Kunti's Dilemma: Karna or Arjun - Page 3

wonderful post TM

personally dont blame kunti for abandoning karna for the very reason you mentioned.It was wrong but a human action had i been in kunti's place i would have done the same perhaps.

i only blame her for never accepting karna as her son after rangbhoomi but only accepting it when it suited her.If accepting karna as a son would have affected her social status or soceity would have demeaned her then the same would have happened if karna would have accepted kunti's offer before the war .So what made kunti risk he social status before the war rather than after rangbhoomi?Only for the sake of her 5 sons.I just wish if she was ready to risk her social status for her 5 sons before the war she could have taken the same risk for karna's sake also after rangbhoomi

and to answer your question had kunti accepted karna as her son after rangbhoomi he would have been considered as a pandav.The same was pointed out by krishna ji in the epic when he goes to karna with his offer.Also as per shastras of that time any son born out of your wife's womb was considered to be husband's son that is why the 5 panadavs are considered pandu's sons despite having different biological father's.And being the jesht pandav would have changed karn's life in several ways.

Regarding kunti's guilt for karna or her revealing the truth of karna's sake.I dont agree with either.If any one can post any citation from the epic where kunti showed even slightest concern for karna after abandoning him would love to read it.Below is the citation when kunti decides to reveal to karna his truth i dont see a slightest concern or care for karna

Hearing these words uttered by Vidura, who always wished her sons the accomplishment of their objects, Kunti began to sigh heavily, afflicted with grief, and began to think within herself, 'Fie to wealth, for the sake of which this great slaughter of kinsmen is about to take place. Indeed, in this war, they that are friends will sustain defeat. What can be a greater grief than this that the Pandavas, the Chedis,the Panchalas, and the Yadavas, assembled together, will fight with the Bharatas? Verily, I behold demerit in war. (On the other hand) if we do not fight, poverty and humiliation would be ours. As regards the person that is poor, even death is beneficial (to him). (On the other band) the extermination of one's kinsmen is not victory. As I reflect on this, my heart swelleth with sorrow. The grandsire (Bhishma), the son of Santanu, the preceptor (Drona), who is the foremost of warriors, and Karna, having embraced Duryodhana's side, enhance my fears. The preceptor Drona, it seemeth to me, will never fight willingly against his pupils. As regards the Grandsire, why will he not show some affection for the Pandavas? There is only this sinful Karna then, of deluded understanding and ever following the deluded lead of the wicked Duryodhana, that hateth the Pandavas. Obstinately pursuing that which injureth the Pandavas, this Karna is, again, very powerful. It is this which burneth me at present. Proceeding to gratify him. I will today disclose the truth and seek to draw his heart towards the Pandavas

The way i understand this is that kunti didnt want this war because if panadavs dint fight poverty would be theirs and if they did fight still poverty would be theirs also she didn't want kinsmen to kill each other.She was sure Bhishma and Drona wont hurt panadavs because they care about panadvas but wasn't sure about karna and since he was very powerful she wanted to weaken his resolve to fight pandavas

atleast i cant sense any concern for karna here

Definitely kunti cant be blamed for everything that went wrong in Karna's life.There were some wrong decisions karna took on his own like his support to duryodhan or his participation in Draupadi's humilation.Those were karna's own decision and kunti cant be blamed for it

But definitely kunti is to be blamed for karna's struggle to find a place in kshatraiya world that was rightfully his .She can definitely be blamed for karna not getting the rights of being the jesht pandav that he was.

As far as soceity is concerned yes society can be blamed for forcing a woman to abandon her child but i dont hink there was any societal pressure on her because of which she didn't accept karna after rangbhoomi because the same pressure would have existed before the war as well.So if she could disregard societal pressure before the war she could have also dont it after the rangbhoomi.She didnt do it because she dint care about what happens to karna.

I do not find fault with her for abandoning the child. She was far too immature to handle such a decision at the young age and the societal pressures would have added to her woes

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

I do not find fault with her for abandoning the child. She was far too immature to handle such a decision at the young age and the societal pressures would have added to her woes

Now let me consider her situation when she saw Karna later in life. She was the mother of 5 Pandavas. What if she decided to tell the truth. How would Pandavas would have taken it. As seen we know that all the 5 pandavas revere Kunti. They treated her as the epitome of virtue. So to such grown up sons how can a mother tell that before she married their father she had a son. She would have feared the consequences of losing her son's love and faith. And at that point that was all Kunti had. She was widowed at a young age. Her children were constantly at threat from Kauravas. They were her only hope. So I take it as the fact that she didnt accept Karna because of fear of oscatratcation by her other 5 children.

Now coming to Karna. Karna is the classic example of a right person in wrong company. If one view his life he was a person with values unlike Duryodhana and Shakuni who were pure evil. But unfortunately for him the way he took their help made him in the bad company. His life is also an example that " All that glitters is not gold ". I mean in those days caste system was very rigid. So the fact that Duryodhana and Shakuni made him a king should have rung alarm bells in him, that indeed they want something from him out of the way. It's a true learning to everyone in present era also that if we are getting something which doesnt seem right, beware, observe before accepting the offer. Else you will also end up like Karna who could have lived a glorious life, but had to compromise everytime on the values because of the help he took.

Now coming to Kunti telling the truth to Karna and come to Pandava side. As far as I understand it , it is Krishna who forces her to do that. It was a 2 way strategy by Krishna. If Karna accepts the proposal then war can be won without any major bloodshed. As with Karna in Pandava side Duryodhana would not have dared to go for the war as Kauravas had no reply to Arjuna.

If Karna didnt accept then Krishna had succeeded in weakneing Karna and indeed Karna does give Kunti a boon that she will always have 5 sons and he will kill only Arjuna. So Karna vowing not to kill 4 of the Pandava brothers was a major diplomatic coup by Krishna, which otherwise would have been a different story.

So Kunti according to me was no saint. She did things as she thought right as per the circumstances. She didnt show any partiality to Nakul or Sahadeva. She raised the 5 Pandavas equally well and have been able to instill good values in them. I would say she was a human with faults who was tested by destiny from a very young age.

Originally posted by: simplysappie

A very nicely thought out post . You've covered almost all aspects related to the issue n I agree with you on the society issue . But my only dilemma is if she came to Karna n revealed the truth , why didn't she tell the same to the pandavs too ?? How can anyone justify this act of her . Duryodhan's only strength was Karna . And this revelation at the nth hour weakened Karna's mental condition n barred him to kill other pandavas too . Kunti knew that Karna would be broken after knowing the truth , will think emotionally and not like a warrior of the opponent's army . What is this if not a shrewd political move?? If she had any intention to reveal the truth n get Karna back why didn't she do it earlier ? After her son(Yudhisthir) became the king of an independent kingdom . There was no reason to keep the secret then . Things would've been far better .

Originally posted by: srishtisingh

nice post amritat! I do have my sympathy towards kunti and karna both! I do understand kunti decision be it due to social or political reasons! not necessarily I like it! abt karna I always am in between position, because though I understand his actions and why he did many things still many mistakes I did not expect from him! because imo he had guts to rise above those! still in mb no one was perfect so I ignore it! I think karna would have been much happier if he was never near to hastinapur but I think it was his destiny (though I donot believe in such stuffs)

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

wonderful post TM

personally dont blame kunti for abandoning karna for the very reason you mentioned.It was wrong but a human action had i been in kunti's place i would have done the same perhaps.

i only blame her for never accepting karna as her son after rangbhoomi but only accepting it when it suited her.If accepting karna as a son would have affected her social status or soceity would have demeaned her then the same would have happened if karna would have accepted kunti's offer before the war .So what made kunti risk he social status before the war rather than after rangbhoomi?Only for the sake of her 5 sons.I just wish if she was ready to risk her social status for her 5 sons before the war she could have taken the same risk for karna's sake also after rangbhoomi

and to answer your question had kunti accepted karna as her son after rangbhoomi he would have been considered as a pandav.The same was pointed out by krishna ji in the epic when he goes to karna with his offer.Also as per shastras of that time any son born out of your wife's womb was considered to be husband's son that is why the 5 panadavs are considered pandu's sons despite having different biological father's.And being the jesht pandav would have changed karn's life in several ways.

Regarding kunti's guilt for karna or her revealing the truth of karna's sake.I dont agree with either.If any one can post any citation from the epic where kunti showed even slightest concern for karna after abandoning him would love to read it.Below is the citation when kunti decides to reveal to karna his truth i dont see a slightest concern or care for karna

Hearing these words uttered by Vidura, who always wished her sons the accomplishment of their objects, Kunti began to sigh heavily, afflicted with grief, and began to think within herself, 'Fie to wealth, for the sake of which this great slaughter of kinsmen is about to take place. Indeed, in this war, they that are friends will sustain defeat. What can be a greater grief than this that the Pandavas, the Chedis,the Panchalas, and the Yadavas, assembled together, will fight with the Bharatas? Verily, I behold demerit in war. (On the other hand) if we do not fight, poverty and humiliation would be ours. As regards the person that is poor, even death is beneficial (to him). (On the other band) the extermination of one's kinsmen is not victory. As I reflect on this, my heart swelleth with sorrow. The grandsire (Bhishma), the son of Santanu, the preceptor (Drona), who is the foremost of warriors, and Karna, having embraced Duryodhana's side, enhance my fears. The preceptor Drona, it seemeth to me, will never fight willingly against his pupils. As regards the Grandsire, why will he not show some affection for the Pandavas? There is only this sinful Karna then, of deluded understanding and ever following the deluded lead of the wicked Duryodhana, that hateth the Pandavas. Obstinately pursuing that which injureth the Pandavas, this Karna is, again, very powerful. It is this which burneth me at present. Proceeding to gratify him. I will today disclose the truth and seek to draw his heart towards the Pandavas

The way i understand this is that kunti didnt want this war because if panadavs dint fight poverty would be theirs and if they did fight still poverty would be theirs also she didn't want kinsmen to kill each other.She was sure Bhishma and Drona wont hurt panadavs because they care about panadvas but wasn't sure about karna and since he was very powerful she wanted to weaken his resolve to fight pandavas

atleast i cant sense any concern for karna here

t

Originally posted by: Medha.S

Excellent Post girl. You sound like a lawyer weighing the pros and cons.

Actually, I don't really think much about her. She raised her three and Madris two right. Out of all the Mothers, it was her who gave birth two three and raised five children in the forest. They were born in the forest, grew up there till Yudhishthira was a teenager and somehow were satisfied with whatever they had got in the forest life. Didn't have earning Father or a market near by two buy this and that. They truly were Vanwaasis.

Even with all of that i wonder why the Pandavas didn't grew up to hate the HP folks. Pitamah, Dhrit and all of them for letting them live in a damn forest and be raised there while the 100 cousins were raised with all the luxuries and spoilt to death like the prince they were. Like it was there Father who was doing his prayaschit, why the children?

Amazingly, they were ever respectful towards all the elders even when not all of them were interested in treating them like children of their family. Wouldn't it have been funny if they blamed all the elders for being discriminatory, caring more about the Kauravas and not giving a damn about the forest children.

And after they were elders themselves, they were never protesting against the elders, definitely never insulted them at every chance and certainly not tried to manipulate them.

But every bad thing an elder does cant be blamed on the parents and upbringing, it is their own mentality and thinking. Same way, every good thing someone does is not because of the parents either.

But parents do have a hand in shaping up the child. Like every pathetic thing Duryodhana and Dusashana do can't be blamed on Gandhari and Dhrit and their awful parenting or complete lack of it.But they can't just totally separate themselves away from it.

Kunti turns out to be a better mother than anyone else. The thing about how she could have done this and done that, well that goes for all the characters. All of them could have done many things differently, some more so than others. You could put and If on every other event happening there.

Obviously, she made mistakes too. So should we start blaming her Father for all her mistakes and all the miseries in her life too?

Had he not gave her away to another Man, Kunti could have been Pritha for the rest of her life. She wouldn't have to be in Kuntibhoj and deal with Durvasa. Perhaps her life would have been much more easier and happier if she was not abandoned. She could have had her brother and helped in raising her nephews with Yashoda and Rohini. A truly different life than the one she had to lead. She could have had the love of her brother and be a bigger part of her nephew's lives. Oh, what only if this had happened and that had not happened. Only if her Parent had done this instead of that.

I would like to think that Kunti did not really care about Karna. I mean she did not raise him, they did not spend decades and decades together like Pandavas and Kunti but that would be immature of him. Because she was the one who gave birth to him so obviously she had feelings towards him. They just weren't as strong as they were for the Pandavas. And it really was about how she had raised those five under such pathetic circumstances for she did not gave birth two the Twins but loved them fiercely anyways.

But i was reading the Rangbhoomi thing and Kunti was very pleased when Karna became the Angaraj.

"And Kunti, recognising her son in Karna by the various auspicious marks on his person and beholding him installed in the sovereignty of Anga, was from motherly affection, very pleased

And as said, you can only blame the parents for all the good and disgusting things the children do as adults only so much. She was as much of a culprit in this situation as Dhrit and Gandhari were in their own big bad situation. Even less since she did not have any hand in raising him.

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Definitely kunti cant be blamed for everything that went wrong in Karna's life.There were some wrong decisions karna took on his own like his support to duryodhan or his participation in Draupadi's humilation.Those were karna's own decision and kunti cant be blamed for it

But definitely kunti is to be blamed for karna's struggle to find a place in kshatraiya world that was rightfully his .She can definitely be blamed for karna not getting the rights of being the jesht pandav that he was.

As far as soceity is concerned yes society can be blamed for forcing a woman to abandon her child but i dont hink there was any societal pressure on her because of which she didn't accept karna after rangbhoomi because the same pressure would have existed before the war as well.So if she could disregard societal pressure before the war she could have also dont it after the rangbhoomi.She didnt do it because she dint care about what happens to karna.