'Mahabharat- Different Versions -Perspectives' - Page 49

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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Sukanya_Datta

An interesting article:

As described in a number of the Puranas and Mahabharat, it was considered the deadliest weapon. It was said that when the Brahmastra was discharged, there was neither a counterattack nor a defense that could stop it, except by Brahmadanda, a stick also created by Brahma. The Brahmastra never missed its mark and had to be used with very specific intent against an individual enemy or army, as the target would face complete annihilation.It could only be used once in a day. The user would have to display immense amounts of mental concentration. According to ancient Sanskrit writings, the Brahmastra is invoked by a key phrase or invocation that is bestowed upon the user when given this weapon. Through this invocation the user can call upon the weapon and use it via a medium against his adversary,The target, when hit by Brahmastra, would be utterly destroyed. Brahma had created a weapon even more powerful than the Brahmastra, called the Brahmashira. The Brahmashira was never used in war, as it had four times more power than the Brahmastra, i.e. Fourth power square, as the name suggests, since Brahma has Four Heads. Only Bhishma, Arjuna, Ashwatthama, Drona and Karna possessed the knowledge to summon the Brahmashira. However, Ashwatthama possessed the knowledge only to summon and not retract it.
Putting religion aside, is this weapon actually possible?. As we know that every nuclear weapon need some code to activate it and without the weapon is just a dead weight, same thing exist in brahmastra. Secondly the role of brahmadanda, its pretty much existent in today's nuclear weapon where you can destroy nuclear missile in mid air without harming anyone. Thirdly, brahmastra can strike on a specific designated target the same thing which can be seen on today's heat seeking missile(but pretty useless if you hide your body heat). So if the brahmastra was possible(within 100 years, and hoping discovering of Tesla becoming official such weapon can be possible), was it ever used?
As per many ancient astronaut theorist it is believed that such thing was used on Harappa and Mohan Jo Daro leading to its weird and still unknown way of collapse.Weird radioactive reading found on the site lead to the belief of the concept(even though not officially reported).
(There are many debunks available in the internet and we are personally not endorsing the theory to be true but still its a conception accepted by many experts)
Its not just Brahmastra, there are other scientific things/practices and advanced weaponry which can also be found in our holy books. So the only question that remains is who made it. If our ancestors didn't made it on their own(or discovered it on the knowledge available without taking any sort of help) then who made it or introduce it to them?
Still think Sanatan Dharma based on fairy tales?

I was always convinced MB is History, not Mythology. Varunastra, Agniastra, Vayuastra are forces of nature (water, fire, air respectively) harnessed by warriors using special chants.
P.S: While Brahmastra was possessed by the above mentioned, Brahmashira was only possessed by Bhisma, Drona, Ashwatthama and Arjun.
bheegi thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Here is Arjun pledging to kill Jaidrath after Abhimanyu's death...his raudra avatar:
Here is a citation from CE that describes how angry Arjun was with his brothers after Abhi's death:


How could Subhadra's son then have been slain, even if he had encountered the wielder of the vajra himself? Had I known that the Pandus and the Panchalas were incapable of protecting my son in battle, I would have protected him myself. All of you were stationed on your chariots and were shooting arrows. How could the enemy repulse you and kill Abhimanyu? You have no manliness. Nor do you possess any valour. While you looked on, Abhimanyu has been brought down in the battle. Perhaps I should censure myself, since I know that all of you are extremely weak. I went away, knowing that you are useless and cowards. Alas! Your armour, weapons and arms are only ornaments on your hands. Your words are only meant for assemblies. You could not protect my son.' Having spoken these words, he sat down, with the supreme bow and sword in his hands. No one was capable of looking at Bibhatsu then. He sighed repeatedly in anger and looked like the Destroyer himself. He was overcome with grief on account of his son and his face was bathed in tears. With the exception of Vasudeva and the eldest son of Pandu, no one amongst the well-wishers was capable of glancing at him, or speaking to him. Those two were always acceptable to Arjuna and he listened to them.

Here is Arjuna pledging to kill Jaidrath:
Vasava's son became unconscious with rage. He seemed to tremble, as if in a fever, and sighed repeatedly. He squeezed one hand with another and sighed, eyes bathed in tears. His glances were like one who was mad. He spoke these words. Know this to be the truth. I will kill Jayadratha tomorrow. I will slay him, unless out of fear, he abandons the sons of Dhritarashtra, or seeks refuge with us, or seeks sanctuary with Purushottama Krishna, or with you. O great king! I will kill Jayadratha tomorrow. Engaged in doing what is pleasant to the sons of Dhritarashtra, he has forgotten his friendship with me. The evil one has been the reason behind the death of the child. I will kill Jayadratha tomorrow. Wishing to protect him, whoever fights with me, even if it is the brave Drona or Kripa, will be covered by me with arrows. O bulls among men! O brave and revered ones! If I do not achieve this in the battle, let me not attain the worlds meant for those with meritorious deeds. There are worlds meant for those who kill their mothers and those who kill their fathers, for those who have intercourse with the wives of their teachers and for those who are wicked, for those who hate virtuous ones and speak ill of others, for those who misappropriate wealth left in their custody and for those who violate trust and for those who speak ill of women they have enjoyed earlier. There are worlds for those who kill brahmanas and those who kill cattle. There are worlds for those who eat payasa, 153 food made of barley, herbs, dishes made of sesamum, cakes and meat without offering them to the gods first. If I do not kill Jayadratha, let those worlds be mine.

There are worlds attained by those who touch brahmanas, cattle and fire with their feet and those who release phlegm, excreta and urine in water. If I do not kill Jayadratha, let those terrible ends be mine. There are ends obtained by those who bathe naked and those who do not serve guests. There are ends obtained by those who take bribes, those who are liars and those who are deceitful, those who harm their own souls and those who speak false praises. There are ends obtained by wretches who eat sweetmeats in the sight of servants, sons, wives and dependents, without offering them a share. If I do not kill Jayadratha, let those terrible ends be mine. There are ends obtained by those who abandon virtuous and obedient dependents and those evil-souled ones who censure those who have done them good deeds. There are ends for those who do not give deserving neighbours shares in shraddha 154 offerings, for those who give to the undeserving, for those who have alliances with women of low caste, 155 for those who are drunkards, for those who disrespect those who deserve honour, those who are ungrateful and those who speak ill of their brothers. If I do not kill Jayadratha, let those ends swiftly be mine. I have recounted the ends of those who do not follow dharma and there are others that I have not enumerated. If tomorrow's night passes without my having killed Jayadratha, let those ends swiftly become mine. Listen to another pledge that I am taking. If tomorrow's sun sets without my having killed the wretched one, I will enter the blazing fire at this spot. O asuras! O gods! O men! O birds! O serpents! O ancestors!

Debroy, Bibek (2012-11-15). Mahabharata Vol. 6 (Penguin Translated Texts) (p. 54). Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition.
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Posted: 11 years ago
Interesting blog on Abhimanyu and Ghatotkach:


What I wish to discuss, in fact, is their respective prodigal sons - Ghatotkachand Abhimanyu - and the great similarity they share in life as well as death.

I mean, look at the two. Both are born to great fathers - Ghatotkach to Bhima, son of Vayu, and Abhimanyu to Arjuna, son of Indra. With that lineage, both are grandsons of Adityas (i.e. sons of Diti Aditi and Kashyap, son of Marichi, one of the Saptarshis). -- Typo on Aditi - identified by a reader. Thank you!

Although, both are sons born to Pandavas - Bhima and Arjuna - they are from their wives other than Draupadi. Ghatotkacha is born to Hidimba, the princess of Hidimbavana, while Abhimanyu is born to Subhadra, sister of Krishna and therefore princess of Dwaraka. Ghatotkach is the only son of Hidimba, so is Abhimanyu of Subhadra.

Both are born when their fathers were in exile / hiding.

The marriage of their respective parents is preceeded by some unpleasant event - like killing of Hidimb Rakshasa in case of Ghatotkach and Subhadra-harana (abduction - carrying away if you please - of Subhadra by Arjuna from Dwaraka) in case of Abhimanyu. Both these events have a potential of turning really ugly for the Pandavas - like sister Hidimba could have got furious and killed all the brothers as a revenge, and the Yadavas could have waged a war against Pandavas at Indraprastha, where Arjuna took Subhadra. However, both the events turn out to be good for the Pandavas - and end up in matrimony.

Both the children grow up away from their fathers, but near their mothers - Ghatotkach in Hidimbavana and Abhimanyu in Dwaraka. Both are taught warfare, but that must be true for all Kshatriya kids.

Both know Shastra (hand-weapons) as well as Astra (missiles and special weaponary) vidya. Moreover, Ghatotkach is known for his Maya vidya (illusions) - being a half-Rakshasa by birth. In fact, in Tamilnadu, there is a folklore about how Abhimanyu is also an incarnate demon from Ramayana age. That makes both of them half-Rakshasas.

Both are known for their prowess in their father's weapon more than their famous fathers -Ghatotkach was superior wielder of mace than Bhima and Abhimanyu was greater than Arjuna in archery.

Both fight the Great War on the side of their fathers - the Pandavas - and are legendary for their bravery and the havoc they created for the enemy side the Kauravas. Ghatotkach fights shoulder to shoulder with Dhrishtadyunma, Pandava's commander in chief, and is known to be one of the fiercest warriors on this side. Abhimanyu is so proficient in warfare than Kauravas think that there are not one, but two Arjunas - the first being the real Arjuna and the second being his great son who resembles his father in prowess and valor.

Both kill thousands and thousands of enemies, and overpower great warriors.

Both die tragic deaths in the Great War.

Both die on the battlefield within a span of a day - Abhimanyu first and then Ghatotkach. This is during the 13th and 14th day of the war.

Indeed, these two death are crucial, landmark, and cornerstones in the war, and ensure the victory of Pandavas.

Both are killed by means beyond their regular fighting abilities - Ghatotkach by a divine missile and Abhimanyu by the overpowering attack of six people together against one.

The death of Abhimanyu is much known and celebrated --- the way he takes charge of breaking on his own the Chakravyuha created by Drona when Arjuna is gone away to fight with the Samsaptaka army, how he breaks into the Vyuha, how the other Pandavas are stopped by the barely-known Jayadratha (or Saindhava) by a quirk boon given to him by Lord Shiva that he will be able to fight the four Pandavas (except Arjuna) for one day, how the Kaurava warriors crowd around him, how Karna breaks Abhimanyu's bow from behind, how he charges towards Drona with a chariot wheel --- the images of this battle form a poignant tale in itself, and Abhimanyu's name is considered synonymous with fearless bravery and valor.

Ghatotkach takes on him the great Shakti - a weapon given to Karna by Indra himself - and is killed. Radheya Karna has been saving this Shakti for Arjuna, but Ghatotkach is causing a havoc in the Kaurava army. Something is necessary to stop him and so Duryodhana asks Karna to use Shakti on Ghatotkach. When Karna, albeit reluctantly, uses his Shakti on Ghatotkach and he is killed, Krishna is known to utter "the victory is ours for sure now".

Ghatotkach's death follows with father Bhima showering his wrath on the Kaurava army and especially the Kaurava brothers, while Abhimanyu's death forces father Arjuna to take the terrible oath of killing Jayadratha in a day or committing suicide.

Both these deaths happen during the Drona Parva - the five days where Drona becomes the commander of Duryodhana's army. This is also the turning point in the ways of the world - as the laws of Dharmayudha (like fighting with the opponent of same caliber, fighting with the same weapon, fighting only during the daytime, not using Astras against common populationor those who have no countermeasures for them etc.) are all abandoned - and marks the beginning of Kali Yuga although nowadays people consider Kali Yuga to actually start from Krishna's death much later after the war was over.

In any case, coming back to Bhima and Arjuna, the current versions of Mahabharata give a far more elaborate emphasis on Abhimanyu's death as compared to Ghatotkach's death, which I think is an injustice. In fact, there is an overall tendency to show Ghatotkach as lesser than Abhimanyu, just as Bhima is usually depicted as a hero lesser than Arjuna.

There is also a story about how, much before the events in the Great War, Abhimanyu fights Ghatotkach once in Hidimbavan, and overpowers the Rakshasa although Ghatotkach is much elder to Abhimanyu. Only when Hidimba anxiously calls out Ghatotkach in despair as "Bhimsena's son", does Abhimanyu come to know who he is fighting against and stops. Later, when they recognize each other and are happy to find their relationship, Ghatotkach takes care of Abhimany and helps him marry Shashirekha, Balarama's daughter too.

However, the story looks like a major fabricated addition of later times - an effort to show how Abhimanyu was a greater warrior than Ghatotkach. The timelines don't match, the character of Ghatotkach is almost a caricature of what he is in the actual Mahabharata (also driven by the fact that he is a half-Rakshasa) and there is no further mention of Shashirekha in Mahabharat later. Abhimanyu is said to have married Uttara, daughter of king Virata and fathered Parikshit. So there are a lot of loose ends to this story, and I would like to leave it at that.

Whatever your viewpoint is, one thing is certain
-- Ghatotkach and Abhimanyu - these two boys stand as pillars of invincible strength and great inspiration, and their glory seems unfaded, rather their names shine brighter as time goes by.


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Posted: 11 years ago
If Arjun was SO angry with his bros after Abhi's death, he could've "offed" his own bros instead of Jayadratha, no? Why didn't he?
Serious question I'm asking...

And, do any of the versions talk about Arjun displaying a similar raudra roop after the UpaPs were killed (one of whom was his own son with Draupadi)?
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: -Shani-

If Arjun was SO angry with his bros after Abhi's death, he could've "offed" his own bros instead of Jayadratha, no? Why didn't he?

Serious question I'm asking...

And, do any of the versions talk about Arjun displaying a similar raudra roop after the UpaPs were killed (one of whom was his own son with Draupadi)?


I didn't post the subsequent convo where Yudi explains why the 4 Pandav brothers couldn't help because of Jaidrath's boon. That's why Arjun pledges to kills Jaidrath

No, Arjun didn't have the smilier response after UpaP's died...it was mainly Draupadi who screamed and lamented
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Posted: 11 years ago
Check out a rare response of rage and revenge by Yudishtra: Vyas had to himself intervene here

When Abhimanyu was killed , none of us was near him; but Ghatotkacha died before our eyes. What was the point in killing Jayadratha for Abhimanyu's death? Drona and Karna were to blame and they have not paid for what they did. Even now, no one speaks of killing Karna for what he has done to our precious child." Then, rage grips Yudhishtira. He rises, quivering. "But I will not leave him alive. I will avenge my Ghatotkacha tonight!" Not looking back at Krishna, Yudhishtira climbs into his chariot. Krishna runs to Arjuna. In this mood, Yudhishtira must be guarded closely. In alarm, Krishna and Arjuna watch him make his way round the rest of the army. He means to ride at Karna through the Kaurava ranks. They pursue him as swiftly as they can. Suddenly, a glowing figure looms before Yudhishtira's chariot in the night. His horses rear, neighing, in fear of the dark, matt-haired apparition that bars their way. Tossing their manes, they stop still before that wild and holy one. Vyasa says quietly to his Pandava grandson, "Ghatotkacha's death was written long ago, Yudhishtira. He was born to die for you. You must not give in to sorrow; all your army depends on you. If Karna had not killed Ghatotkacha with the Shakti, Arjuna would have died by it. And then this war would really have been in vain: for then, not you, but Duryodhana would have sat upon the throne of the world." Yudhishtira stands, hands folded, his good sense slowly returning to him. Vyasa continues, "Just five days more, Yudhishtira. Five days more and victory will be yours. Five days and you will be lord of the earth and the light of dharma will shine again in the dark world. And those whom you want to see punished for what they have done shall be dead. Go back to your brothers. You will achieve nothing by riding out like this, except getting yourself killed; and if you do, everything will truly be lost."


Menon, Ramesh (2012-12-09). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering (Kindle Locations 21531-21534). . Kindle Edition.
Rehanism thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
I just completed reading Ajaya by Anand Neelakantan. First, this book is definitely not for the conservatives and the religious lot, as Krishna is portrayed as a psychopath and a narcissist. Like a cult leader he wholeheartedly believes himself to be the god incarnate who has descended upon earth to re-establish the (Varnashrama) dharma and all his actions and grand plans are based on this belief. He's intensely charming and manipulative and has managed to create a halo around himself while eliminating all his opponents in cold blood with treachery and the excuse of greater good. Such is his cult of personality that he not only has followers like Arjun and Bhima who commit murder and use unfair means at his behest, but even blind sadomasochist devotees who consider being tramped by Krishna's chariot to be the reward of all the life's works. The most chilling moment of his personality is felt when he encourages Arjuna to massacre the naga tribes of Khandava in cold blood (men, women and children being shot and burnt alive), while coolly assuring him that all of them will be granted Moksha. It reminds you of people like Shoko Asahara, the self proclaimed Christ and leader of Aum Shinrikyo, who poison gassed a subway with the conviction that he's offering salvation to his victims.

Now comes the hero Duryodhan, err..Suyodhan - the ultimate socialist. He's the best friend of the poor and his heart bleeds at the thought of shooting a bird. Both Karna and Ashwathama (his best friends) are more grey than him. His contention with the Pandas is based on their mistreatment of the poor and pariahs and massacre of the indigenous tribes in their city, Indraprastha, and his dream of social equality. He settles for the game of dice (as opposed to war) only because he didn't want unnecessary bloodshed of the innocents. Karna is more insecure and sensitive, who though has more admirers than in the Vyasa's epic (Kripa, Ashwathama, Drupad, Jarasandha etc), is still affected most by Draupadi's betrayal and repeated insults.

The book ends with a vindictive Karna ordering Draupadi to be dragged to the court and a rather reluctant Duryodhan reaffirming the command when reminded of the many insults she inflicted on him and Karna, by Shakuni.

I think if you can put aside the Mahabharat you know and read the novel as a fresh piece, its really intriguing one. (That's what I do with most adaptions and perhaps that's why I don't have much problem with 'distortions'). I guess the author tried to tell us, how with subtle changes the victors managed to rewrite history in their favour. Over all I liked the book and I am waiting for the second part The Rise of Kali, that releases on 15th August.

Edited by Rehanism - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
I don't know but like it is TRUE for many novels I read, if the traits or chatarization of its character is reversed (especially my fabs) its hard for me to like that fanfiction or alternative versions, though it can really b a great literary work. like POI is indeed an engaging book but was not in accordance with my taste so found it a bit difficult to digest. still one book I am planning to read is aryavart chronicles. hope it turns out to b good for me
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Posted: 11 years ago
Found this article on FB:

MAHABHARAT-UNKNOWN FACTS
THE BLUE LORD
Ever wondered why Krishna is represented in Dark Blue Hue(more towards violet side of the spectrum).Some attribute this to his darkness of skin.But even Arjuna was dark(one of his names was Krishna).Then why wasn't Arjuna represented in such a shade??
Anything that seems to be out of limits of Human perception tends to be blue.Look at skies,oceans etc. which are unbounded in human perception.
That's why sometimes. even Lord Ram and Lord Shiva are also represented in blue shade.
But this is a devotee's point of view.Nothing wrong with it.But there's another explanation.
--The Yogi's Perspective(Maybe Physicist's too)--
The Yogic perspective says that Krishna had a Dark blue Aura(More of violet).But what's an Aura??
We all know each and every thought and action of ours results into an electric impulses in our body through nerves.It's an established fact that Electric and Magnetic fields are intertwined .Thus an Electromagnetic field is formed around the body called as an AURA.
Now ,wherever the density of nerves will be more the EM fields will be stronger.These dense nerve lines are believed to be Chakra centres if Human body.(A doctor says this).
Energy around every Chakra corresponds to a different frequency.
Eventually the colour an Aura assumes corresponds to the colour of the dominant Chakra(s) .
But there's something astonishing.From Sahasrara(crown) to Muladhara(base) the spectrum distribution corresponds to VIBGYOR.
Each colour has some significance.If you have::
Red Aura:Muladhara is dominant.You are mostly engrossed Survival
Orange Aura:Swadhisthana is dominant.You are mostly engrossed Sexuality.
Yellow Aura:Manipuraka dominates.Will power is your strength.
Green Aura:Anahata dominates.It is a center of Love,creativity.
Blue Aura:Vishuddhi(Throat) dominates.You are a master communicator and hence you grow powerful.
Indigo:Agna dominates.Your third eye is activated.Intution,Intellect are your strengths.
Violet:Sahasrasar is dominant.Spirituality is the main trait.
When you focus on all chakras your Aura goes white.Sometimes Krishna had this Aura too.But the people who were sensitive to such energies sensed a Dark Blue aura around him most of the time.
If you see his life his major traits were Intution,Clarity,Spirituality and being a master manipulator i.e his focus was on top three chakras.Thus his Aura had a dark blue hue which was a collective result of dominant top three chakras.
--Back to a devotee's view--
The Sky ,the oceans have represented vastness for centuries.
Similarly the Blue Lord is known for his Infinite nature for the past 5000 years.
Regards,
Prasad

Source: Link
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Rehanism

I just completed reading Ajaya by Anand Neelakantan. First, this book is definitely not for the conservatives and the religious lot, as Krishna is portrayed as a psychopath and a narcissist. Like a cult leader he wholeheartedly believes himself to be the god incarnate who has descended upon earth to re-establish the (Varnashrama) dharma and all his actions and grand plans are based on this belief. He's intensely charming and manipulative and has managed to create a halo around himself while eliminating all his opponents in cold blood with treachery and the excuse of greater good. Such is his cult of personality that he not only has followers like Arjun and Bhima who commit murder and use unfair means at his behest, but even blind sadomasochist devotees who consider being tramped by Krishna's chariot to be the reward of all the life's works. The most chilling moment of his personality is felt when he encourages Arjuna to massacre the naga tribes of Khandava in cold blood (men, women and children being shot and burnt alive), while coolly assuring him that all of them will be granted Moksha. It reminds you of people like Shoko Asahara, the self proclaimed Christ and leader of Aum Shinrikyo, who poison gassed a subway with the conviction that he's offering salvation to his victims.

Now comes the hero Duryodhan, err..Suyodhan - the ultimate socialist. He's the best friend of the poor and his heart bleeds at the thought of shooting a bird. Both Karna and Ashwathama (his best friends) are more grey than him. His contention with the Pandas is based on their mistreatment of the poor and pariahs and massacre of the indigenous tribes in their city, Indraprastha, and his dream of social equality. He settles for the game of dice (as opposed to war) only because he didn't want unnecessary bloodshed of the innocents. Karna is more insecure and sensitive, who though has more admirers than in the Vyasa's epic (Kripa, Ashwathama, Drupad, Jarasandha etc), is still affected most by Draupadi's betrayal and repeated insults.

The book ends with a vindictive Karna ordering Draupadi to be dragged to the court and a rather reluctant Duryodhan reaffirming the command when reminded of the many insults she inflicted on him and Karna, by Shakuni.

I think if you can put aside the Mahabharat you know and read the novel as a fresh piece, its really intriguing one. (That's what I do with most adaptions and perhaps that's why I don't have much problem with 'distortions'). I guess the author tried to tell us, how with subtle changes the victors managed to rewrite history in their favour. Over all I liked the book and I am waiting for the second part The Rise of Kali, that releases on 15th August.

I read a preview of the same book which mentioned how the 'noble' Duryodhan did not hit Dronacharya's bird-eye target out of 'compassion for the bird.'
I fell off in laughter, knowing fully well that the bird in question was a 'wooden bird.' in MB.
I wondered if the author will also have 'noble Duryodhan' claiming 'compassion for the fish' as an excuse for his failure at Draupadi's swayamwar???
The preview however convinced me to stay miles away from the book. Unless it is for the unexpected & unintended humor as in the preview.

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