krishna's argument - Page 3

Originally posted by: ..dreamygatz..

That was not a time where anyone could go and study from anyone! Discrimination based on caste and class clearly existed! So Ekalavya couldn't go and find any other teacher! And asking ones thumb as "guru dakshina" is so gross! Better was asking for life!

Then about Karna.. he wanted to prove to be better than kshatriya which is wrong? then again you are telling me that a person of one caste should compete with only a person of his same caste! which is again discriminating karna!

I dont believe that you cannot go and learn from anone those days.. Drona, parshurama were like IITs of today. I'm sure there were thousands of gurus at that time because kshatriyas were in crores of numbers. But since these days kids like to study only at IITs not in regional engineering colleges. Hence Eklavya and Karna did not want to settle for anyone less than Drona. Eklavya wasnt rejected education because of his caste but because he belonged to another kingdom.

And i never said a person should compete with a person of same caste, i did not make such a gross statement. I dont know which sentence of mine made you think so.

Ok! This is heading to no where.. and discussing is getting pointless! And soon I will go 🤪 !!!

So on more serious note! What you are saying is something i cannot accept and What am saying is something you cannot accept! So ghooma phirake will say the same thing!

We are not here to accept but respect what the other person say. So i dont think it is pointless because i got to hear some wonderful opinions which are different from mine. I have no problem in stopping this discussion if you are to go🤪🤣

Why everybody point out Karna jealousy towards Arjun but nobody mention Arjun jealousy towards Eklavya???

Why it become big issue when Karna dare to challenge Arjun out of rivalry/competetion in rangbhoomi but it was smartly hidden the fact that because of Arjun insecurity, Dronacharya took Eklavya's thumb?

Yes if Eklavya was Hastinapur citizen and of low caste then also Dronacharya would take his thumb in the name of gurudhakshana because he already made promise to Arjun that he will make him best archer. Eklavya was no terror for hastinapur as Bhism is protecting the state.

Dronacharya can simply refuse Eklavya to give him more knowledge but he ask his thumb in the name of gurudhakshana. Which guru do that?

Somebody can say it was punishment to Eklavya as he steal knowledge without permission of Guru Dronacharya. But Karna mistake was larger than Eklavya when Karna lie to Parsuram, even then Parsuram punishment to Karna ( he forget his knowledge at the time of need but otherwise can use it) was much smaller than what Dronacharya did to Eklavya.

Sorry sailuja if because of my comment your thread will closed. The thread will run smoothly when somebody mention Karna jealousy towards Arjun but thread will immediately closed when anybody mention Arjun jealousy towards Eklavya

Originally posted by: Neutral2

Why everybody point out Karna jealousy towards Arjun but nobody mention Arjun jealousy towards Eklavya??? Because Arjun's is a healthy jealousy that prompted him to improve, he never said i'll wage a war against eklavya, kill him and prove my superiority. He wanted to be the best, not superior.

Why it become big issue when Karna dare to challenge Arjun out of rivalry/competetion in rangbhoomi but it was smartly hidden the fact that because of Arjun insecurity, Dronacharya took Eklavya's thumb? Because of Arjun's insecurity Drona took eklavya's thumb???🤣 Drona is not Arjun's paid bodyguard. Anyways for common people he took the thumb for the sentence he declared regarding arjun being the best, for the people who read and understand critically, they'll know even if eklavya had his thumb he would have been no match to Arjun after completing the education.

Yes if Eklavya was Hastinapur citizen and of low caste then also Dronacharya would take his thumb in the name of gurudhakshana because he already made promise to Arjun that he will make him best archer. Eklavya was no terror for hastinapur as Bhism is protecting the state. Bhishma has ichcha mrityu, but he is not undefeatable. If you remember he was defeated badly by Abhimanyu in kurukshetra war. Anyways yes, brishma would have defeated eklavya with ease.The point is not eklavya is terror or not, but he cannot attack hastinapur with Drona's education.

Dronacharya can simply refuse Eklavya to give him more knowledge but he ask his thumb in the name of gurudhakshana. Which guru do that? Drona did not give him any knowlege, he smartly hid himself from others sight and gained it. If Drona asked for thumb, then eklavya could have refused, why dont anyone say eklavya is stupid and brainless to give his thumb away just like that to a random stranger? Because he too knows that Drona can ask anything in service charge.

Somebody can say it was punishment to Eklavya as he steal knowledge without permission of Guru Dronacharya. But Karna mistake was larger than Eklavya when Karna lie to Parsuram, even then Parsuram punishment to Karna ( he forget his knowledge at the time of need but otherwise can use it) was much smaller than what Dronacharya did to Eklavya. Otherwise can use it? Brahmastra cannot be used just like that as a toy. It is one of the last weapons to be used and dangerous if invoked in small battles. Parshuram's curse took the life of karna, Drona's curse only took eklavya's archery skills but made him famous without a blessing. But parshurama blessed karna along with the curse of everlasting fame.

Sorry sailuja if because of my comment your thread will closed. The thread will run smoothly when somebody mention Karna jealousy towards Arjun but thread will immediately closed when anybody mention Arjun jealousy towards Eklavya

Originally posted by: ..Apz..

1. There is no justification in my books for Drona taking Eklavya's thumb away just because he submitted himself to Drona. He could have refused. Eklavya was a prodigy, he did not not want anyone to challenge Arjun. It is a case of pure discrimination.Just because Draupadi was forcefully submitted to Dury, doesnt lessen the crime of disrobing her. Are you seriously comparing Eklavya's submission and Draupadi's submission? OMG!!! I have no words to say in this. DArling, Eklavya submitted dutifully and wishfully, hence he did not refuse.. Draupadi was submitted forcefully, she refused. Hence Dury committed sin. Drona's asking his thumb would have been a sin if eklavya refused and he forced him to give or took/cut forcefully as gurudakshina.🤣🤣🤣

2.Arjun was a prodigy? Yes. No doubts on it. He was. But your comments on how Karna and Eklavya were not is unacceptable.They all did not get the right degree of shikshan. When you all get the same education, treatment and challenges, let us declare who is better and who is not. Now you'll say IITs are not best engineers, let local engineering college people get the same education as them and let us decide. Ok, even if i take your words, Arjun learned from Drona, Karna learned from Drona's guru. Ye hua education. Treatment? I did not read anywhere if Parshuram tortured Karna, he didnot even ask for any guru dakshina. Challenges? Let us not go there. There are many threads in I-F which answered this. I wont compare, because being/proving better and superiority i something i cant do, Krishna said, One should not struggle to be better/superior but be a one man army and form a league of own. Be in a way where others compare themselves to you (being on par with you or superior to you) but you need not.

3. Parashurama's revenge being glorified by ⭐️CVs as a social service is utter rubbish. I have no further comments on that. Parshurama is a Lord, Like Rama and Krishna. One can read everything about him in Srimad Bhaghavatam, but i'm sure not many are interested in it because it does not have a fiction type story nor any controversies nor any tragic heroes.

4. Ambition is the trait of a Kshatriya. He may have been brought up as a Suta, but the Kshatriya inside him cannot settle for anything less than what he deserves. As I said making your talent known at a platform where his talent deserves to be is no sin. I did not say he should settle for anything less than he deserves. I echo ur last sentence, make your talent known at a platform where talent deserves to be, not at a wrong place.

5. If he could earn the platform hard earned he would have done that. But you should tell me how a Suta would get to showcase his unparalleled skills to the world. He has this aura in him "Chase greatness, not mediocrity" Now when did I say he should settle for mediocrity? And how can he showcase his skills and where can he get the platform i have answered that already. I'll answer it again now. Instead of ghusofying in rangmanch for princes he could have made his entry in rangmanch for people, showcase his skills, of course they are so great that he could have earned a highest post in military, or even a kingdom like Anga instead of getting it from Dritrashtra from Dury's recommendation and get trapped in favours business. He wouldnt have needed to side adhamis and take his own decisions freely. Kisi ki baap ki sunne ki zaroorat nahi padti.

6.Dury may have began this friendship for a selfish motive. Karna was overwhelmed by the respect offered to him by a young prince. Later Karna must have understood why Dury befriended him, but was already too late. ( But their friendship was true, not like⭐️MB showed it) Ofcourse khairaat mein mil rahi hai toh overwhelm hoga hi. Anyways, i dont declare their friendship is true because it was never tested in first place. Ghisoge nahi toh pataa kaise chalega khara hai ya sona. Bas dekhke keh nahi sakte ki sona hai.

7. Same here. All characters in MB are flawed. I really dont understand how some people turn blind eye to the flaws of so called good people. All humans are flawed. But people point of flaws of good people to defend bad ones. Like Yudi is bad because he staked Panchali and pandavas because they were quite at her disrobing but no one wants to see that they ACCEPTED it and thirteen years exile they took it as a PUNISHMENT to RECTIFY it. That made him good and even great. But what exactly did Kauravas do to rectify? They did not even accept, rectifying comes later. Hence they are bad, as simple as that. There is no rocket science in it. Only God is flawless, he is beyond wrong and right. Hence only Krishna is flawless and no human has even an iota of understanding of his kaands, hence they are called LEELA - ones which humans cant understand. Hence no one to judge him what he did, how he did, there must he reason only known to him and we need not know them, Not even Arjuna knows them. He just followed him.

Originally posted by: ..dreamygatz..

See even if I take your iit example, let me ask if one is worth to b there, why should he be not allowed to be there? Why should one settle for ordinary when he can achieve best...why should he compromise on his dreams and desires just because his situation is not favourable like that of the royal prince? I answered this above. I never said he should settle for ordinary, rest you can read above, i cannot answer again and again. Now if i answer you'll circle it and ask again the same question in a different way.

PS: earlier you mentioned about what karna gave punting was vachan n not daan. ...wateva, he could have clearly refused the vachan to a lady who abandoned him as a little baby in the river n despite knowing it's her son later never bothered to accept him... once in vain I tried to like this lady, now I regret it...big time... Let him refuse, roka kisne hai. Anyways, i dont think anyone should hate Kunti, being a woman. Because i want to see how many woman on hearing such a boon would not be excited and try it, and how many being unmarried will accept their child? These days there are abortion techniques, unfortunately not in those days. When being common girls, they cant accept how can a princess and would be queen and then a rajmaata would do it and risk her other children's future for one child. She did wrong, but what option she has, unlike Karna who had many options. People feel sorry for Karna inspite of all his misdeeds and sins but not Kunti who was helpless, I call it hypocrisy. This is how we judge unmarried mothers even these days inspite of so many advancements then think of those times. Atleast she did not kill him and revealed it at some moment instead of wiping away beneath carpet.

All this argument was said by star Krishna n not epic Krishna...so ... Yes, this is argument by StarKrishna and i wonder what happens when we bring epic krishna's argument of giving tit-for-tat, Kurukshetra-II would start in the forum.😆