Feminism A Reality Or A Myth? - Page 5

Created

Last reply

Replies

56

Views

5.5k

Users

27

Likes

294

Frequent Posters

Pehchaan.Kaun thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail Fascinator 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#41
Ok first of all, I didn't expect this post from you honestly. 😔 As it clearly targets the feminists of the forum which includes me as well, I do take offence here.

Some pointers :

1. Ishwari might be a GREAT fighter, but clearly not a winner in the race. When poverty or bad times hit people, people make choices based on their characteristics. If you ask me, snatching books from one child to give to the other one - is one of the MOST cruel things to do. I have applauded her in the past for the struggle and bringing them up with her dignity intact in such crazy world, but what she did to all her kids is horrible. To send Dev to a better school, she deprived Neha ? What was such urgent need to make Dev such filthy rich and make all others in the family a parasite on Dev ? When poverty hits a family, a balanced approach is to fight it together, to earn together and support together. If Dev had not gone to the bigger school and if both Dev and Neha had continued study and both had joined a mediocre job profile with decent earnings, wouldn't that be sufficient for Ishwari ? What was such urgency to make Dev filthy rich and in order to do that, misbalancing the whole family ? To fight her own battle, she produced 2 defective products and spoilt her own psychological balance (yes, living in denial/wanting to live in the past IS indeed a disorder and needs counselling/medical attention).


2. Coming to Neha - I am not the one who wants Neha out of Dixit House neither do I blame her for shouting at Sona. But you said 2 lines in 2 consecutive paragraphs - "Every daughter though married still belongs to her parents." and "Today I found it irritating when Sona revealed the issue of Neha to her parents that too in the public place . Isn't it Neha's personal matter?" - If daughters after marriage still belong to the parents, then why can't Sona share everything with her parents ? Neha is much able to handle her own problems. What is the issue here with feminism when the very person whom you are defending here i.e. Ishwari is using her married daughter's distraught life for her own convenience. If I were that much fan of Neha, I would be deeply offended by someone using the pain of my favorite character for their own selfish reasons and actually has NO concern about her. 😳


3. You are not believer of Feminism since you say many people these days are misusing that. But surprisingly your post speaks in the favour of 2 such people who does use Feminism as a weapon. In one hand we have Ishwari who always expects her daughters not to stand on their own and depend on Dev for all luxury and necessity (As a male member of the family, acc. to Ishwari he remains the provider) which makes them take advantage of being women. On the other hand we have Neha who comes back to her old house when she doesn't like to stay with her husband and is missing the luxuries, an option which only woman can afford to have. As a firm believer of feminism, I strongly oppose the way Dev is overburdened with his family's responsibilities, Ishwari is extremely selfish to expect only her son to take all the troubles whereas she expects her daughters to get all luxuries in the world without doing any struggle. As strong believer of feminism, I also strongly oppose Neha's non-understanding attitude towards Ranveer. Yes, I want Sona to follow Neha's route and run from the Dixit-madhouse asap, but Ranveer's family is NOTHING like that, they INDEED are in monetary trouble. This is not man-made created problems, this is actual situation which as a family should battle together. I don't have problem with Neha's staying in the Dixit House, but I do have a problem with her leaving Ranveer to fight with the real-life problems on his own and coming staying here in luxury. I do feel bad for Ranveer. Anyways, Neha's problem lies in her troubled past for which again Ishwari's bias is involved. Sonakshi Bose has nothing to do with any of these. And yes, Sona is the only character in the show who truly comes across as a strong, independent (and lately emotional fool to marry a guy and family like Dev) woman who has full charge on her own life and has the guts to make and correct the mistakes she makes without anyone's help. If you don't like feminism, obviously you wont like Sonakshi Bose. 😉
CoffeeCake thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 8 years ago
#42
This is a contracting post and taking jibe at members as well.
We have eyes, we are watching the same show, and we know how to treat Ishwari, sona, neha.It's our decision that Ishwari deserves criticism because her actions are pathetic. Its has nothing to do with feminism or feminist. Replace ishwari with any male character and he would receive equal criticism.

You are comparing orange and apple. Comparing unintentionally sona said something to her parents with non stop planning and plotting of Ishwari.

Terrible past doesnt give anyone right to be rude and obnoxious. Stop living in past and move on might help. Those days are gone and forget them is the best solution. But Neha and Ishwari are not ready to move on. People die in poverty, they dont get chance to live in a proper house, let alone palace like ishwari. There's something called destiny. No one is responsible for their struggle, man of their house died early, and they had no money at that time. That struggle was their destiny. Stop living in past, and when you have better present, make your future more better.

No where in this world we can compare whatever sona told to her parents with wicked mind of ishwari. She never wanted her son and DIL to consummate heir marriage, dont want to leave them alone, non stop keep fainting to stop them from going anywhere, predicted divorce of son before marriage. Does she even care about marital lives of her kids? Her daughter's marriage is already in trouble, ishwari should try to fix daughter's arriage, but she's busy spoiling her son's arriage as well. Today she wants Dev and sona to not go on honeymoon because nothing is right between neha-ranveer. Next she would ask them to divorce because neha is doing so, taking help from bachpan ki nonsense tales. Bachpan me potty diaper me karte the, if she loves bachpan so much, make dev wear diaper even today.

No way neha should get free pass just because she has always been like this. For heaven sake they are her brother and sister in law. They are elder than her. She cant throw their luggage and ask them to leave. Tomorrow she might ask sonakshi to leave forever giving excuse she has always been like this. Sad part is there's o basic manners in her, nor anyone bothered to teach her. I dont blame her for that, her mom is sexiest, she was busy making life of son and then pampering him forever, never paid any attention towards daughters.
Edited by Divine-Pearl - 8 years ago
Devakshilover thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 8 years ago
#43

Originally posted by: Divine-Pearl

This is a contracting post and taking jibe at members as well.

We have eyes, we are watching the same show, and we know how to treat Ishwari, sona, neha.It's our decision that Ishwari deserves criticism because her actions are pathetic. Its has nothing to do with feminism or feminist. Replace ishwari with any male character and he would receive equal criticism.

You are comparing orange and apple. Comparing unintentionally sona said something to her parents with non stop planning and plotting of Ishwari.

Terrible past doesnt give anyone right to be rude and obnoxious. Stop living in past and move on might help. Those days are gone and forget them is the best solution. But Neha and Ishwari are not ready to move on. People die in poverty, they dont get chance to live in a proper house, let alone palace like ishwari. There's something called destiny. No one is responsible for their struggle, man of their house died early, and they had no money at that time. That struggle was their destiny. Stop living in past, and when you have better present, make your future more better.

No where in this world we can compare whatever sona told to her parents with wicked mind of ishwari. She never wanted her son and DIL to consummate heir marriage, dont want to leave them alone, non stop keep fainting to stop them from going anywhere, predicted divorce of son before marriage. Does she even care about marital lives of her kids? Her daughter's marriage is already in trouble, ishwari should try to fix daughter's arriage, but she's busy spoiling her son's arriage as well. Today she wants Dev and sona to not go on honeymoon because nothing is right between neha-ranveer. Next she would ask them to divorce because neha is doing so, taking help from bachpan ki nonsense tales. Bachpan me potty diaper me karte the, if she loves bachpan so much, make dev wear diaper even today.

No way neha should get free pass just because she has always been like this. For heaven sake they are her brother and sister in law. They are elder than her. She cant throw their luggage and ask them to leave. Tomorrow she might ask sonakshi to leave forever giving excuse she has always been like this. Sad part is there's o basic manners in her, nor anyone bothered to teach her. I dont blame her for that, her mom is sexiest, she was busy making life of son and then pampering him forever, never paid any attention towards daughters.


absolutely right
yesterday also she said pichle janam me maine bahut punya kiye honge jo mujhe aap jaisa bhai aur dev jaisa 'BETA' mila
nowhere she mentioned her 3 daughters
OmNaMaSteOm thumbnail
20th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 8 years ago
#44
Divine-Pearl, Pehchaan.Kaun, tia.o
👏👏

Awesome replies folks!! The patience to type all that, not get too personal and still make a valid point keeping the characters in mind. 👍🏼

Edited by OmNaMaSteOm - 8 years ago
ltelidevara thumbnail
Visit Streak 1000 Thumbnail Visit Streak 750 Thumbnail + 8
Posted: 8 years ago
#45
You are right, Feminism is a myth.

Because as you defined using dictionary, Feminism is the belief that everyone, regardless of gender should receive equal opportunity, equal rights and equal freedom of choice.

Yes I have this Dictionary obsession due to the profession I am in which deals with linguistics and literature English and Sanskrit.

The fact that it's a belief and not a well-established reality, that is an unfortunate fact.

Here's some things you conveniently overlooked.

Ishwari is a great mother according to you. She sacrificed a lot for her son taking away opportunity from other children including Neha.

1. Why did she choose Dev as the person to be given an opportunity and not Neha? She didn't pick her children in random. According to her Neha wanted to study, then why she was not picked?

Let me tell you why. In India, if there's one opportunity available, and the choice is between a boy and a girl, the boy is always picked.

Because in India, girls are expected to leave their family behind and stay with her husband's family and put his family first in every concern henceforth.

And man are expected to marry a girl and bring her to her family to take care of his.

So either way, the man's family benefits from the education provided to his, never a woman's family.

If a man doesn't live with his family after marriage, it seems his family can't survive. But a woman's family is expected to survive just fine no matter how dire their situation is.

That is the reality of equality.

I agree in India boy is given preference over girls that too when the parents are uneducated this factor gains importance while determining their choices.
Iswari is uneducated. She could never think in the lines of equal opportunities to both genders etc. To her Dev is the son so he should study with whatever resources she provide with her labour.She worked round the clock . She is unable to look after Ria and Nikki. So she needed Neha at home not Dev .She made her choice with whatever understanding she had in that situation.

2. Now let's talk about the thing that a mother has endless supply of - Love.

Since opportunity was limited, Ishwari chose to give it to Dev.

But love was unlimited. Why not give Neha more than her share to make up for it?

Did she do it? No.

She shelled out all of her daughter's share of love also to Dev.

Can you explain the reason for it?k

A mother is supposed to be unbiased. Was she?

That is the reality of motherhood.

First thing Iswari's life did not allow her to stop and think and measure the love she has to shower on her kids. She loved Dev motivated him to reach where he has reached because he is the elder one who can understand her struggle,her fight with all kinds of threats constantly threatening her physically and mentally.She developed a bond with him emotionally depending on him to continue with her struggle for survival That doesn't mean she loved her daughter's less.May be she never expressed but she will always be there for them whenever they need.

3. Neha comes back to her mother's home. Where is the mother after initial talk? She was busy calling Dev to find out what he is upto with his wife or cooking his favourite meal on Dusshera and celebrating Navratri while her daughter can't be with her husband.

Iswari knows Neha will never open up before her.In the initial episodes Iswari sought Radha Rani's help to talk to Neha and pacify her. Neha always had this grouse on her mother that more preference is given to her brother. Iswari accepted the accusation and made her point before Neha explaining her reasons and the circumstances.
Iswari wholeheartedly welcomed Neha tried to ask the reason but Neha being Neha did not reveal anything. But the warmth with which she hugged her mother said a lot.
Iswari tried to give space to Neha to come up with her version of story.
Iswari may have thought that these things happen between a couple and they can be sorted out by them only.
As for celebrating Navratri if she won't she will be the target of criticism again.How can she desist from celebrations when the new bride is in and what is happening in Neha's life? All these questions will arise and she doesn't want that to happen.



Where's the care and concern for her daughter?

It didn't rear its head until Dev and Sona decided to go on a honeymoon.

That's when suddenly her thoughts came, how would Dev live without her?

Never once the thought crossed her head after Neha got married, how will she live without her daughter?

Nor she ever cooked her favourite meal or hovered over her hugging her, cuddling her, spending time with her like she waits for Dev every night.

Why is that?

If she is that concerned for Neha, why is her focus on Dev whose life is sorted?

That is the reality of her concern.

Iswari observed Neha looking sad on seeing the HM preparations. She saw her crying inside. Then she thought of how she must be feeling as she is deprived of such pleasures.Her focus on Dev is her daily routine. Yes she never felt the absence of Neha but she felt she can not manage fifteen days
Without Dev. I can understand. Indian parents get their minds tuned that a daughter has to leave the house. So they accept it gracefully but with sons they develop this inseparability that causes pain fot them when they go for studies or for jobs . My mother was fine with me living away after marriage but till today she can not bear her pain seeing my brother move away abroad. Though living far away she keeps track on him and his kids,it became a daily routine for her. With face time in U.S. Is just a call away for her. But we sisters never felt that she did not love us much.
Neha also shares a nice bond with her mother. Otherwise she would never have opted to stay at Iswari Nivas that also when her married life is on the verge of breakup.

You may take it as manipulation but to me Iswari 's illness is not fake.
She intentionally spoke in such a way to change Dev's mind? Don't know.


Now let's move on to Neha.

1. She went through tough time growing up.

But, what stopped her from completing her studies now? Ranveer is a teacher and he or his family will never stop Neha from studies. She could in fact study anytime after all their money problems got over. But she didn't. Instead she continued to blame Dev and Ishwari for everything. Ishwari deserved the blame. Dev didn't. He had as much choice in his mother's decision as she did.

Yes. Neha has opportunity to study but she did not avail it.

2. She fell in love with a lower middle class teacher and married him. It was a love marriage that Dev tried to stop. She didn't listen and married him anyway.

Again, her choice.
Yes it is her choice.

3. She could not live a lower middle class life and came back to her home (Yes, a girl's family is always her family whether she is married or not). Did anyone raised objection to that or insulted her for it? No.
No one did.

Sona tried to make her comfortable. But when she wanted to be left alone, Sona moved away and gave her space.
Better for both.

But now her problems are spilling over someone else's choice/life.

She can't help it. If a person in the family is suffering it effects others also.
Saurav is in trouble. The whole family is feeling bad.Once it is revealed Sona also will feel bad.About choices that is the immediate effect in such situation.

You can only control the situation as long as your problem remains with yourself. But the moment your problem inconveniences someone else, it's no longer in your control.

Neha never felt bad for her brother's happiness. So many times she told Dev that she is happy for him.She never tried to cause inconvenience . As for her crying and being moody in the house she definitely tried to suppress her pain but when she can't she let her emotions take over.

Choices come with responsibility. And that everyone has to bear. Neha is no exception.
Right now Neha is in confusion.

She chose to marry someone from low income household, then she chose to leave her husband fpr the same reason. I am not saying her reasons are trivial or immaterial like people are trivialising Sona's desire to go on a honeymoon. I am saying that the fact that she made that decision, she will have to leave with the consequences.

I always felt Neha must have thought Ranveer will accept Dev's interference and move ahead in life. But reality is different.Ranveer is not that kind.
Neha tried her best to adjust there. When it became beyond her limits
She stopped trying.She gave five thousand to Sonakshi and Ranveer is
after her.GKB always told Neha not to go ahead.She is right. Knowing Neha's aversion for poverty her marriage with Ranveer may not work. Dev also said so. But she did not listen. Result is before us.

Even if a man leaves his wife for say not being good looking enough, he can no longer expect the same respect from everyone as he did when he was being a good husband.

It's no different for women. So expecting everyone to keep their mouth shut just because it's Neha and she can make issues bigger than the chip in her shoulder is unfair and ridiculous.

That is also Feminism.
No comment.

Now let's move on to Sona (I noticed as usual, you didn't talk about Dev, so it seems you only point out the flaws in women and not men. So I guess, Feminism is a myth for you).

She was never given a choice. Ever since she got married, not one person asked what she wants and that includes her husband.

Did she make mistakes? Yes.

Starting from marrying Dev in a hurry without finding out if Dev learned anything from the break up about NOT taking decisions about both of them on his own.

She initially tried to do everything to fit in and got insulted constantly in the process. Some people including me suggested, leave the family alone and concentrate on your happiness with your husband.

She did exactly that.

She tried to be happy with her husband.

She planned a date to be with her husband and wanted to go away somewhere else where they can spend quality time together. I don't think it would have mattered to her whether they went to Paris or Patna as long as they are together.

As Dev mentioned rightly, "Sab ke saamne hum hum nehin hote."

Very true. Dev does 180 degree personality change in front of his family.

Including taking decisions about his wife without consulting his wife.

So again, Dev did what he does best. He chopped Sona's right to make her own decision in favour of proving that he is the best brother and best son, but he also proved that he is also a typical selfish husband who takes his wife for granted.

Sona's parents for the first time witnessed how Sona's hopes and dreams are treated in Dixit household.

So she did what most women do when they know their parents will think her husband doesn't care about his wife, she whitewashed Dev's solo decision as something she supports.

First she tried to give the flimsy excuse for Ishwari's low BP. But logical Bijoy swept through it.

Then she said that Neha and Ranveer are having problems as a lot of couple do. She didn't share that the reason is money, she didn't share that Neha came back permanently and will never go back (although how she'd hide that fact forever, I don't know). She just gave matter of fact response to her family who is also now DEV's family and they are someone she trusts.

Sona is not wrong in telling her parents. But the place where she did so definitely matter.

Her parents, thinking it's just a minor misunderstanding between husband and wife (as Sona indicated), tried to understand why because of this they had to cancel their honeymoon. They were probably thinking that Ishwari interferes in every matter of Dev, why won't she fix her daughter's life?

They don't know that Ishwari doesn't give two hoots to her daughter's happiness and won't lift a finger to help her unless she can use her daughter to stop Dev from going on his honeymoon with Sona. She doesn't care where Dev goes for business as long as he goes alone.

Sona still stood her ground and turned Dev's decision to her own.

She goes to the room where Dev comes and starts showing attitude. Here I thought he is feeling guilty for trampling over Sona's dreams. But as usual he proved to be as oblivious to Sona when his family is concerned as he always had been.

First sentence from his mouth: How could I not see Neha's pain?

Well, Dev, since you only see what your mother shows you, how could you see anyone's pain until your mother gave a damn? And that's precisely why you can never see Sona's loss of dreams ever...

But Sona, the woman with the heart of solid gold, didn't cry for her lost dreams and hopes of her trip. She became the rock which absolved Dev once again, not that he felt any guilt for Sona whatsoever.

She got her customary pat on the head, I love you, you are the best speech and was happy knowing that she made sure that her husband at least is not going on a guilt trip because of her.

Now let's talk about Feminism...

If Feminism is reality, Sonakshi and Dev would live away from his family after marriage or live in a big house with both their family, not live with ONLY Dev's family.

If Feminism is reality, Dev would set up a bank account for Neha to spend as she sees fit. Ranveer won't have to touch that money. Neha can spend it all on herself or for her house. Just like women alone enjoy their jewellery and usually men don't touch nor decide on when to wear them, how to wear them and what to do with them.

If Feminism is reality, Ishwari would pay attention to her daughter, not her son. Because mothers always pay more attention to the child in pain, not the healthy happy child.
Mothers always are more attached to sons while fathers are with daughters.

If Feminism is reality, we won't be talking about it and wondering whether it's a reality or myth, we will be living in a world with equal pay, equal rights to property, equal opportunity and equal rights to every decision of our own life.

May be. But what I said is completely different. And I chose to talk about lady characters that also the three main charecters that are in focus right now.

I did not chose Dev here but it is not a case of conveniently skipping him because I don't want to judge him.Iswari Neha and Sona is the scope of my topic
ltelidevara thumbnail
Visit Streak 1000 Thumbnail Visit Streak 750 Thumbnail + 8
Posted: 8 years ago
#46
Tia.0 thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 8 years ago
#47
Let me sum it all up. You defended Ishwari on her giving opportunity to Dev instead of Neha saying she is old fashioned, her giving more love to Dev than Neha saying she didn't have time to think during a decade of struggle and she formed a bond with Dev through dependency (although she equally depended on Neha to take care of her other two daughters and do the household chores, but that obviously wasn't bond worthy. All her bonding needs got fulfilled by Dev as if Neha was living a cushy life), yet you expect Sonakshi to think about the location of where to share the sudden news of cancelled trip as well as figure out how to share and what to share about the news which was dropped on her moments ago.

That's holding two people in two separate and completely unbalanced standard.

Secondly, you can still motivate one child to reach their ambition without taking the other for granted which is precisely what Ishwari did. She took her daughter for granted, all of them. That is no one else's fault but her own. There's a reason both Riya and Nikki is closer to Neha than her.

She could have made up for the lost times once Dev became successful. But Ishwari still kept running after Dev. There were three, not two people in the same situation, not counting the two youngest. But Ishwari could never remember that the entire time Dev was just studying and doing little part time jobs, Neha was taking care of the household while she was working. But just like every time a homemaker's contribution goes unnoticed and overlooked.

It's not anything different from society. People say the man earns the money so the money is his. But what about the women who turns the money into food, into other household works, into raising kids? Where's the acknowledgement of their contribution? Nowhere. Feminism doesn't let you overlook that.

Thirdly, you said if she hadn't celebrated Navratri she will be a target for criticism. Yes, she would be. Then if she could celebrate Navratri, why not let Dev and Sona go on honeymoon as well? In Navratri the celebration will be in front of Neha's eyes. But honeymoon will be away from her hence should bother her less, not more. She could have asked them to keep the honeymoon discussion to themselves that's it. That would have taken care of Neha's feelings.

And what about cooking all Dev's favourite food on Dusshera? Why didn't she fed Neha her favourite food? But then she didn't care for Neha beyond initial hug.

Ishwari's illness may not be fake, but the reason she got ill was not because she was worried about Neha. She got worried because Dev was leaving for 15 days.

I won't make comment on your family situation. I am glad you never had to wonder whether your mother loved you or not. But Neha wondered and many times she mentioned that vocally, loudly. Ishwari denied it every time in words, but never showed it in deeds. She kept Neha waiting while she took care of Dev, but never kept Dev waiting while she took care of Neha. Again, that is against the principles of Feminism.

Old-fashioned does not excuse biased motherhood.

Neha knows Ishwari loves her. But she nowhere loves any of her daughters even remotely close to how much she loves Dev. All the daughters know it and Riya and Nikki also has learned to live with it. But not Neha because among mother and son's story of struggle her contribution only shows up to send Dev on a guilt trip to make him dance to Ishwari's tune.

About Neha, what she is going through, nothing can cure.

Because you can't custom make your life without working for it.

Here's what I wrote in another post.

I like Neha too. But I believe nothing will ever make Neha happy until she learns that love, money and happiness does not come without effort. She expects that in exchange of her hardship, from now until eternity she is owed everything. But Dev can give her money, but not a husband's love; Ranveer can give her a husband's love, but not money and only she can give herself happiness. Neha is jealous of Sona because she sees that Sona got all three. But what she doesn't see is that, Sona doesn't have any say nor claim in Dev's money (because after the Vicky fiasco, her pride won't allow it), she had to work damn hard to get her husband's love and she is still working hard at it and she had to find her own happiness among all these efforts.

So nothing Dev and Sona can do for Neha beyond trying to remind her, her love for Ranveer. Now if Neha was dealing with her issues in her own without anyone knowing about her feelings, that's different. Then indeed Neha deserved her time and space which she was given until now.

But she is moping around, walking out between conversation and leaving behind awkward silences. That's a cry for attention. That is not silent suffering that screams 'leave me alone'.

Neha needs to figure out what she wants most in life and what she is willing to give up for it. She can easily divorce Ranveer and marry a rich guy. Will that get her happiness?

She can also go back to Ranveer, but that won't get her money.

She can also ask Dev to set up a bank account for her to spend at her own discretion and go back to Ranveer, but if Ranveer doesn't let her spend a single penny of that money on him, would that still make her happy?

No one can give those answers except her. There's always someone richer, happier and luckier than us. Envying their fortune will only burn us, their life won't change because of it nor their fortune will revert to us.

Dev and Sona just attempted to remind Neha what would she loose if she leaves Ranveer. However if leaving Ranveer is her decision, then I am sure Dev and Sona will support that as well

Regarding not bringing up Dev here whom you don't want to judge that is your choice, but since this post is on Feminism, you are actually not getting the principal of Feminism. Feminism is not man hating, it's about judging both men and women equally. You can't judge one without the other.

You ended the post with this note:


Finally feminism should not be restricted to favouritism.

It is not optional.

So treat all the flawed charecters equally.Let opportunities,rights and power be equally distributed or attributed to Iswari,Neha and Sona. There lies propriety. There lies justice.

Not including Dev or not judging him and defending Ishwari and Neha for all their flaws, you just disproved your point, not the Feminists of the forum. So show the same justice you want to see in others.


Originally posted by: ltelidevara

1. Why did she choose Dev as the person to be given an opportunity and not Neha? She didn't pick her children in random. According to her Neha wanted to study, then why she was not picked?

Let me tell you why. In India, if there's one opportunity available, and the choice is between a boy and a girl, the boy is always picked.

Because in India, girls are expected to leave their family behind and stay with her husband's family and put his family first in every concern henceforth.

And man are expected to marry a girl and bring her to her family to take care of his.

So either way, the man's family benefits from the education provided to his, never a woman's family.

If a man doesn't live with his family after marriage, it seems his family can't survive. But a woman's family is expected to survive just fine no matter how dire their situation is.

That is the reality of equality.

@I agree in India boy is given preference over girls that too when the parents are uneducated this factor gains importance while determining their choices.
Iswari is uneducated. She could never think in the lines of equal opportunities to both genders etc. To her Dev is the son so he should study with whatever resources she provide with her labour.She worked round the clock . She is unable to look after Ria and Nikki. So she needed Neha at home not Dev .She made her choice with whatever understanding she had in that situation.

2. Now let's talk about the thing that a mother has endless supply of - Love.

Since opportunity was limited, Ishwari chose to give it to Dev.

But love was unlimited. Why not give Neha more than her share to make up for it?

Did she do it? No.

She shelled out all of her daughter's share of love also to Dev.

Can you explain the reason for it?k

A mother is supposed to be unbiased. Was she?

That is the reality of motherhood.

@ First thing Iswari's life did not allow her to stop and think and measure the love she has to shower on her kids. She loved Dev motivated him to reach where he has reached because he is the elder one who can understand her struggle,her fight with all kinds of threats constantly threatening her physically and mentally.She developed a bond with him emotionally depending on him to continue with her struggle for survival That doesn't mean she loved her daughter's less.May be she never expressed but she will always be there for them whenever they need.

3. Neha comes back to her mother's home. Where is the mother after initial talk? She was busy calling Dev to find out what he is upto with his wife or cooking his favourite meal on Dusshera and celebrating Navratri while her daughter can't be with her husband.

@ Iswari knows Neha will never open up before her.In the initial episodes Iswari sought Radha Rani's help to talk to Neha and pacify her. Neha always had this grouse on her mother that more preference is given to her brother. Iswari accepted the accusation and made her point before Neha explaining her reasons and the circumstances.
Iswari wholeheartedly welcomed Neha tried to ask the reason but Neha being Neha did not reveal anything. But the warmth with which she hugged her mother said a lot.
Iswari tried to give space to Neha to come up with her version of story.
Iswari may have thought that these things happen between a couple and they can be sorted out by them only.
As for celebrating Navratri if she won't she will be the target of criticism again.How can she desist from celebrations when the new bride is in and what is happening in Neha's life? All these questions will arise and she doesn't want that to happen.



Where's the care and concern for her daughter?

It didn't rear its head until Dev and Sona decided to go on a honeymoon.

That's when suddenly her thoughts came, how would Dev live without her?

Never once the thought crossed her head after Neha got married, how will she live without her daughter?

Nor she ever cooked her favourite meal or hovered over her hugging her, cuddling her, spending time with her like she waits for Dev every night.

Why is that?

If she is that concerned for Neha, why is her focus on Dev whose life is sorted?

That is the reality of her concern.

@ Iswari observed Neha looking sad on seeing the HM preparations. She saw her crying inside. Then she thought of how she must be feeling as she is deprived of such pleasures.Her focus on Dev is her daily routine. Yes she never felt the absence of Neha but she felt she can not manage fifteen days
Without Dev. I can understand. Indian parents get their minds tuned that a daughter has to leave the house. So they accept it gracefully but with sons they develop this inseparability that causes pain fot them when they go for studies or for jobs . My mother was fine with me living away after marriage but till today she can not bear her pain seeing my brother move away abroad. Though living far away she keeps track on him and his kids,it became a daily routine for her. With face time in U.S. Is just a call away for her. But we sisters never felt that she did not love us much.
Neha also shares a nice bond with her mother. Otherwise she would never have opted to stay at Iswari Nivas that also when her married life is on the verge of breakup.

You may take it as manipulation but to me Iswari 's illness is not fake.
She intentionally spoke in such a way to change Dev's mind? Don't know.


Now let's move on to Neha.

1. She went through tough time growing up.

But, what stopped her from completing her studies now? Ranveer is a teacher and he or his family will never stop Neha from studies. She could in fact study anytime after all their money problems got over. But she didn't. Instead she continued to blame Dev and Ishwari for everything. Ishwari deserved the blame. Dev didn't. He had as much choice in his mother's decision as she did.

Yes. Neha has opportunity to study but she did not avail it.

2. She fell in love with a lower middle class teacher and married him. It was a love marriage that Dev tried to stop. She didn't listen and married him anyway.

Again, her choice.
Yes it is her choice.

3. She could not live a lower middle class life and came back to her home (Yes, a girl's family is always her family whether she is married or not). Did anyone raised objection to that or insulted her for it? No.
No one did.

Sona tried to make her comfortable. But when she wanted to be left alone, Sona moved away and gave her space.
Better for both.

But now her problems are spilling over someone else's choice/life.

She can't help it. If a person in the family is suffering it effects others also.
Saurav is in trouble. The whole family is feeling bad.Once it is revealed Sona also will feel bad.About choices that is the immediate effect in such situation.

You can only control the situation as long as your problem remains with yourself. But the moment your problem inconveniences someone else, it's no longer in your control.

Neha never felt bad for her brother's happiness. So many times she told Dev that she is happy for him.She never tried to cause inconvenience . As for her crying and being moody in the house she definitely tried to suppress her pain but when she can't she let her emotions take over.

Choices come with responsibility. And that everyone has to bear. Neha is no exception.
Right now Neha is in confusion.

She chose to marry someone from low income household, then she chose to leave her husband fpr the same reason. I am not saying her reasons are trivial or immaterial like people are trivialising Sona's desire to go on a honeymoon. I am saying that the fact that she made that decision, she will have to leave with the consequences.

I always felt Neha must have thought Ranveer will accept Dev's interference and move ahead in life. But reality is different.Ranveer is not that kind.
Neha tried her best to adjust there. When it became beyond her limits
She stopped trying.She gave five thousand to Sonakshi and Ranveer is
after her.GKB always told Neha not to go ahead.She is right. Knowing Neha's aversion for poverty her marriage with Ranveer may not work. Dev also said so. But she did not listen. Result is before us.

Even if a man leaves his wife for say not being good looking enough, he can no longer expect the same respect from everyone as he did when he was being a good husband.

It's no different for women. So expecting everyone to keep their mouth shut just because it's Neha and she can make issues bigger than the chip in her shoulder is unfair and ridiculous.

That is also Feminism.
@ No comment.

Now let's move on to Sona (I noticed as usual, you didn't talk about Dev, so it seems you only point out the flaws in women and not men. So I guess, Feminism is a myth for you).

She was never given a choice. Ever since she got married, not one person asked what she wants and that includes her husband.

Did she make mistakes? Yes.

Starting from marrying Dev in a hurry without finding out if Dev learned anything from the break up about NOT taking decisions about both of them on his own.

She initially tried to do everything to fit in and got insulted constantly in the process. Some people including me suggested, leave the family alone and concentrate on your happiness with your husband.

She did exactly that.

She tried to be happy with her husband.

She planned a date to be with her husband and wanted to go away somewhere else where they can spend quality time together. I don't think it would have mattered to her whether they went to Paris or Patna as long as they are together.

As Dev mentioned rightly, "Sab ke saamne hum hum nehin hote."

Very true. Dev does 180 degree personality change in front of his family.

Including taking decisions about his wife without consulting his wife.

So again, Dev did what he does best. He chopped Sona's right to make her own decision in favour of proving that he is the best brother and best son, but he also proved that he is also a typical selfish husband who takes his wife for granted.

Sona's parents for the first time witnessed how Sona's hopes and dreams are treated in Dixit household.

So she did what most women do when they know their parents will think her husband doesn't care about his wife, she whitewashed Dev's solo decision as something she supports.

First she tried to give the flimsy excuse for Ishwari's low BP. But logical Bijoy swept through it.

Then she said that Neha and Ranveer are having problems as a lot of couple do. She didn't share that the reason is money, she didn't share that Neha came back permanently and will never go back (although how she'd hide that fact forever, I don't know). She just gave matter of fact response to her family who is also now DEV's family and they are someone she trusts.

Sona is not wrong in telling her parents. But the place where she did so definitely matter.

Her parents, thinking it's just a minor misunderstanding between husband and wife (as Sona indicated), tried to understand why because of this they had to cancel their honeymoon. They were probably thinking that Ishwari interferes in every matter of Dev, why won't she fix her daughter's life?

They don't know that Ishwari doesn't give two hoots to her daughter's happiness and won't lift a finger to help her unless she can use her daughter to stop Dev from going on his honeymoon with Sona. She doesn't care where Dev goes for business as long as he goes alone.

Sona still stood her ground and turned Dev's decision to her own.

She goes to the room where Dev comes and starts showing attitude. Here I thought he is feeling guilty for trampling over Sona's dreams. But as usual he proved to be as oblivious to Sona when his family is concerned as he always had been.

First sentence from his mouth: How could I not see Neha's pain?

Well, Dev, since you only see what your mother shows you, how could you see anyone's pain until your mother gave a damn? And that's precisely why you can never see Sona's loss of dreams ever...

But Sona, the woman with the heart of solid gold, didn't cry for her lost dreams and hopes of her trip. She became the rock which absolved Dev once again, not that he felt any guilt for Sona whatsoever.

She got her customary pat on the head, I love you, you are the best speech and was happy knowing that she made sure that her husband at least is not going on a guilt trip because of her.

Now let's talk about Feminism...

If Feminism is reality, Sonakshi and Dev would live away from his family after marriage or live in a big house with both their family, not live with ONLY Dev's family.

If Feminism is reality, Dev would set up a bank account for Neha to spend as she sees fit. Ranveer won't have to touch that money. Neha can spend it all on herself or for her house. Just like women alone enjoy their jewellery and usually men don't touch nor decide on when to wear them, how to wear them and what to do with them.

If Feminism is reality, Ishwari would pay attention to her daughter, not her son. Because mothers always pay more attention to the child in pain, not the healthy happy child.
Mothers always are more attached to sons while fathers are with daughters.

If Feminism is reality, we won't be talking about it and wondering whether it's a reality or myth, we will be living in a world with equal pay, equal rights to property, equal opportunity and equal rights to every decision of our own life.

@ May be. But what I said is completely different. And I chose to talk about lady characters that also the three main charecters that are in focus right now.

I did not chose Dev here but it is not a case of conveniently skipping him because I don't want to judge him.Iswari Neha and Sona is the scope of my topic

ltelidevara thumbnail
Visit Streak 1000 Thumbnail Visit Streak 750 Thumbnail + 8
Posted: 8 years ago
#48
@ Tia
g Ishwari and Neha for all their flaws, you just disproved your point, not the Feminists of the forum. So show the same justice you want to see in others
Tia, I criticised Dev many times in many posts may be you are not aware of them. I never supported his actions. I blamed the CVs also for the downfall of that Charecter in my posts like" Dev Dikshit not spared"
So if you think I am safeguarding him by not bringing him into the picture it is false.. This post I chose to talk about Iswari Neha and Sona. I have every right to decide the scope of my post.If you still think that I am sparing him because I favour him,I can't help. I love Shaheer not Dev.

Like many want to understand the Charecter of Sona and defend her action,I feel for Iswari and Neha and I am entitled to my choice. For you Sona revealing Neha's tissue in the hall is not at all wrong for me it is. Similarly Iswari is wrong for you she may not be so for me.
So we can't come to any middle path and merge our school of thought because we don't think alike. That is the fact.
ltelidevara thumbnail
Visit Streak 1000 Thumbnail Visit Streak 750 Thumbnail + 8
Posted: 8 years ago
#49
Ok first of all, I didn't expect this post from you honestly. 😔 As it clearly targets the feminists of the forum which includes me as well, I do take offence here.

@I am really sorry if I offended you. I didn't intend that. I only wanted people who stand by women despite their flaws try to understand Iswari and Neha also. I didn't mean that their mistakes should be overlooked. But given their troubled past I felt sadder for them. Sorry again.

Some pointers :

1. Ishwari might be a GREAT fighter, but clearly not a winner in the race. When poverty or bad times hit people, people make choices based on their characteristics. If you ask me, snatching books from one child to give to the other one - is one of the MOST cruel things to do. I have applauded her in the past for the struggle and bringing them up with her dignity intact in such crazy world, but what she did to all her kids is horrible. To send Dev to a better school, she deprived Neha ? What was such urgent need to make Dev such filthy rich and make all others in the family a parasite on Dev ? When poverty hits a family, a balanced approach is to fight it together, to earn together and support together. If Dev had not gone to the bigger school and if both Dev and Neha had continued study and both had joined a mediocre job profile with decent earnings, wouldn't that be sufficient for Ishwari ? What was such urgency to make Dev filthy rich and in order to do that, misbalancing the whole family ? To fight her own battle, she produced 2 defective products and spoilt her own psychological balance (yes, living in denial/wanting to live in the past IS indeed a disorder and needs counselling/medical attention).
@ Your points are valid if Iswari is an educated knowledgable woman of today. She is not. For her boy has to study and be competent to take over her responsibilities. We can't judge every one on equal scale.Ishwari is illiterate . She decided as per her ability to decide. That's all. My servant maid spends to send her son to school but brings her daughter for work. Importance of girl child and her education did not reach such people as yet. Iswari is one among them.



2. Coming to Neha - I am not the one who wants Neha out of Dixit House neither do I blame her for shouting at Sona. But you said 2 lines in 2 consecutive paragraphs - "Every daughter though married still belongs to her parents." and "Today I found it irritating when Sona revealed the issue of Neha to her parents that too in the public place . Isn't it Neha's personal matter?" - If daughters after marriage still belong to the parents, then why can't Sona share everything with her parents ? Neha is much able to handle her own problems. What is the issue here with feminism when the very person whom you are defending here i.e. Ishwari is using her married daughter's distraught life for her own convenience. If I were that much fan of Neha, I would be deeply offended by someone using the pain of my favorite character for their own selfish reasons and actually has NO concern about her. 😳

@ Sona has every right to tell her parents. But not in the hall.Iswari using Neha issue I am not sure. May be on seeing Neha depressed she felt bad and that lead to her behave the way she did. I don't think she planned and fainted.

3. You are not believer of Feminism since you say many people these days are misusing that. But surprisingly your post speaks in the favour of 2 such people who does use Feminism as a weapon. In one hand we have Ishwari who always expects her daughters not to stand on their own and depend on Dev for all luxury and necessity (As a male member of the family, acc. to Ishwari he remains the provider) which makes them take advantage of being women. On the other hand we have Neha who comes back to her old house when she doesn't like to stay with her husband and is missing the luxuries, an option which only woman can afford to have. As a firm believer of feminism, I strongly oppose the way Dev is overburdened with his family's responsibilities, Ishwari is extremely selfish to expect only her son to take all the troubles whereas she expects her daughters to get all luxuries in the world without doing any struggle. As strong believer of feminism, I also strongly oppose Neha's non-understanding attitude towards Ranveer. Yes, I want Sona to follow Neha's route and run from the Dixit-madhouse asap, but Ranveer's family is NOTHING like that, they INDEED are in monetary trouble. This is not man-made created problems, this is actual situation which as a family should battle together. I don't have problem with Neha's staying in the Dixit House, but I do have a problem with her leaving Ranveer to fight with the real-life problems on his own and coming staying here in luxury. I do feel bad for Ranveer. Anyways, Neha's problem lies in her troubled past for which again Ishwari's bias is involved. Sonakshi Bose has nothing to do with any of these. And yes, Sona is the only character in the show who truly comes across as a strong, independent (and lately emotional fool to marry a guy and family like Dev) woman who has full charge on her own life and has the guts to make and correct the mistakes she makes without anyone's help. If you don't like feminism, obviously you wont like Sonakshi Bose. 😉

@ About Dev holding responsibilities alone I disagree. I respect your opinion. I came from a family where my father sacrificed his wish to study BTech to make his two brothers become Engineers. He did not feel bad ever. But this point is too delicate so I won't argue.
Neha I feel for her. She took a wrong decision despite Dev and GKB warning her and suffers now.
I hope she will take time and decide what is good for her.
Any way thank you very much for taking time to express your views. Though I have difference of opinion I always liked to read yours.
[
Edited by ltelidevara - 8 years ago
shruthiravi thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 8 years ago
#50
@Lakshmi after a long time just came to the forum to check out and bang your post. I read through it. It is a wonderful post. I am not watching the show.
But I know one thing. Ishwari has insecurities, so does Neha. And Sona was in that house. She knows everyone. Has seen everyone. Also in one promo it was shown Dev tried to commit suicide for Sona.
If Sona is a woman with some brain she will not marry Dev. Emotional blackmail is a worst trait in a man and he can use it anytime to make you bend to your demand. Also she experienced first hand Ishwari was insecure about her when the marriage broke the first time. Why do you want to end up in such a house.
If you become the DIL of such a house then what comes your way is your choice. Don't cry, shout or make an issue of it. Unfortunately no sympathies for Sona.
But don't worry. In IF you go against the leading lady there will be enough bashers, because that is feminism. Everything leading lady does have to be approved.
I am a feminist and I am proud to say I am a feminist. But that doesn't mean I will support logic less female characters of indian TV.

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".