Feminism A Reality Or A Myth?

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WeRockTheWorld

@WeRockTheWorld

Sparkler

+ 6

Posted: 8 years ago

#31

Originally posted by: notacrimetolove

That's the thing isn't it? It's called mother earth but is it really? Are women given the same rights as men on this earth? No. So what's in a name when actions say otherwise?

Agreed ...I was just looking at the irony of the words...thats all...

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Niva1

@Niva1

Voyager

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

#32

Originally posted by: ltelidevara

I don't suppose that feminists are obligated to support all the women in all that they do - just as men can be wrong, women can be wrong too, and we know the famous saying that women are biggest enemy of women is true in many cases. These are all very general points, I do not think any of us needs to know or mention them anymore. Neha is shouting without knowing full truth and making a drama, while what Sona did was unwitting and a mere statement of fact. A mistake you do innocently versus a drama you enact purposefully makes the difference in how your action would be and SHOULD be viewed.

As far as feminism is concerned, I don't understand what is wrong with the philosophy itself - Liek socialism, like democracy, like the concept of justice, concept of sovereignty, libertarianism and egalitarianism, feminism is also a philosophy. But not all the philosophies gain as much followership as other philosophies do, simply because their need and impact is not as much. In today's context 'Why feminism?' can hardly be the question, it should actually be "how feminism?". simply because the thought that world is highly unfair to women should not need justification. Again, just as Marxism started getting flack from the world when it went radical, feminism should draw flack too when it becomes radical. But outrightly rejecting the concept seems unjust to me. I do respect that you believe in equality more, and that is praiseworthy, but if you start defining feminism correctly, it would simply be the flip side of the coin called equality.

Because as far as I understand - Feminism means freedom to women to make their own choices and to act in manner they so choose, just as choices are allowed to men. Obviously one's choice should not inflict upon other's freedom to choose and therein lies the boundary of these thoughts. So feminism first stands for liberty which will then result in equality and that will be called justice.

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ltelidevara

@ltelidevara

Sparkler

+ 8

Posted: 8 years ago

#33

Originally posted by: Niva1
I don't think Neha is a drama queen. She is upfront short tempered and outspoken.She has every right to get angry when she heard the conversation. No girl would like to be named as one who spoilt the happiness of her brother.Any one in Neha's place will feel bad. If Sona did it unwittingly Neha did it intentionally. She acted as per her Charecter.
As for defining Feminism my only wish is that all the charecters should be understood in the light of their basic nature and past experiences.Obviously a woman with bitter past will definitely carry the burden of her dark past that compels her to behave abnormally.
So Neha should be treated as per her present traumatic condition and her past that need no mention again.

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Niva1

@Niva1

Voyager

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

#34

@Itelidevara - you are quite right that Neha's pain should be understood and so should be Sona's. That would be fair. Secondly become a certain kind of character doesn't matter which kind, does not give anyone right to walk all over the other person, hurt them and create scenes. If their arr faults in one's behavior, the actions borne out of them don't get justification based on that behaviour. One can't say that Mr. X was always an aggressive person, murdering someone out of anger is result of tgat personality trait and hence he should be forgiven.

Neha is one of my favorite character mainlg because of the quality you have written in your post, but I still don't condone wrong behaviour born out of those qualities, especially if it is repeated offence.

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ltelidevara

@ltelidevara

Sparkler

+ 8

Posted: 8 years ago

#35

@ Niva 1

We both differ in feeling the pain of the charecters. You feel Sona should not be questioned by Neha even if she shared Neha's issue with her parents. It hurts you because Sona is answerable here before all the family members.

I feel for Neha who is hurt as her name took the centre stage as the reason for HM cancellation. That too before Sona's parents who will feel Sona's happiness had been taken away due to Neha's presence and her problems. Asha may understand but Bijoy will definitely feel bad.

So Neha felt awkward,furious,and hurt. She knows only one way to retort. Confront and clear off.

Yes it is natural for you to feel for Sona and it is natural for me to feel for Neha.

Different mind sets different thought process different choices.Facts.

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Tia.0

@Tia.0

Sparkler

+ 6

Posted: 8 years ago

#36

You are right, Feminism is a myth.

Because as you defined using dictionary, Feminism is the belief that everyone, regardless of gender should receive equal opportunity, equal rights and equal freedom of choice.

The fact that it's a belief and not a well-established reality, that is an unfortunate fact.

Here's some things you conveniently overlooked.

Ishwari is a great mother according to you. She sacrificed a lot for her son taking away opportunity from other children including Neha.

1. Why did she choose Dev as the person to be given an opportunity and not Neha? She didn't pick her children in random. According to her Neha wanted to study, then why she was not picked?

Let me tell you why. In India, if there's one opportunity available, and the choice is between a boy and a girl, the boy is always picked.

Because in India, girls are expected to leave their family behind and stay with her husband's family and put his family first in every concern henceforth.

And man are expected to marry a girl and bring her to her family to take care of his.

So either way, the man's family benefits from the education provided to his, never a woman's family.

If a man doesn't live with his family after marriage, it seems his family can't survive. But a woman's family is expected to survive just fine no matter how dire their situation is.

That is the reality of equality.

2. Now let's talk about the thing that a mother has endless supply of - Love.

Since opportunity was limited, Ishwari chose to give it to Dev.

But love was unlimited. Why not give Neha more than her share to make up for it?

Did she do it? No.

She shelled out all of her daughter's share of love also to Dev.

Can you explain the reason for it?

A mother is supposed to be unbiased. Was she?

That is the reality of motherhood.

3. Neha comes back to her mother's home. Where is the mother after initial talk? She was busy calling Dev to find out what he is upto with his wife or cooking his favourite meal on Dusshera and celebrating Navratri while her daughter can't be with her husband.

Where's the care and concern for her daughter?

It didn't rear its head until Dev and Sona decided to go on a honeymoon.

That's when suddenly her thoughts came, how would Dev live without her?

Never once the thought crossed her head after Neha got married, how will she live without her daughter?

Nor she ever cooked her favourite meal or hovered over her hugging her, cuddling her, spending time with her like she waits for Dev every night.

Why is that?

If she is that concerned for Neha, why is her focus on Dev whose life is sorted?

That is the reality of her concern.

Now let's move on to Neha.

1. She went through tough time growing up.

But, what stopped her from completing her studies now? Ranveer is a teacher and he or his family will never stop Neha from studies. She could in fact study anytime after all their money problems got over. But she didn't. Instead she continued to blame Dev and Ishwari for everything. Ishwari deserved the blame. Dev didn't. He had as much choice in his mother's decision as she did.

2. She fell in love with a lower middle class teacher and married him. It was a love marriage that Dev tried to stop. She didn't listen and married him anyway.

Again, her choice.

3. She could not live a lower middle class life and came back to her home (Yes, a girl's family is always her family whether she is married or not). Did anyone raised objection to that or insulted her for it? No.

Sona tried to make her comfortable. But when she wanted to be left alone, Sona moved away and gave her space.

But now her problems are spilling over someone else's choice/life.

You can only control the situation as long as your problem remains with yourself. But the moment your problem inconveniences someone else, it's no longer in your control.

Choices come with responsibility. And that everyone has to bear. Neha is no exception.

She chose to marry someone from low income household, then she chose to leave her husband fpr the same reason. I am not saying her reasons are trivial or immaterial like people are trivialising Sona's desire to go on a honeymoon. I am saying that the fact that she made that decision, she will have to leave with the consequences.

Even if a man leaves his wife for say not being good looking enough, he can no longer expect the same respect from everyone as he did when he was being a good husband.

It's no different for women. So expecting everyone to keep their mouth shut just because it's Neha and she can make issues bigger than the chip in her shoulder is unfair and ridiculous.

That is also Feminism.

Now let's move on to Sona (I noticed as usual, you didn't talk about Dev, so it seems you only point out the flaws in women and not men. So I guess, Feminism is a myth for you).

She was never given a choice. Ever since she got married, not one person asked what she wants and that includes her husband.

Did she make mistakes? Yes.

Starting from marrying Dev in a hurry without finding out if Dev learned anything from the break up about NOT taking decisions about both of them on his own.

She initially tried to do everything to fit in and got insulted constantly in the process. Some people including me suggested, leave the family alone and concentrate on your happiness with your husband.

She did exactly that.

She tried to be happy with her husband.

She planned a date to be with her husband and wanted to go away somewhere else where they can spend quality time together. I don't think it would have mattered to her whether they went to Paris or Patna as long as they are together.

As Dev mentioned rightly, "Sab ke saamne hum hum nehin hote."

Very true. Dev does 180 degree personality change in front of his family.

Including taking decisions about his wife without consulting his wife.

So again, Dev did what he does best. He chopped Sona's right to make her own decision in favour of proving that he is the best brother and best son, but he also proved that he is also a typical selfish husband who takes his wife for granted.

Sona's parents for the first time witnessed how Sona's hopes and dreams are treated in Dixit household.

So she did what most women do when they know their parents will think her husband doesn't care about his wife, she whitewashed Dev's solo decision as something she supports.

First she tried to give the flimsy excuse for Ishwari's low BP. But logical Bijoy swept through it.

Then she said that Neha and Ranveer are having problems as a lot of couple do. She didn't share that the reason is money, she didn't share that Neha came back permanently and will never go back (although how she'd hide that fact forever, I don't know). She just gave matter of fact response to her family who is also now DEV's family and they are someone she trusts.

Her parents, thinking it's just a minor misunderstanding between husband and wife (as Sona indicated), tried to understand why because of this they had to cancel their honeymoon. They were probably thinking that Ishwari interferes in every matter of Dev, why won't she fix her daughter's life?

They don't know that Ishwari doesn't give two hoots to her daughter's happiness and won't lift a finger to help her unless she can use her daughter to stop Dev from going on his honeymoon with Sona. She doesn't care where Dev goes for business as long as he goes alone.

Sona still stood her ground and turned Dev's decision to her own.

She goes to the room where Dev comes and starts showing attitude. Here I thought he is feeling guilty for trampling over Sona's dreams. But as usual he proved to be as oblivious to Sona when his family is concerned as he always had been.

First sentence from his mouth: How could I not see Neha's pain?

Well, Dev, since you only see what your mother shows you, how could you see anyone's pain until your mother gave a damn? And that's precisely why you can never see Sona's loss of dreams ever...

But Sona, the woman with the heart of solid gold, didn't cry for her lost dreams and hopes of her trip. She became the rock which absolved Dev once again, not that he felt any guilt for Sona whatsoever.

She got her customary pat on the head, I love you, you are the best speech and was happy knowing that she made sure that her husband at least is not going on a guilt trip because of her.

Now let's talk about Feminism...

If Feminism is reality, Sonakshi and Dev would live away from his family after marriage or live in a big house with both their family, not live with ONLY Dev's family.

If Feminism is reality, Dev would set up a bank account for Neha to spend as she sees fit. Ranveer won't have to touch that money. Neha can spend it all on herself or for her house. Just like women alone enjoy their jewellery and usually men don't touch nor decide on when to wear them, how to wear them and what to do with them.

If Feminism is reality, Ishwari would pay attention to her daughter, not her son. Because mothers always pay more attention to the child in pain, not the healthy happy child.

If Feminism is reality, we won't be talking about it and wondering whether it's a reality or myth, we will be living in a world with equal pay, equal rights to property, equal opportunity and equal rights to every decision of our own life.

Edited by tia.o - 8 years ago

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Shilky88

@Shilky88

Voyager

Posted: 8 years ago

#37

[Sonakshi: Well I am the only one who finds fault with whatever she does . And I am not ashamed of it.]

I quiet dint understand that. Ishwrai,GKB,Vicky,Neha are not so positive character in this show but I still cannot say that I find fault in WHATEVER they do.

Edited by Shilky88 - 8 years ago

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Zeddriz7

@Zeddriz7

Navigator

Posted: 8 years ago

#38

Tbh, I don't think Sonakshi was wrong. She never blamed her. She just stated that it was necessary for Dev and herself to be here to support Neha and take care of Ishwari. I don't think there's anything wrong if she shared that with her family.

As for Neha, yes it's sad she didn't have a good childhood...But Dev also didn't have a good one...Before her marriage, Neha had promised Dev that if he made Ranveer rich, she would forget and forgive all that happened to her in childhood. It's really sad to see Dev is being constantly being made guilty and sad over her childhood, a past which Dev can't go back and change...

As for Ishwari, well tbh I can't say much..After yesterday's episode.. I feel that not just Sona, if any other girl would have been Dev;s wife, Ishwari would still feel bad for Neha.. It's obvious Dev would go on a high profile HM whether it was sona or anyone else in place of her.. So why lament over it? She already knew Ranveer's condition..But remember she said so many things "Bade ghar se acha chota ghar hota hai.. Neha ko ranveer mil gaya kaafi hai"..but now again money has come into play...
I don't know why but for the first time GKB was actually right when she was stopping Neha telling her she wouldn't adjust there..

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Push-pull

@Push-pull

Sparkler

Posted: 8 years ago

#39

Originally posted by: tia.o

Now let's talk about Feminism...

If Feminism is reality, Sonakshi and Dev would live away from his family after marriage or live in a big house with both their family, not live with ONLY Dev's family.

If Feminism is reality, Dev would set up a bank account for Neha to spend as she sees fit. Ranveer won't have to touch that money. Neha can spend it all on herself or for her house. Just like women alone enjoy their jewellery and usually men don't touch nor decide on when to wear them, how to wear them and what to do with them.

If Feminism is reality, Ishwari would pay attention to her daughter, not her son. Because mothers always pay more attention to the child in pain, not the healthy happy child.

If Feminism is reality, we won't be talking about it and wondering whether it's a reality or myth, we will be living in a world with equal pay, equal rights to property, equal opportunity and equal rights to every decision of our own life.

Wow girl.. What a hell of a speech that is.. 👏 Gotta appreciate your patience and control of emotions throughout.. 😃

Every human being has some strength.. Like wise women are strong too.. Why don't we just make the world perceive that strength in the way it should be seen.. We do.. We eat.. We want.. As much as any human being... But yeah amidst the fakeness, it's very difficult to identify the real expert ones... That's why people have trouble appreciating the real changes that the real experts bring in...

And this topic can go on and on with no ends to it, with a right mindset to have a healthy discussion.. Not just for the sake of it.. Glad to see your depth and insights.. Keep up the spirit girl.. 👍🏼

Only point I wanted to highlight.. the bold one.. Yes, Ishu is from a generation where that's what the reality.. And she was not in a position to do a revolutionary change.. She had to do what she had with her resources.. She couldn't afford to make trials with her resources... And also Dev as a child showed a support and understanding for his mother's struggle which Neha didn't show.. Ishu must have been the smart one to use the right potential in the right way.. 😉

Neha would have enjoyed her education but wouldn't have been the one to be played around Ishu's finger tips.. Then all Ishu's struggle would be wasted on her taking them nowhere..

That's where I would also want to forgive Ishu for her own limitation provided by her environment and the society status.. So as a next generation people we have to understand their limitations and accept their efforts.. But Ishuuu with her present behavior is completely cornering herself as a woman who can't be recognized for whatever she did.. Because she's too loud for that calling out her struggles in every given chance making it all lost in her showcase.. Too much of pulling back is only gonna push the people away..

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vibg

@vibg

Rocker

Posted: 8 years ago

#40

Feminism or not...

Ishwari is WRONG.. PERIOD! no normal person, woman, mother, daughterinlaw, sister, daughter can find what Ishwari does and doing NORMAL and part and parcel of being a single mother who has worked hard to raise her children. her sacrifices come with a lifetime of return payments from Dev. because she led a harsh life, she can not allow Dev to be happy now when they have everything.

It was she who decided to discriminate, not Dev or Neha. It was she who continued to discriminate even after Dev became successful. It was she who neglected and continues to neglect her daughters. It is she who is not allowing her sacrificing, dutiful, loving, caring son to lead a happy life with loveofhislife. It is she who is not lifting a finger to help Neha find peace and happiness. It is her job, not Dev's or Sona's. No amount of EXCUSES can justify Ishwari's actions. She needs mental treatment!!!!

As for others, it's your POV. IMO, Neha's life is a result of her mother's doing. what she is going through is valid and fair. But, how she is behaving since her return.. not xptable!!! her lashing out, shouting, yelling, accusing is not a NORMAL or NEEDED reaction. nothing that is happening to her can justify her behavior towards others or Sona. Maybe, she needs to find out real reason for cancellation of HM and yell and shout at that person... as she has done all her life😆

I love the character of Sona, but she has disappointed me many times by making decisions based on her mad love for Dev. But, that is fine.. her choice. her actions only impact her happiness and her self respect...noone else's. As for yesterday's episode... she was right in supporting Dev. I would have done the same.. the moment Dev said "kya mera kuch bhi nahin hai is ghar mein"... Sona forgot all her sadness and anger! I am not biased towards Sona by any means.

Feminism is not a Myth! and yes, it is used by some women to justify their desires.. but that's with everything. I hate when people make "feminism" out to be a bad word!

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