truly black person.....he will make it his vendetta against women - and get married to another rich woman for HER money??????????
You discard Vaishali so easily as unable to take care of herself...... She had just finished college, if I remember correctly, so her not working was not a choice or anything.....She got married after college......Does not mean she is NOT capable......I have an MBA, and am a housewife......I choose to be one.....does not make me any less capable in my own opinion.....
You have again chosen to show the characters in a way that it suits your argument......
Archana: Manav wants to support her himself......right now, if she asserts herself, then it will affect his ego and their early marital relations.......I think, she is right in simply being a wife as of now.....Many women would choose this route, since it is one of adjustment and marital harmony
Varsha: She was shown as rude, brash and outspoken right from the beginning......So, she had an affair, which almost broke her marriage......she couldn't understand the importance of being a mother and her brashness and impulsiveness have already punished her for life.....The CV's are not showing her to be a villain....they are simply showing how a person can ruin paradise, if they are immature and brash......
Manju: She is the villain, who uses the small powers she has (her salary) to wreck others lives....Many people in life fit this category.....can't say that the CV's are creating a villain simply BECAUSE she is earning.......
On the whole, I think that you have started wanting to think like or for the CV's.......so that there is no analysis of your own.....Just because YOU THINK they will not show Vaishali capable, you are closing all her avenues......I think that is wrong.....
I am not saying that taking child support or taking Dharmesh to court is wrong.....what I am saying is that it is not the ONLY option.....also the manner in which you presented this option is incorrect or disagreeable....atleast to me.....
Each person will think and react to a situation, based on their own experiences in life......which is why we have differing views and points.......However, some things should always be right and some things always wrong......
Vaishali has a full family.....All families have their faults.....but in times of problems.....they rally together.....which is what family is all about....
The parents have a house in Mumbai.....worst case scenario they can sell it or rent it and live in their hometown on that money.....till such a time as this crisis is over......Vaishali can bear the child and thereafter look after them financially......Now, don't shoot it down, since I know of many women who do support their parents and very well too.....In a matter of a few years, Vaishali can work/study and get good salaried job......In Mumbai, even today, call-centre jobs are easily available and do pay decent salaries for more than SURVIVAL......Just options......there can be many such options......She can do Tuitions (Sulochana can teach Marathi to children), alterations of clothes can earn a person 8-10000/month / Manohar can do some part-time account work etc.....
Give her a chance.......Dharmesh is not the end-all and be-all.....He is a mistake.....She has to move on.....She is young and beautiful.....A few years of hardships will only give her a decent shot at a good life.....Sticking to Dharmesh and trying to milk him off money will only make her miserable and keep the option of re-uniting with the guy open.....
Don't get so scared of hardships Kool......We have to face certain situations in life full on......we can't take the easy way out.........Money is NOT everything.....while it is essential......Vaishali is not in dire straits yet......taking help from her Jiju's and parents is not wrong under such circumstances......
One point for Naava here........am replying here for your post in the previous thread......I respect your points and your experience......But want to still argue (for the sake of it)......
Here, it is not a question of keeping a father away from his child.......this is an illegitimate child.....the feelings towards the father and the other sibling will always be torturous and bitter...... so telling a child a 'lie" for his own peace of mind - would not be wrong....that his father is no more or that he left us or that we don't know where he is etc......When the child is old enough to understand, and his own thinking is stable and secure.....one can tell him the truth alongwith the reasons......Let the child then decide whether he wishes to make contact with the father.....Let me tell you, the child will still be bitter for what has been done to him....but he may be able to handle it better.....
But then again, this is my thinking.....I would like to protect my child from a father who cheated his mother and another woman.....its not the ONLY way.....
Also about the re-location.....that point was that incase, Vaishali feels that living in such a society where everyone knows her and what happened with her, she and her parents can re-locate somewhere and make a fresh beginnning......its just one of the options maybe available to her, if she so chooses.....
Malinn, you don't need to criticize on what Kools is doing. Kools writes funny and humorous commentary that should make you laugh, but you are criticizing Kool's every point. If you disagree with the point, that's fine everyone has their POVs but you're supposed to be nice to everyone on this forum.
carpe-diem thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#50
Kools👏

i agree with almost all the parts. i strongly disagree with the following

Look at it from the BABY's angle . The baby will grow up one day . If he finds out that HIS dad was a millionaire and cud have given him a bETTER LIFE and his mom egoistically refused financial help and didnt even BOTHER asking the Dad if he wud provide , he may get WILD with anger . He wud ask perhaps , Why did u screw MY FUTURE for ur ideas of SELF RESPECT ?Why did u bring me up on a meagre salaried income when he cud have afforded the best school , engineering or doctor admissions and university educations etc ? Who ARE u to take decisions on MY BEHALF ?

if the child is raised properly he or she will not question Vaishu, rather the child will be proud of the mother who sacrificed so much to give it a proper upbringing. The money will come with strings attached...
Edited by carpe-diem - 15 years ago

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