Guys, a little sensitivity? - Page 5

Originally posted by: dsr11

I am one of those who believe that martyrdom doesn't solve problems but it actually makes them worse. What Dev and his sisters are doing with Eeshwari is martyrdom. Putting her wishes above their own and looking for her happiness in everything they do. It's codependency. Every time Eeshwari wants something from Dev, she throws a fit or hurts herself and Dev does whatever she wishes so that she can be happy. That's totally unhealthy. I don't wish Sona to try and pacify her. She needs to speak her mind like Neha.

Every parent gives their all in raising their children, but that doesn't mean they have a right to expect the child to be bound to them for life. That's against laws of nature. Babies always leave the nest once they grow wings and the mother should be happy for them. If she is feeling lonely, she should find something useful to do with her life instead of sucking the happiness out of their families.

I loved your post. You said it all. Why don't you share your post to Mamta Yash Patnaik? She has Twitter, Instagram and Facebook accounts.

What a brilliant post... Thanks for writing this! This is such a sensitive topic glad you penned this

I feel it's completely anxiety/ depression/guilt build up..a
It's not a deliberate action on her part to commit suicide .she doesn't want to leave her children, end her life ... It's purely a haste subconscious step on her part!

NICE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION
glad u brought this tis topic

Originally posted by: Sharicafan

I am a qualified psychiatrist...Intentional self harm/suicide attempts could be due to multiple reasons...Ishwari is not clinically depressed.It is very clearly an impulsive attempt (atleast that is what the promo shows)

More than a clinical disorder, Ishwari has personality issues...fear of abandonment, low frustration tolerance, resistance to change, high levels of insecurity and basically a flawed attachment pattern with her son which is highly unhealthy for the whole family and not just her. She needs intensive individual therapy and family therapy too..

The suicide attempt was not an actual threat but more like attention seeking?

Can I just say, WOW! Some truly amazing discussions have happened on this thread since I last took a look and it's simply amazing to see all the different points of view! It's a bit intimidating to try and respond to each post individually, so all my responses below:

@Amuuty: Completely agree. This show is really driving home the message that no human is god and to place them in such a position is to put incredible pressure on their shoulders. Dev and Ishwari have done it to each other for so long, and we are seeing the negative effects of that so clearly on both of them.

@LiveLife321: Yes, the halwa incident was a perfect encapsulation of how all three of them are making mistakes and feeding into each other's doubts, insecurities and in Dev's case, oblivion. Sona had a nice idea, but she charged ahead without any idea about the history or sentiment wrapped up in that besan ka halwa, and the level to which Ishwari is capable of subtle manipulation. Man, that woman is a mastermind!

@desigirl1987: Thanks! As I mentioned before, I am not saying we have to agree with everything Ishwari does, just maybe give a little consideration to the way we phrase our feelings towards her at this stage of the story.

@dsr11: Well, once she attempts suicide, I don't think there's any escaping from the fact that she has a problem. But I do see what you mean. Ishwari is a very stubborn women; she had to have a major health mishap even to start allowing Sona to tell her what to eat and what not to. I hope this incident will act as the instigator for her to start listening to professionals about her mental health as well. The thing about Dev's and her codependence is that it has been their lifeline for so long that neither of them can even imagine living any other way. We can see how it is unhealthy from an outside perspective, but the challenge lies in how they come to that realisation and begin a healing process.

@Vimal.M: I think all of us are terrified that any moment the show will take a turn and Sona will turn into your "Mahanta ki murti, tyaag ki devi!" So far they have managed to strike quite a good balance, clearly showing Sona is losing herself a bit in love as a negative thing. Thankfully, she os constantly being anchored in her values by her family on the other side, which gives her strength to fight back against the subterfuge and passive aggression she faces from Ishwari and now even Dev. Had they not had the break-up lined up, I think this show would have gone the typical route but now at least Dev's eyes will be opened to his life without Sona, and his mother's role in that development. Hopefully that will be the first step to seeing her humanity.

@AnnzSageflower7: What an insightful response; I absolutely loved reading it! There is no doubt that the harsh life Ishwari was exposed to, that too with four young children dependent on her, has left lasting scars that she doesn't want to acknowledge, and for which society gives her no vocabulary. The ramifications on her physical well-being have been long apparent since they are the reason Sona came to work for the Dixits, and slowly they have built up how her mental and emotional wounds are no less raw. Huh, I never thought about the way Ishwari sees Sona, perhaps as someone superior to herself since she is mature and educated. If that's the case, it's no wonder that she is clinging to cooking, and feels so threatened by Sona learning how to do it just like her. And in all her good intention, Sona did come on a bit too strong with the halwa incident. She could have kept Dev's preference aside for this purpose and learned how to make sooji halwa as Ishwari suggested, if she really felt compelled to do anything at all. I'm with you that the ideal would be for her to back off entirely for now!

@Itelidevara: Thanks for reading and understanding my point of view!

@cool_wonder: Absolutely, RR is not helping anything by constantly voicing and reifying Ishwari's fears. I too am looking forward to how they handle Ishwari's recovery and evolution!

@JazzyM: Even in western culture, though it's better than in India, there is still a lot of taboo around seeking help for mental health issues. In that light, I am glad this show has built up Ishwari's mental trauma quite well. To be honest, I haven't seen a good representation of therapy on Indian TV yet, but I really hope they use this opportunity to show that. I know it's disheartening to read about the break-up, but Dev needs a jhatka like that to really break him out of his oblivion right now.

@ARCH21: Bang on! You captured discomfort that prompted this post so sharply and accurately, especially in these lines:

"Irrespective of how evil she is shown in any episode, I wouldn't wish this step on the worst enemy."

"When the viewers love a show, can we be discerning & sensitive to not ignore the seriousness and push for such an issue to get the 'bad guy' out of the way or connect with the 'disturbing emotions' and feel validated in our lives?"

I also read your previous post, and I agree completely. There is a shared responsibility between the audience and the creators for good content. What I appreciate about this particular narrative is that it has been woven almost entirely without melodrama. The events that have led Ishwari to this desperate state have very clearly been shown as an internal conflict, rather than a simplistic cause and effect. And what you said about validation is so right; this forum might be predominantly younger people who see the story through Dev and Sona's perspective, but that is not the entire target audience. If they are looking to teach through Ishwari, then the audience first has to find validation in her pain before they can open up to the possibilities that come after it; otherwise a work of fiction comes off as preachy. I will be the last one to deny that the CVs have taken on an enormous task here. So far, they have done justice, but how they handle the resolution can make or break everything, and that is what remains to be seen...

@Divine-Pearl: Thanks for the response!

@Sharicafan: Awesome! It's great to hear from a professional on this issue. I too thought that the promo indicated an attempt driven by panic in the moment' it didn't look like she had thought about this before. Everything you have described fits Ishwari to a tee, and I really do hope they go for both individual and family therapy! That would be the responsible thing to show as a result of the suicide attempt.

I am not trying to curb anyone's right to express their opinion on the forum, but just encouraging a little thoughtfulness. We may think that things we say are inconsequential, but that isn't always the case.

@gemini: I am also really enjoying the amazing discussion on this thread! I love shows that bring out such wonderful writers and analysts on the forum... especially ones who were previously silent readers! 😉

@amaypranay: Absolutely, Ishwari takes this desperate step in a moment of panic, rather than as a well-thought out action.

@ash_devnarshi: Thanks!

@JazzyM: From what I understand, a lot of suicide attempts are two-fold. They are an indirect expression of helplessness and a cry for help because the person feels like there is no other way out. That doesn't mean that they are doing it purely for the attention, though.

@ARCH21 and LiveLife321: The response to your amazing "hijacking" deserved a separate post on its own. Please don't disappear!!! I absolutely loved reading through your discussion and I have to confess, based on the trajectory of the show so far, have a fairly optimistic view of how the writers are going to deal with the upcoming track.

The very fact that they have put Ishwari's insecurities and the drastic step of a suicide attempt at the front-end of the main story gives me hope. This is clearly the lowest low of the story from where the characters all have to rise and learn. The reason I feel somewhat confident about this is because Dev and Ishwari's relationship, even when it has been at its best, has faced harsh criticism from within the universe of the show, thanks to Neha's presence. When Ishwari seemed most gentle, balanced, and wise and Dev most responsible and devoted to his family, Neha was still there to call out their hypocrisy. In that sense, this show has done an excellent job of not glorifying Dev and Ishwari's relationship, and stressing that its so-called perfection is merely superficial.

Now that Sona has entered the equation, the facade they work so hard to maintain is cracking and everything they suppressed to keep it alive is slowly coming to the fore. Ishwari's sense of this change is the root of her panic, but Dev is completely oblivious to it. On the one hand she is disappointed and annoyed that Dev doesn't sense the threat to their mutually constructed "ideal relationship", on the other, she doesn't want to betray the image Dev has of her, and indeed that she has of herself, as a perfectly selfless being. So she is doing everything in her power to look good in Dev's eyes, while taking her disappointment out on an unwitting Sona who has no way of knowing how deep these issues run.

And I actually appreciate the skepticism that has arisen for the Dev-Sona pairing at this point in the story. Dev is behaving like a right arse, and not at all like the sort of man who deserves a Dr. Sonakshi Bose! It's so beyond question to him that she should bend over backwards to please his mother that he doesn't even stop to think how much he is demanding. I love the balance they are bringing between Sona's lovelorn efforts to please and her family's emotional anchoring. What Sona is going through is not uncommon when one's in love; it's easy to get so carried away in ensuring that person stays in your life, that you lose little bits of yourself, especially when that person is not making the same level of sacrifices for you. But I just adore the Bose family because they don't judge or malign her when she loses her sense of self, but are constantly reminding her of who she is, where she comes from, and how she deserves to be treated.

In the end, all three protagonists have to learn to appreciate what they have always taken for granted. Ishwari takes Dev for granted, Dev takes Sona for granted, and Sona takes her family for granted. This incident and the subsequent separation will be a huge wake up call to all of them, as to who really has their best interests at heart.

P.S. Reverse-hijacking: I just finished binging KY2 a few weeks ago! Instant fan 😃

I am speechless with the level of writing here. I wish I could write half as good.

Originally posted by: gemini54

I am speechless with the level of writing here. I wish I could write half as good.

@ Sam what you wrote below sums everything I am feeling right now. Btw what exactly is ky2?

And I actually appreciate the skepticism that has arisen for the Dev-Sona pairing at this point in the story. Dev is behaving like a right arse, and not at all like the sort of man who deserves a Dr. Sonakshi Bose! It's so beyond question to him that she should bend over backwards to please his mother that he doesn't even stop to think how much he is demanding. I love the balance they are bringing between Sona's lovelorn efforts to please and her family's emotional anchoring. What Sona is going through is not uncommon when one's in love; it's easy to get so carried away in ensuring that person stays in your life, that you lose little bits of yourself, especially when that person is not making the same level of sacrifices for you. But I just adore the Bose family because they don't judge or malign her when she loses her sense of self, but are constantly reminding her of who she is, where she comes from, and how she deserves to be treated.

Standing ovation to all you prolific writers..I am of the opinion that the person who can write so clearly are great thinkers too👏

Originally posted by: Samanalyse

Can I just say, WOW! Some truly amazing discussions have happened on this thread since I last took a look and it's simply amazing to see all the different points of view! It's a bit intimidating to try and respond to each post individually, so all my responses below:

@Amuuty: Completely agree. This show is really driving home the message that no human is god and to place them in such a position is to put incredible pressure on their shoulders. Dev and Ishwari have done it to each other for so long, and we are seeing the negative effects of that so clearly on both of them.

@LiveLife321: Yes, the halwa incident was a perfect encapsulation of how all three of them are making mistakes and feeding into each other's doubts, insecurities and in Dev's case, oblivion. Sona had a nice idea, but she charged ahead without any idea about the history or sentiment wrapped up in that besan ka halwa, and the level to which Ishwari is capable of subtle manipulation. Man, that woman is a mastermind!

@desigirl1987: Thanks! As I mentioned before, I am not saying we have to agree with everything Ishwari does, just maybe give a little consideration to the way we phrase our feelings towards her at this stage of the story.

@dsr11: Well, once she attempts suicide, I don't think there's any escaping from the fact that she has a problem. But I do see what you mean. Ishwari is a very stubborn women; she had to have a major health mishap even to start allowing Sona to tell her what to eat and what not to. I hope this incident will act as the instigator for her to start listening to professionals about her mental health as well. The thing about Dev's and her codependence is that it has been their lifeline for so long that neither of them can even imagine living any other way. We can see how it is unhealthy from an outside perspective, but the challenge lies in how they come to that realisation and begin a healing process.

@Vimal.M: I think all of us are terrified that any moment the show will take a turn and Sona will turn into your "Mahanta ki murti, tyaag ki devi!" So far they have managed to strike quite a good balance, clearly showing Sona is losing herself a bit in love as a negative thing. Thankfully, she os constantly being anchored in her values by her family on the other side, which gives her strength to fight back against the subterfuge and passive aggression she faces from Ishwari and now even Dev. Had they not had the break-up lined up, I think this show would have gone the typical route but now at least Dev's eyes will be opened to his life without Sona, and his mother's role in that development. Hopefully that will be the first step to seeing her humanity.

@AnnzSageflower7: What an insightful response; I absolutely loved reading it! There is no doubt that the harsh life Ishwari was exposed to, that too with four young children dependent on her, has left lasting scars that she doesn't want to acknowledge, and for which society gives her no vocabulary. The ramifications on her physical well-being have been long apparent since they are the reason Sona came to work for the Dixits, and slowly they have built up how her mental and emotional wounds are no less raw. Huh, I never thought about the way Ishwari sees Sona, perhaps as someone superior to herself since she is mature and educated. If that's the case, it's no wonder that she is clinging to cooking, and feels so threatened by Sona learning how to do it just like her. And in all her good intention, Sona did come on a bit too strong with the halwa incident. She could have kept Dev's preference aside for this purpose and learned how to make sooji halwa as Ishwari suggested, if she really felt compelled to do anything at all. I'm with you that the ideal would be for her to back off entirely for now!

@Itelidevara: Thanks for reading and understanding my point of view!

@cool_wonder: Absolutely, RR is not helping anything by constantly voicing and reifying Ishwari's fears. I too am looking forward to how they handle Ishwari's recovery and evolution!

@JazzyM: Even in western culture, though it's better than in India, there is still a lot of taboo around seeking help for mental health issues. In that light, I am glad this show has built up Ishwari's mental trauma quite well. To be honest, I haven't seen a good representation of therapy on Indian TV yet, but I really hope they use this opportunity to show that. I know it's disheartening to read about the break-up, but Dev needs a jhatka like that to really break him out of his oblivion right now.

@ARCH21: Bang on! You captured discomfort that prompted this post so sharply and accurately, especially in these lines:

"Irrespective of how evil she is shown in any episode, I wouldn't wish this step on the worst enemy."

"When the viewers love a show, can we be discerning & sensitive to not ignorethe seriousness andpush for such an issue to get the 'bad guy' out of the way or connect with the 'disturbing emotions' and feel validated in our lives?"

I also read your previous post, and I agree completely. There is a shared responsibility between the audience and the creators for good content. What I appreciate about this particular narrative is that it has been woven almost entirely without melodrama. The events that have led Ishwari to this desperate state have very clearly been shown as an internal conflict, rather than a simplistic cause and effect. And what you said about validation is so right; this forum might be predominantly younger people who see the story through Dev and Sona's perspective, but that is not the entire target audience. If they are looking to teach through Ishwari, then the audience first has to find validation in her pain before they can open up to the possibilities that come after it; otherwise a work of fiction comes off as preachy. I will be the last one to deny that the CVs have taken on an enormous task here. So far, they have done justice, but how they handle the resolution can make or break everything, and that is what remains to be seen...

@Divine-Pearl: Thanks for the response!

@Sharicafan: Awesome! It's great to hear from a professional on this issue. I too thought that the promo indicated an attempt driven by panic in the moment' it didn't look like she had thought about this before. Everything you have described fits Ishwari to a tee, and I really do hope they go for both individual and family therapy! That would be the responsible thing to show as a result of the suicide attempt.

I am not trying to curb anyone's right to express their opinion on the forum, but just encouraging a little thoughtfulness. We may think that things we say are inconsequential, but that isn't always the case.

@gemini: I am also really enjoying the amazing discussion on this thread! I love shows that bring out such wonderful writers and analysts on the forum... especially ones who were previously silent readers!😉

@amaypranay: Absolutely, Ishwari takes this desperate step in a moment of panic, rather than as a well-thought out action.

@ash_devnarshi: Thanks!

@JazzyM: From what I understand, a lot of suicide attempts are two-fold. They are an indirect expression of helplessness and a cry for help because the person feels like there is no other way out. That doesn't mean that they are doing it purely for the attention, though.

It's commendable how you have responded to everyone on this thread! Very thoughtful!

And as you did respond separately to us hijackers 😃, I will most definitely respond. It's too late right now but I will add in my thoughts to your points tomm...
This is a fantastic forum with talented & insightful Writers and I think that also shows that when you (show producers) make quality content, you draw quality audience. But then you also should be ready to rise & meet higher challenges & deliver consistently. Smart audience needs you to be smarter!
So while the makers have dared to touch on a sensitive topic, execution, resolution, redemption & growth will (like you rightly say) make or break this show...

Respect your POV. But Friday's episode have not left any chances to sympathize with her. And its human tendency to react. I disagree that her only problem is she thinks she is a bad mother who can't be happy in her son's happiness. If so she would not have been so rude and insensitive to Sona. When Sona went to talk to her she could have clearly stated that she needs some time. In fact she should have made it clear to Dev. But the problem here is lack of communication. She needs therapy. Also the daughters know her level of possessiveness so these girls could have communicated with Dev on this issue. Again lack of communication as the mother failed to create that bonding between the brother and sisters. She never let's anyone enter her and Dev's territory.
More than not being happy for Dev, its her obsession to not let anyone enter their territory as she indirectly hinted to Sona yesterday. I think its the fault of the makers to show her insecurities/obsession in a dark light rather than a positive one.