Misery Loves Company - Page 7

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Shaavi thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#61


Absolutely! You make perfect sense. In Dev's ideal world, Sona would simply exist in the ecosystem, as the same person she was before marriage: bright, independent, and sympathetic to all of his grievances. He doesn't really see the need for her to forge relationships with his family members because in his eyes, they formed automatically when she married him. That's precisely where the hook of the show lies for me: Dev learning to appreciate that relationships (not just with Sona but his entire family) involve more than immediate presence and problem-to-solution logic. They require honest communcation (even if the immediate effects are not pleasing), careful consideration before action, and yes, empathy. In his struggle with these concepts I see the show saying not what marriage should be, but what marriage still is for so many couples.

No matter how accomplished and independent the wife is, she is at a disadvantage as a stranger to her new home, when they live in a joint family. The groom only gains a new relationship that is supposed to fit seamlessly into his status quo; it is the bride who loses her status quo, and the daily security of her natal home. Men are simply not taught to understand the work that goes into relationships, so they labour under the delusion that these things just happen on their own, while we teach women to undermine their own struggle by inculcating the expectation of this hardship from a young age. Even the most progressive voices in the show's universe, Bijoy and Asha, declaimed that it was known from birth that a girl would have to leave her maika and go to sasural, which, as a modern woman, caused me more pause for concern in me than anything Sona and Dev have done so far. Is that as far as progressiveness goes in the creators' minds?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that Dev has never made difficult decisions because Dev is a man who lives in a society that makes it very easy for him not to. And that, to me, is the reality the show is holding up to the light, which is what I so appreciate. It's showing how a man can be totally appreciative of a woman's independence, and respectful of her struggle and STILL fail to understand how the system disadvantages her. This message has been clear from the very beginning: the women on the show are so much more attune to complexity than the men. Bijoy holds his children up to an arbitrary standard, without much consideration for their individual gifts and weaknesse; Asha is the one who is in tune with their emotional needs, especially in Saurabh's case. Ranveer painted Neha as a mercenary for being averse to poverty, while his mother and sister totally understood her needs. Mamaji has never shown more than a cursory involvement, usually stemming from shame, in his wife and child while Ishwari treats them both with love in the hopes that their bitterness will be soothed.

There is a certain candidness here about the fact that society still doesn't socialise men and women equally. But we have a ray of hope in Sona who is dragging a patriarchal, joint-family, kicking and screaming, a little closer to the ideal, equal marriage. She is starting to protest the assumption that she should merely exist (instead of trying to be the best exister there ever was, as she did in the first few weeks), and exercising her will. Every time she does this, all the forces that are scared or losing their security, or scared of losing the power they have in the current system will rise up against her, and Dev won't quite understand the depth of what is happening, because he has been deliberately blocked from that reality all his life.

But the catch is that he doesn't just need Sona's presence, he needs her happy, strong, and self-sufficient presence because it allows him to take a breather from being the all-powerful, infallible male (the perks of feminism for men!). In order for her to be the Sona that he needs, Dev is being forced to evolve gradually. As Shaavi mentioned in her (his? not sure!) post, when he thought about how Sona must feel when he called her mother aunty, he thought about someone else's perspective for the first time in the trajectory of the show. That was a huge step for him, and the first of many which I hope to see, however gradually and with as much resistance as the rest of the family can throw at them. It makes me think about, and accept the fight ahead for equal rights in its many manifestations.

Sorry this got so long again. 😛 I hope I wasn't too repetitive!

I am a she...😃
thedramaqueen thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#62

Originally posted by: Shaavi


@BOLD Blue... Ishwari assumed that Dev would deal with it because Dev was never shown to have any dreams, wishes or happiness of his own. He has always portrayed that as long as she is happy, he is happy. All his emotions that Ishwari has seen are a reflection of her own. Meaning she has been projecting her thoughts, her dreams as Dev's through out his life and Dev has accepted her feelings as his. This is clearly visible in Ishwari -- Sona conversation regarding Dev's calling Asha as aunty... At that time whatever Ishwari said were her own feelings but she did not own them to Sonakshi. She said them to be Dev's feelings...😊

Also whether it is HM cancellation or b'day celebration cancellation, Ishwari only thought about Sonakshi's feelings and not Dev's. She did not even bother to think that he might feel bad, that he might also be looking forward to those moments with his wife. This once again is because of Dev's behaviour. Only when Dev starts to talk about his own dreams, wishes and thoughts not just in front of Sonakshi, but also in front of the rest of his family, will he be able to keep Sonakshi happy. That is when Ishwari will also realize where she went wrong and start her journey as a good MIL...

Just my POV... Hope it made sense. 😃


On the day of the birthday Ishwari did say she feels like she 'stole' their special moment.. so I 100% agree, the son has to express his own desires too. He did... The night she over dosed on sleeping pills he did.. and that is why Ishwari was so disappointed in herself. She wanted to be happy for him but couldnt.
Samanalyse thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#63

Originally posted by: Shaavi


@BOLD Blue... Ishwari assumed that Dev would deal with it because Dev was never shown to have any dreams, wishes or happiness of his own. He has always portrayed that as long as she is happy, he is happy. All his emotions that Ishwari has seen are a reflection of her own. Meaning she has been projecting her thoughts, her dreams as Dev's through out his life and Dev has accepted her feelings as his. This is clearly visible in Ishwari -- Sona conversation regarding Dev's calling Asha as aunty... At that time whatever Ishwari said were her own feelings but she did not own them to Sonakshi. She said them to be Dev's feelings...😊

Also whether it is HM cancellation or b'day celebration cancellation, Ishwari only thought about Sonakshi's feelings and not Dev's. She did not even bother to think that he might feel bad, that he might also be looking forward to those moments with his wife. This once again is because of Dev's behaviour. Only when Dev starts to talk about his own dreams, wishes and thoughts not just in front of Sonakshi, but also in front of the rest of his family, will he be able to keep Sonakshi happy. That is when Ishwari will also realize where she went wrong and start her journey as a good MIL...

Just my POV... Hope it made sense. 😃


First of all, thanks for clarifying the he/she question! I made that mistake on the forum once before, so even though most members are female, I try not to take it for granted! 😆

Completely agree with your assessment of Dev's character. Back when Dev was struggling to tell Ishwari about his and Sona's relationship, and then during the break-up, I kept saying the oft-repeated "teri khushi mein meri khushi" was the root cause of all of their problems. Dev and Ishwari need -- to take a leaf out of Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin's book -- to "consciously decouple." They need to realise that they don't necessarily find happiness in the same things anymore, and that that is perfectly okay. They are two distinct human beings after all. There is no doubt that they shared a very trying time, and were there for each other in every way, but the relationship they had during that time doesn't have to define their relationship forever, nor does it make their relationship less important or precious if it reduces in intensity and becomes more mundane.

This is especially important for Dev, as he moves past his childhood and into the future. Like you said, he needs to accept (without alcohol) that he wants things that Ishwari doesn't, and that it is not a betrayal. I saw a glimmer of hope in his conversation with Neha today. For the first time, he didn't succumb to guilt and rose above her manipulation. He is finally starting to understand that he shouldn't undermine his hard work just because others have suffered. Neha is the kiddy pool though, and it may be some time yet before Dev is ready for the deep (Ishwari) end, but at least his feet are in the water!
Enlightened21 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#64
When I first followed & read this thread, I was not a member of IF. So, that time, I couldn't express the happiness I got while reading this wonderful post by Sam and the following replies & views by each one of you. As I had pointed out in last week's analysis thread I was so happy to read how Sam had given a reason even for RR's behavior and that was when I started thinking of joining the forum, which eventually happened only 2 months later.
Thank you very much Sam, for this wonderful thread and special appreciation to all those who contributed in this thread.

DQ...a special thanks to you for posting this link in this week's analysis thread.
Tia.0 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#65
That's a very well written post with valid arguments. Well done.
What you wrote certainly explains the whys. I particularly like the line where you said that men are not given the tool nor the training to navigate the family system.

However, one thing can't be denied that men can feel equally deeply and capable of every single thing that women are capable of doing. Barring the different reproductive function, men can be as adapt as women in building and preserving relationships, navigating difficult family situations, showing perseverance and patience.

The problem starts when men (or women) turn a blind eye to the suffering and unhappiness of the people they claim to love.

It's not that Ishwari could not see Dev's pain and suffering. She blamed Sona for that for 7 years. But she'd rather watch her son suffer than watch him happy with Sona.

It's not that Dev didn't know what was happening to Sonakshi in his house. After all he lied about the pregnancy to solve that problem. But again, he'd rather pretend there was nothing wrong than stand up for his love.

But it's not that either of them can't stand up for what they truly feel is worthy. Ishwari stood up against Radha many times for Dev and also Sona when she thought that Sona was pregnant and Dev did stand up against Ishwari for Neha and I bet you that he will without shame or any thought will stand up for Soha.

How a woman then loses value as a wife? If a person can stand up for mother, sister, daughter, then why the same person can't stand up for wife?

Because the why you explained in your post. And because women don't value themselves enough.

Why there are only a privileged minority of women who seem to have everything a woman can ask for (I am not talking about money or success. I am talking about love and respect from their life partner), while the majority women don't have even the basic human rights?

The reason lie in the solution which no one ever tries to find.

Recently Iceland announced legally equal pay for equal work for all genders. Keeping in mind, Iceland already is high on gender equality standard more than any country in the world. So how did it happen there but yet to happen in even first world countries like USA, Canada, Germany etc.? Because their women didn't accept the situation. They protested and they protested until the legal authorities had no option but to give them their rights.

There is power in unity. But women never seem to have them. If three women support one woman, then 10 woman stands up against that woman.

Yes, it is status quo. But this situation will remain status quo until women demand change and they don't settle. When women starts to take their rights instead of begging for them or keep silent, this will remain status quo for the foreseeable future.

And as you rightly mentioned, when women are miserable, since they are primary caregivers, they not only foster misogynistic behaviour in their children's mind. But also drag other women down for company.

And if this show starts a conversation (without glorifying misogyny) against preconceived notions and in support of equality and a woman's worth as a human being beyond a walking talking reproductive system, then that's a positive change I am very happy to see.
Edited by Tia.0 - 8 years ago
..BhUvaNa thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#66
Wow just came across this thread , thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Beautiful analysis Samanalyse👏, need to catch up the replies ...
amaypranay thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#67
Wow Sam.. this is fantastic :) you have such an amazing art of penning your thoughts 👏 in awe of your writing!!!

KRPKAB is a story that touches a chord with everyone! For me its a beautiful love story..with many shades of love ..everyone else is a back drop ..that's what I feel,this is what has drawn me to this show and I have to say the makers have touched very sensitive bold topics embarking this beautiful journey along the way ..kudos to the entire team to keep us motivated this far!!!

❤️ let the show go on 👏
Samanalyse thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#68
Wow, thank you all for your replies and for giving this post new life! I put my heart and soul into this piece and I am so happy to continue expanding the discussion all these months later. Special thanks to DQ for linking this post into the ongoing analysis thread!

@grace: Thank you so much for taking the time to read this post and respond! I know it can be frustrating with characters like Ishwari and RR, but I try to apply this lens to all fictional characters, and when I can to real people as well (even harder!). You don't necessarily dig deeper to excuse their mistake, but to make it ineffectual to you, or if possible to communicate your view, having understood theirs " so you are not just talking at them. When you realise where the bitterness is coming from, if you are lucky, you feel only sympathy for them and their power over you lessens.

@coolmeet, rahulvats: Thanks!

@Tia: Thanks for that amazing response! I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but where our viewpoints diverge is in the solution part. Women (and some men) have worked very hard to find solutions through out history. Unfortunately, it is the implementation which takes generations upon generations. The reason they were able to carry out this important step of equal pay in Iceland is precisely because they already had the one of the highest levels of gender equality.

Change can never be radical, and when it is, it isn't sustainable. As you pointed out, in America for example, it is only now that a few individuals are coming to recognise this problem and bring it up in the public sphere. Also, there are so many other factors at play that prevent women from conducting the kind of strike they did in Iceland " there is dire enough poverty in the USA that women can't afford to miss even one day of work for this greater cause. And that is what it comes down to " you have to get out of survival mode to be able to fight for a higher cause.

That is why we see an Ishwari, who despite being a non-conformist out of majboori, finds it very hard to think of women's solidarity or a greater movement for equality. Her focus is very narrow: her family's survival and its continued well being. She is unable to own her achievements because the system tells her that they can only manifest through a man " that is what she jealously guards in the form of Dev: her life's work. And Ishwari isn't going to change much in her life, but as a result of her non-conformity, we see a change in her daughter's lives. Because she faced the brunt of a system that Ishwari catered to, which favoured the male child, Neha questioned her mother and made sure her sisters/foster daughters had opportunities she didn't. She used the leverage she had to ask the right questions and make her share of progress.

That is, I feel, something every individual can do. People care about problems when they get personal, so make larger feminist questions personal for those loved ones who may be in the dark, innocently or otherwise, and use the love they have for you to help them listen. That is why I loved that conversation between Dev and Sona about their living situation. Sona used the personal leverage she had as the mother of their daughter to ask larger questions and make Dev question his embedded beliefs. In the end, he did see how they restricted him from pursuing the relationship he wanted with his daughter and came around. That's solid progress.

This is what I see the show doing. Not giving us the answers, but raising the right questions through the interactions of a wide variety of characters with vastly different backgrounds and experiences. I never saw it glorifying misogyny, only presenting it as a question that needs to be answered.

@Bhuvana: Thanks! Hope you enjoy the rest of the thread. There are some discussions that I am very proud of in these pages.

@amaypranay: Thank you so much! As I have said on the analysis thread, I see this as a story of what happens when a pure and transcendental love is forced to contend with hostile, social reality. What I am learning is that you have to protect a love like this if you find it; you can't expect it to protect you. And I second your kudos to the team! This show has some of the best, most layered writing I have ever come across, and I am thoroughly enjoying every moment!
Edited by Samanalyse - 8 years ago
Enlightened21 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#69

Originally posted by: Samanalyse



@grace: Thank you so much for taking the time to read this post and respond! I know it can be frustrating with characters like Ishwari and RR, but I try to apply this lens to all fictional characters, and when I can to real people as well (even harder!). You don't necessarily dig deeper to excuse their mistake, but to make it ineffectual to you, or if possible to communicate your view, having understood theirs " so you are not just talking at them. When you realise where the bitterness is coming from, if you are lucky, you feel only sympathy for them and their power over you lessens.


100% true. This is a life-saving lesson I learnt from my experience. And once again many thanks for this thread and for replying back.

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