*Season 2, Week 14* Analysis Thread - Page 8

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malikakas thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#71

Originally posted by: Aishu13


One of Dev's biggest flaw I realized is the fact that he is extremely guilt oriented.

Aishu, you've hit the nail on the head here. This is one of the reasons I strongly relate to his character. For me this is a character that has never really lived for himself. They say if you don't really love yourself, its hard to love someone else. Most of the issues Sonakshi has with Dev's "love" stems from the fact that he had a hard time loving himself without guilt.


This was something I wanted to discuss with Sam, when we were discussing male privilege and gender expectations with respect to a girl moving into a guy's house. I had started a response earlier but didn't have time to really get into it. So I hope its okay that I continue the discussion here. 😳


For me, the degree of guilt that was placed on Dev's character prevented him from having "male privilege" in the truest sense. Early on he was made to feel guilty about the advantages he enjoyed as a male, like the right to an education over Neha. So much so that he was basically "taught" that he was not "allowed" personal happiness without fulfillment of his family's happiness first (e.g. the honeymoon). Dev was required to take on the responsibility as the head male of the family but without the rights that are usually afforded to the head male of the family because he hadn't chosen it from a place of empowerment. Decisions that appeared seemingly his, always required the approval of Ishwari (like hiring Vicky in the company).


Going back to the previous discussion, in my opinion, Dev wouldn't have considered the idea of alternate living arrangements because his primary concern at that point in his life was clearing his debts-- i.e. taking care of his family and looking after his mother. IMO it was far less out of sense of male privilege or personal convenience. More than male privilege, I'd say it was male responsibility. Dev was made to be educated and successful OVER his sisters for that reason.


Obviously a lot of males in Indian culture are expected to look after their family, but I feel Dev got that message in a different way than people like Vicky or Saurabh or even Ranveer. I feel the latter 3 got the benefits of male privilege a lot more. Vicky and Saurabh could easily threaten their mothers that they would move out with their respective wives because they weren't consistently made to feel that they owed the family anything. If anything GKB instilled in Vicky a sense of entitlement that people should owe him. Ranveer's scenario was a lot closer to Dev's... but Ranveer was still taking on responsibility for his family from a place of male empowerment and maybe a little bit of male ego.

Dev, however, was emotionally manipulated into taking responsibility of his family from a place of guilt. Like the scene where Ishwari ensures Dev watches her humiliation to force him to work hard. Ishwari is a very complex character and I don't believe she is totally negative. But frankly she was a bit emotionally abusive towards Dev because of his status as a male. If anything she's more concerned about Neha not having a happy childhood than about Dev not having one.


So what Dev ended up learning was that he is not entitled to happiness unless his family is happy. Taken another way... everyone's happiness is his responsibility. That he isn't valuable unless he directly contributes to someone else's happiness.
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Posted: 8 years ago
#72
@mallikakas. Amazing post and bang on!. You have explained Dev's character so perfectly. Guilt can be a very paralyzing emotion. I think he even feels guilty that he wasn't there for his daughter when she needed him and that is also his fault I feel very bad for him.

Hopefully something nice happens to him in the near future 😃.
Edited by Shaavi - 8 years ago
Aishu13 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#73
Wow excellent analysis everyone!
Edited by Aishu13 - 8 years ago
Aishu13 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#74

Originally posted by: malikakas

Aishu, you've hit the nail on the head here. This is one of the reasons I strongly relate to his character. For me this is a character that has never really lived for himself. They say if you don't really love yourself, its hard to love someone else. Most of the issues Sonakshi has with Dev's "love" stems from the fact that he had a hard time loving himself without guilt.


This was something I wanted to discuss with Sam, when we were discussing male privilege and gender expectations with respect to a girl moving into a guy's house. I had started a response earlier but didn't have time to really get into it. So I hope its okay that I continue the discussion here. 😳


For me, the degree of guilt that was placed on Dev's character prevented him from having "male privilege" in the truest sense. Early on he was made to feel guilty about the advantages he enjoyed as a male, like the right to an education over Neha. So much so that he was basically "taught" that he was not "allowed" personal happiness without fulfillment of his family's happiness first (e.g. the honeymoon). Dev was required to take on the responsibility as the head male of the family but without the rights that are usually afforded to the head male of the family because he hadn't chosen it from a place of empowerment. Decisions that appeared seemingly his, always required the approval of Ishwari (like hiring Vicky in the company).


Going back to the previous discussion, in my opinion, Dev wouldn't have considered the idea of alternate living arrangements because his primary concern at that point in his life was clearing his debts-- i.e. taking care of his family and looking after his mother. IMO it was far less out of sense of male privilege or personal convenience. More than male privilege, I'd say it was male responsibility. Dev was made to be educated and successful OVER his sisters for that reason.


Obviously a lot of males in Indian culture are expected to look after their family, but I feel Dev got that message in a different way than people like Vicky or Saurabh or even Ranveer. I feel the latter 3 got the benefits of male privilege a lot more. Vicky and Saurabh could easily threaten their mothers that they would move out with their respective wives because they weren't consistently made to feel that they owed the family anything. If anything GKB instilled in Vicky a sense of entitlement that people should owe him. Ranveer's scenario was a lot closer to Dev's... but Ranveer was still taking on responsibility for his family from a place of male empowerment and maybe a little bit of male ego.

Dev, however, was emotionally manipulated into taking responsibility of his family from a place of guilt. Like the scene where Ishwari ensures Dev watches her humiliation to force him to work hard. Ishwari is a very complex character and I don't believe she is totally negative. But frankly she was a bit emotionally abusive towards Dev because of his status as a male. If anything she's more concerned about Neha not having a happy childhood than about Dev not having one.


So what Dev ended up learning was that he is not entitled to happiness unless his family is happy. Taken another way... everyone's happiness is his responsibility. That he isn't valuable unless he directly contributes to someone else's happiness.


With my Biology Lab report looming, main uncontrollably yaha response be likhunga! Magic of Aishwarya!
Malika Di, brilliant stem of my roots, I feel so proud (happy tears)! All jokes apart, I think the fact that I share this attitude of Dev allowed me to realize how much he endured. I will be honest, I love my family, but I have demanding parents. At times, there is only so much I can do before I "burn out". Actually in AP Gov for a unit, our teacher gave us a personality test, and I got INTJ (Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, and Judging), there type of people are supposedly 2% of the population, and women make up 0.08% of that. The fact is although we don't understand emotions, sad reality is that we are easily affected by them, positively or negatively. I honestly like Dev have put the blame on myself for stuff done by my sister and mother, with the same mentality. I think this manipulation is stemmed by the fact, in a rational and working mind emotions don't come in the way, but the fact that since we are perfectionists if something is not easily understood by us, we are affected by it. Aap sabko pathe hai? Mai aur Mr.Darcy be same personality hain!
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Posted: 8 years ago
#75
Wow everyone excellent analysis 👏

My thought about this raaz is .. what if Ishwari was in love before her marriage just like maamaji...

Dev is her illegitimate child.. Khatri knows this secret as they were neighbors..Dev's father gets to know the truth after many years and has a heart attack... it explains many insecurities of Ishwari, especially the guilt she has always put on Dev to take care of his sisters and that all his wealth should be theirs .. thus the prenup came up

This is just shot in the dark... I was watching the episode and was thinking about what Khatri said

Edited by amaypranay - 8 years ago
Danseuse thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#76

Just thinking aloud here. I recall one of the old episodes where Ishwari tells Mamaji or Dev that they had to struggle after they lost everything, even their own house. Were her husband and Khatri partners and Khatri cheated her husband and then tried to take advantage of Ishwari? Was there a scuffle which followed and...



-Rekha
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Posted: 8 years ago
#77
Malikakas
Wonderful analysis. Even I have a discussion on male ego and male privilege with Sam. I felt that Dev certainly is not an egoist neither does he purposely utilised his male privilege. I also loved Aishu's post on Dev's guilt that lead him say sorry to others though I differed a bit in tracing his reasons for doing so.Your analysis is just great.

I even discussed with Sam on Dev being a feminist . I loved her interpretation also.

The writers presented a never before hero before us with so many shades that really is worthy to study and analyse. Dev's uniqueness lies in his contradictions. He is rude yet soft hearted,impulsive yet calculative ,vulnerable yet strong,selfish yet selfless ... I can go on and on and admire the person that he is whom we may love or hate but we can not ignore at all.

If only Sonakshi spent time more on exploring her husband with all his positives and negatives,she would have understood how fulfilling it is to share her life with him. Rather she preferred to waste her time on Iswari and GKB leaving this gem of a person waiting in the wings to get her attention.

Again Sonakshi is doing the same mistake by not sharing Khatri issue with Dev. I can't understand why she is scared of Dev's reaction.She is very much used to his way of expression,action and reaction by now. Why should she involve Jatin in this highly personal matter? Jatin may be her guide and philosopher but this issue doesn't concern him any way. By doing so she herself is giving way to misunderstandings.

While having coffee she should have just directly questioned him" Who is that strange old man stalking you and your family? " That would have solved the matter. Sometimes I can not understand Sonakshi at all. May be I need help from the wonderful analysts here.
Edited by ltelidevara - 8 years ago
allizzwell thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#78

Originally posted by: Danseuse


April 17, 2017 - Monday

The only question that remained with me after the episode was whether Ishwari accidentally hurt/kill/murder someone? An act of defense!! Was Khatri a witness to this crime and he gave in because Ishwari agreed to do whatever he wanted. Then she escaped/disappeared!! Did Khatri take the murder rap on himself? Why should he come looking for Ishwari after all these years? Is Nikki their daughter? How does Dev know Khatri? So many questions!!!



-Rekha

Hi Rekha😊
The various hints dropped for this suspense r firstly Ishu carried knife at the dark hour of the night which has been repeatedly stressed, even in yest epi. Secondly Ishu's saree was torn in one of the FB when Dev spotted the same or something like that.

I assume something like Ishu faced a molestation by a person where she worked and to save herself she hit him hard and tried to run. Khatri reaches the spot, kills him which is not known to Ishu and blackmails Ishu from then on... that the person was killed by Ishu. Possibly as u said, he took the murder on himself and got jailed pretending to save Ishu so that he can blackmail her throughout her life time.

But I cant understand is ...in those days Ishu was struggling to make her both the ends meet. Y would Khatri think of a long term plan and take the murder on himself. 😕... Y was Dev and Neha visibly irked and angry with Khatri?😕 ...Dev being a devoted son would just scare away Khatri merely by words and spare him if he knew something in depth ...no...but in one scene Dev just did that. he warned Khatri as if he was a troublesome neighbour...😕
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Posted: 8 years ago
#79
@malika: While all your points are totally valid and I agree to a large extent, I still think you are missing the crux of male privilege ever so sightly. As I have mentioned before, male privilege is the advantage that society accords men simply for the fact of being men. This can range from active privileges, like people taking you more seriously in a professional sphere, to the absence of certain unpleasant experiences like street harassment. Yes, like you said, there is a flipside because of fixed gender roles, but overall, the problems that men are allowed to ignore are much higher in number than the ones that women are allowed to ignore because that is how patriarchy is structured.

In my earlier post, I focused one such privilege that Dev enjoyed, i.e., not having to think about leaving his family after marriage. When you look at both of them objectively, Dev and Sona were equally instrumental in both of their families as the primary income earners, but neither of them ever questioned that it would be Sona who left her family and entered Dixit household upon marriage. Just think about the fact that Dev wanted Sona be cool with him calling her mother "aunty" but when she questioned if she could do the same for his mother, he was horrified. Why didn't he assume at the outset that it could go both ways? Why did Sona have to raise the question literally for him to understand exactly what he was asking of her and Asha? Male privilege.

The great thing about Dev is that he is open to learning, or rather unlearning his privilege. This is where the lack of ego gives him an immense advantage. But it is a double edged sword because his lack of ego is also what makes him come off as "spineless." Dev doesn't have much of an abstract moral code. For him, if it hurts a member of his family then it is wrong; if it helps, then it is right. The ends totally justify the means, and he is more than happy to make himself the bad guy to help other people's relationships, whether it was hiding the infertility truth to get Sona-Ishwari to bond, or now hiding that he didn't steal the jewelry to ensure smooth relations between the Mandals and the Boses.

His mistake in all of this is not giving his own actions enough importance, as someone who is deeply embroiled in these situations, and whose actions have consequences outside of his intentions and beyond his control. This is where a little ego could come in handy. 😉

Disclaimer: Privilege is a sensitive and difficult topic. I have read a lot, but this is the first time I am trying to reproduce any of it, so if my ideas fall woefully short of coherence, let me know and we can discuss and think through it. 😊
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Posted: 8 years ago
#80

Originally posted by: amaypranay

Wow everyone excellent analysis 👏

My thought about this raaz is .. what if Ishwari was in love before her marriage just like maamaji...

Dev is her illegitimate child.. Khatri knows this secret as they were neighbors..Dev's father gets to know the truth after many years and has a heart attack... it explains many insecurities of Ishwari, especially the guilt she has always put on Dev to take care of his sisters and that all his wealth should be theirs .. thus the prenup came up

This is just shot in the dark... I was watching the episode and was thinking about what Khatri said


I understand your guess is in connection with Ishu's insecurities in relation to Dev and it does seem valid seeing the attention Dev gets from Ishu.

But if it is so, GKB would also know the same, then, y would GKB spare this golden opportunity to shoo away Dev? One mention of this and he himself would move away from Dixit Nivaas. It wont b difficult for her red to hadpofy the props once Dev moves out. So I don't think it could b this.

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