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Samanalyse

@Samanalyse

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#51

Originally posted by: LiveLife321

Thank you for the reference Sam. I must say you surely have a different & unique perspective towards this show. I completely respect your pov but at the same time i differ with you on some points. 😊
For ex, As you said Dev went wrong in so many cases while assessing others but he was also dead perfect while assessing people when all other went wrong with their assessments. Even Sona was not right always in this area, in fact no one can assess other person perfectly all the time. My point here is not about whether Dev or Sona were right or wrong while assessing others, what i am trying to say is he had that capability in him which got disappeared from his personality at present magically. I think lets agree to disagree here.😊

I am not arguing that Dev was always wrong and Sona always right, but more that Dev was never really sensitive to other people. If he was right about people, it was becasue they fit into his cynical worldview, not because he was a good judge of character. He used the same tactics on everyone: either he bribed them with much more money than they were currently earning, or he threatened their livelihood with his money and influence. You could say that he should use the same tactics on Ayaan, but here his mother and sister's feelings hang in the balance and the stakes are too high to be so cavalier. With Kushal Roy, he was only concnerned about ensuring that Sona worked for him until his mother got better. Had Kushal been a better person, he would have shocked Dev as much as Ritwick did, because Dev just doesn't believe people can have that strength of character.

As you mentioned above, Lets think that pre-confession was the easiest phase and we all appreciated & respected cv's efforts time & again at that time. I too agree post- marriage is the tough one to handle & as you said MR is pro in that area. 😆 BUT
Isn't it(Post-marriage) the actual theme of this show?
If the build-up(pre-marriage) is a cake walk for creatives then post-marriage track should be even more outstanding comparing to the pre-marriage track since this is what is their actual story. Then why majority is having issues with the logic & execution area?
Their initial promos gave crystal clear message on what we can expect from this show then when they actually entered in to their main plot why many are loosing connect with the show & story?
Honestly speaking, it should be more gripping & connecting at this point right?
Um, I can't really comment on this, as I don't really see any problems with the logic or execution. Yes, the show has adopted a different structure, and a slightly different tone after marriage, but I am actually enjoying that. As I have said in several replies on this post, maybe the problem is with us, and our expectations from the promos. Those promos were a total of maybe 5 minutes, and it was our imaginiations which took over from there, creating entire worlds of assumption about what the show was "supposed" to be. But what if this is what they were always going for? Looking back, I see nothing inconsistent with the promos in their essence -- we have a confusing, passive-aggressive Ishwari, a conflicted Dev, and a calm but firm Sona. They have just elaborated on these sketches to reveal things we maybe didn't anticipate. I also find it very gripping and feel very connected, so again, can't really comment on those questions. But I hope it comes around for you too soon!

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Samanalyse

@Samanalyse

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#52

Originally posted by: thedramaqueen

I understand that you are referring to the misery of people who relate to Neha and GKB. I however still believe Neha, GKB, Vicky or Boses are all background. The story is still about Dev, Sona and how Ishwari changes as a mother in law while Dev & sona battle the challenges of life with their love

I completely agree it is about that, but I my point was that it's important to note the "background" challenges for a woman who tries to change the system, as well as for the woman who is trying to resist that change. People who are unhappy themselves with no idea how to break out of it, will find it much easier to back Ishwari. If not happy, at least they are safe. I think this is very much the place Neha is at right now. She feels like she went out on a limb to pursue happiness with Ranveer, and what did she get for it but a loss of both happiness and security? So now, as evidenced by her argument with Nikki, she is defending at least that security even if it doesn't give her happiness, and that security lies in Ishwari's hands.

Sona, on the other hand, refuses to settle for anything short of happiness and she has her own sources of security, both financial and emotional, so she is not as dependent on Dev or his family. That comes with a lot of resistence from those who are less well-equipped to take on the world. What I wanted to say was that it's an important lesson for young girls that our society still isn't what it should be, and that you won't always be lauded for doing the right thing, but you have to do it anyway, persistently, in order for there to be change eventually. That is what I see Sona growing into as the show goes on. She is learning to be more resistant to the attacks (she doesn't immediately try to change herself for approval anymore), and more and more proactive in exercising her will (taking Dev for the shower against Ishwari's wishes) and that slow erosion is what is going to bring about a gradual change.

And even though the main story still revolves around the central three, the others play a huge role in representing the societal context they inhabit.

Its funny you say that you sound relentlessly optimistic coz I for one am the same. I only started watching the show around Neha's wedding/family photo phase and actually got hooked more after breakup. I loved the pain of the separation phase and Shaheer, Erica and Supriya aced it. I watched the old episodes online much later to understand the depth of pain of the actors. So I am even more optimistic of the post marriage track because the actual story only started after their wedding

That's really good to know! 😃 I am also really optimistic about the coming story, and the way it is unfolding.

Edited by Samanalyse - 8 years ago

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Samanalyse

@Samanalyse

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#53

Originally posted by: gemini54
Sam thanks for responding but I think you missed my point where I said that you first react than may delve deeper to what was shown
For example I watched the movie no country for old men yesterday did not like it , did not understand the purpose but after thinking about it and discussing about it understood the concept. That is what I was trying to point out.
Probably each one of us view or reacrt to what was shown differently based on our expectations

Oh, I see what you mean now. And I completely agree that the difference in our views comes largely from expectations. I wonder, did the CVs make a huge error by making such beautiful and provocative promos? So many saw their version of the entire show in those promos, and are so disappointed that the real thing is not matching their vision! 😆 I also loved the promos but I never took them so literally, and I feel like they have done so much more with the concept since then that I have no complaints. I hope the show turns around for the majority as well!

Edited by Samanalyse - 8 years ago

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dsr11

@dsr11

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 8 years ago

#54

My replies in bold

Originally posted by: dsr11

Edited by dsr11 - 8 years ago

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JShukla

@JShukla

Inactive

Posted: 8 years ago

#55

Originally posted by: dsr11
My replies in bold

@dsr11...excellent 👏

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Silambu

@Silambu

Dazzler

+ 4

Posted: 8 years ago

#56

And what a beautiful well written post and how did I miss it? 😃

You said it all...!

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Samanalyse

@Samanalyse

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#57

@dsr11: Thanks for the detailed reply! I can see that we perceive the world in very different ways. You see right and wrong as absolute concepts, and I see them as relative to the situation and the person making that judgment. What one person takes for granted as right and wrong may not apply to someone else with different ideas. That's why we have to come up with laws, which are a majority consensus about what defines right and wrong, so we can create some order. But like human beings themselves, these laws are subject to change. When we listen to other people, with different perspectives, we may come to realise why our notion of right and wrong can come into question.

As for the epics, there is no need to "correct" me. I was not implying that Rama and the Pandavas are equivalent, only that they are considered the protagonists and the "good guys" in their respective epics, but that does not preclude them from committing acts involving deception and betrayal. Characters who are supposed to be "bad" also have excellent qualities. This is what creates the complexity in their characters that makes those texts relevant even so many years later. But again, if you are sticking only to what the text says, and are blind to the interpretive tradition, which is very critical of these characters at times, then I can't really argue with that.

What really baffles me, though, is how someone who accepts the idea of Rama and Sita as the "ideal couple" could have any problem with regressive soaps. After all, our TV bahus are modelled after Sita's ceaseless patience and selflessness in the face of constant suffering and unwarranted accusations. For that matter, what has Dev done that Rama did not? Didn't Rama too agree to vanvaas after one word from his mother, Kaikeyi, in order to fill his father's promise? Did he sit down and discuss with Sita before he made that decision? How many times did he let her down, refusing to trust her over society's accusations?

As for your definition of "sexy" I totally agree. However, I see Dev exhibiting all of those qualities. His only supposed mistake is that sometimes he displays them in favour of his mother and that can have negative impacts on his relationship with Sona. No human being lives in a vacuum, and though he might possess all of the best qualities and the best intentions, he may not be able to prevent the negative effects of excercising them in a specific way. So what might look brave, and decisive from one angle (his decision to break up, for example) looks impulsive and cowardly from another. The great thing about Sona is that she is accepting of him, even though he hurts and disappoints her, because she knows he is trying and she loves him. And when he really falls short, she is learning to let him know in a way that gets through. To me, it is much more exciting to watch Dev faltering and learning than seeing him have all these qualities mastered in ALL his relationships from the get-go.

Of course, that is just my preference, and I can respect that you don't see it the same way.

@varshu_018: But there was so much to say! Maybe you can read in installments. 😆

@Silambu: Thanks, I really appreciate it! 😃

Edited by Samanalyse - 8 years ago

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thedramaqueen

@thedramaqueen

Voyager

Posted: 8 years ago

#58

Sam, to the seeker of a matured love story, this aspect of this show is what attracts me the most. Dev and Sonakshi both have their flaws. The difference (in my opinion) is that Dev will overlook every flaw so long as Sonakshi doesn't cause any stir in the Dixit ecosystem and is there for him. Her presence is all he needs. I think the 'problem' some of us(or atleast I) 'modern' women have is that 'just being' and 'becoming a doormat' has a very thin line especially when you watch something only for 20 minutes daily and have 23 hours to analyse it. Dev has never made difficult decisions and the only time he took the difficult path was when he broke the engagement with Natasha and that too at the very last minute(So in essence even there he had to be thrown in the deep end). And Sonakshi takes difficult decisions to the point of sometimes taking the bull by the horn. She loves Dev and therefore wants to make his ecosystem less hostile towards him. He loves Sonakshi and therefore doesnt want her to change anything in his ecosystem because he knows there is so much wrong in there that she will end up burnt and bruised in that process and he picks his battles and would rather live in a hostile environment where his lady love has to bear least amount of abuse than let his lady love fix the environment

Did I make sense at all?

Originally posted by: Samanalyse
The great thing about Sona is that she is accepting of him, even though he hurts and disappoints her, because she knows he is trying and she loves him. And when he really falls short, she is learning to let him know in a way that gets through. To me, it is much more exciting to watch Dev faltering and learning than seeing him have all these qualities mastered in ALL his relationships from the get-go.

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Samanalyse

@Samanalyse

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#59

Originally posted by: thedramaqueen
Sam, to the seeker of a matured love story, this aspect of this show is what attracts me the most. Dev and Sonakshi both have their flaws. The difference (in my opinion) is that Dev will overlook every flaw so long as Sonakshi doesn't cause any stir in the Dixit ecosystem and is there for him. Her presence is all he needs. I think the 'problem' some of us(or atleast I) 'modern' women have is that 'just being' and 'becoming a doormat' has a very thin line especially when you watch something only for 20 minutes daily and have 23 hours to analyse it. Dev has never made difficult decisions and the only time he took the difficult path was when he broke the engagement with Natasha and that too at the very last minute(So in essence even there he had to be thrown in the deep end). And Sonakshi takes difficult decisions to the point of sometimes taking the bull by the horn. She loves Dev and therefore wants to make his ecosystem less hostile towards him. He loves Sonakshi and therefore doesnt want her to change anything in his ecosystem because he knows there is so much wrong in there that she will end up burnt and bruised in that process and he picks his battles and would rather live in a hostile environment where his lady love has to bear least amount of abuse than let his lady love fix the environment

Did I make sense at all?

Absolutely! You make perfect sense. In Dev's ideal world, Sona would simply exist in the ecosystem, as the same person she was before marriage: bright, independent, and sympathetic to all of his grievances. He doesn't really see the need for her to forge relationships with his family members because in his eyes, they formed automatically when she married him. That's precisely where the hook of the show lies for me: Dev learning to appreciate that relationships (not just with Sona but his entire family) involve more than immediate presence and problem-to-solution logic. They require honest communcation (even if the immediate effects are not pleasing), careful consideration before action, and yes, empathy. In his struggle with these concepts I see the show saying not what marriage should be, but what marriage still is for so many couples.

No matter how accomplished and independent the wife is, she is at a disadvantage as a stranger to her new home, when they live in a joint family. The groom only gains a new relationship that is supposed to fit seamlessly into his status quo; it is the bride who loses her status quo, and the daily security of her natal home. Men are simply not taught to understand the work that goes into relationships, so they labour under the delusion that these things just happen on their own, while we teach women to undermine their own struggle by inculcating the expectation of this hardship from a young age. Even the most progressive voices in the show's universe, Bijoy and Asha, declaimed that it was known from birth that a girl would have to leave her maika and go to sasural, which, as a modern woman, caused me more pause for concern in me than anything Sona and Dev have done so far. Is that as far as progressiveness goes in the creators' minds?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that Dev has never made difficult decisions because Dev is a man who lives in a society that makes it very easy for him not to. And that, to me, is the reality the show is holding up to the light, which is what I so appreciate. It's showing how a man can be totally appreciative of a woman's independence, and respectful of her struggle and STILL fail to understand how the system disadvantages her. This message has been clear from the very beginning: the women on the show are so much more attune to complexity than the men. Bijoy holds his children up to an arbitrary standard, without much consideration for their individual gifts and weaknesse; Asha is the one who is in tune with their emotional needs, especially in Saurabh's case. Ranveer painted Neha as a mercenary for being averse to poverty, while his mother and sister totally understood her needs. Mamaji has never shown more than a cursory involvement, usually stemming from shame, in his wife and child while Ishwari treats them both with love in the hopes that their bitterness will be soothed.

There is a certain candidness here about the fact that society still doesn't socialise men and women equally. But we have a ray of hope in Sona who is dragging a patriarchal, joint-family, kicking and screaming, a little closer to the ideal, equal marriage. She is starting to protest the assumption that she should merely exist (instead of trying to be the best exister there ever was, as she did in the first few weeks), and exercising her will. Every time she does this, all the forces that are scared or losing their security, or scared of losing the power they have in the current system will rise up against her, and Dev won't quite understand the depth of what is happening, because he has been deliberately blocked from that reality all his life.

But the catch is that he doesn't just need Sona's presence, he needs her happy, strong, and self-sufficient presence because it allows him to take a breather from being the all-powerful, infallible male (the perks of feminism for men!). In order for her to be the Sona that he needs, Dev is being forced to evolve gradually. As Shaavi mentioned in her (his? not sure!) post, when he thought about how Sona must feel when he called her mother aunty, he thought about someone else's perspective for the first time in the trajectory of the show. That was a huge step for him, and the first of many which I hope to see, however gradually and with as much resistance as the rest of the family can throw at them. It makes me think about, and accept the fight ahead for equal rights in its many manifestations.

Sorry this got so long again. 😛 I hope I wasn't too repetitive!

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Shaavi

@Shaavi

Voyager

Posted: 8 years ago

#60

Originally posted by: thedramaqueen

@BOLD Blue... Ishwari assumed that Dev would deal with it because Dev was never shown to have any dreams, wishes or happiness of his own. He has always portrayed that as long as she is happy, he is happy. All his emotions that Ishwari has seen are a reflection of her own. Meaning she has been projecting her thoughts, her dreams as Dev's through out his life and Dev has accepted her feelings as his. This is clearly visible in Ishwari -- Sona conversation regarding Dev's calling Asha as aunty... At that time whatever Ishwari said were her own feelings but she did not own them to Sonakshi. She said them to be Dev's feelings...😊

Also whether it is HM cancellation or b'day celebration cancellation, Ishwari only thought about Sonakshi's feelings and not Dev's. She did not even bother to think that he might feel bad, that he might also be looking forward to those moments with his wife. This once again is because of Dev's behaviour. Only when Dev starts to talk about his own dreams, wishes and thoughts not just in front of Sonakshi, but also in front of the rest of his family, will he be able to keep Sonakshi happy. That is when Ishwari will also realize where she went wrong and start her journey as a good MIL...

Just my POV... Hope it made sense. 😃

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