NOVEL~*Hiding behind a Stranger*~ Thread 3- CHAPTERS 5 & 6

First Previous

Page

127

Next Last

Frequent Posters

karkuzhali

@karkuzhali

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#1161

She was concerned about 'other peedith istrees' in the beginning allright but she agreed to dance on the street daily, on condition that 'those istrees' and other people are released and sent back..That was not the reason for her not going with MM. She wanted him to fulfil her sabatham, she had made before. She knew that the Pallava King will avenge his enemy, but she wanted to have the satisfaction that it had happened only because of her..

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A
Sivakami is a lot like our Jodha Begum. Self righteous. I-am-always-right kind. Practical and political buddhu. She refuses to come with Mamallan from Vataapi because she is equally concerned about the other 'peedith istrees' too. And her pride is everything that matters. The difference is that it stems from her art instead of from her ancestry.

Quote

Sandhya.A

@Sandhya.A

Sparkler

Posted: 9 years ago

#1162

Aunty,

I wouldn't be so harsh on her. She could have left with MM and then coaxed/forced him to take revenge. He was but a marshmallow in her hands after all then. But she specifically states that she wants the release of other women as well. At this point it was more a question of MM's pride than her own.

Even Sita had refused to leave with Hanuman.

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

karkuzhali

@karkuzhali

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#1163

Shyamala,

I am very poor at arguments. I will just state my opinion. That is all. I first read Sivakamiyin Sabatham when I was just 12 or 13. At that time I could enjoy only the romance between Sivakami and Maamallar. Even now I remember how I used to skip those portions that were about the political strategy, Mahendravarmar was adopting. A few years later I read it and I was able to understand the significance of the various situations. Then I used to admire Kalki's presentation of the characters and the formatting of the structure of his novel. He showed a time gap between successive parts which added to the even flow of the novel. And I started to enjoy the dialogues .

I have read the novel so many times,that I remember almost all the dialogues.

About the comments about Sivakami , it is true what you said about her.

But contrary to your wish, Naganandhi would not have allowed Pulikesi to execute her. Because, Naganadhi loved Sivakami's art and eventually herself. Kalki has beautifully described the circumstances that made Naganandi fall for her.

But Mahendravarmar's relationship with Aayanar was like that between an artist and a connosseur. He was given the title "Chithirakkara Puli"( Master of Arts?) and he himself was an artist. On one occasion he says, "In order to learn about the secret of the Ajanta paintings, I even went to the extent of thinking to have a friendly relationship with Pulikesi..because I am told that he spent his younger days in the caves with his brothers.." Such was his craze about arts. His attachment with the charioteer is like the attachment of the car owners with the drivers! Similar relationship is seen between King Parthiban and his oarsman Ponnan in the novel Parthiban Kanavu. The king even entrusts his secret documents to him.

This correspondence has aroused in me the desire to read the novel once again!

Saraswathi akka.

Quote

karkuzhali

@karkuzhali

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#1164

Sandya,

There is difference between the two. If Sita had accompanied Hanuman, would it not have brought shame on Rama? She tells him "Won't the people say that Rama is so inefficient and coward that he sent a messenger to retrieve his wife?" She says that she will wait till he comes . But here MM himself comes and meets her. You say that she could have left with him and then coaxed/forced him to take revenge. In what capacity? In Kanchi, the King was in death bed and MM was to ascend the throne any moment. Why should he need a prompting to wage a war against his enemy to take revenge? And he had given his concurrence to marry Pandyan princess to increase their military strength.What would be Sivakami's position in Kanchi?

Saraswathi aunty.

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A
Aunty,
I wouldn't be so harsh on her. She could have left with MM and then coaxed/forced him to take revenge. He was but a marshmallow in her hands after all then. But she specifically states that she wants the release of other women as well. At this point it was more a question of MM's pride than her own.

Even Sita had refused to leave with Hanuman.

Quote

Sandhya.A

@Sandhya.A

Sparkler

Posted: 9 years ago

#1165

Originally posted by: karkuzhali
Sandya,
There is difference between the two. If Sita had accompanied Hanuman, would it not have brought shame on Rama? She tells him "Won't the people say that Rama is so inefficient and coward that he sent a messenger to retrieve his wife?" She says that she will wait till he comes . But here MM himself comes and meets her.

MM comes in person, but opts to take her back stealthily. Would that appease the wounded pride of all those abducted women? It would be a blotch on his fame too.

Even if Rama had come to Lanka and take away Seetha stealthily I am sure she would have refused too.

Quote

sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

#1166

No, my pet, you have got confused, and Saraswathi Akka as well.

All the peedith single (without their newly wedded husbands or very young children) istrees have been released and sent home much earlier, as soon as Sivakami agrees (to the Bhikshu Naganandi masquerading as the Emperor Pulikesi) that in return for their release, she will go voluntarily to Vatapi.

She refuses to come with Mamallan not because she wants the other women/ other prisoners to be freed as well - I have just been re-reading that chapter and there is NO such demand from her side.
So there is so question of the pride of the other imprisoned women or Mamallan's either.

Sivakami refuses to go with Mamallan because she is so furious at having been asked to dance in the public squares so that the remaining Pallava prisoners are not whipped. She wants a bloody revenge with Vatapi going up in flames, and right then. She is not willing to wait for as long as Mamallan knows that will take. She says that she does not want love and marriage, but only revenge.

In fact, when he pleads that it cannot be done without due preparations which would take time, she mocks him, saying that she never knew it would be so difficult for the Pallava prince to take Vatapi, and had she known it, she would never have made the sabatham. Then she mocks him and Paranjothi for wanting to leave in haste because they were, as she puts it, afraid of a saffron clad bhikshu and a bunch of kapalikas.

He in turn is shocked and angry seeing her settled so comfortably with a palace of her own. So there is a first class falling out between them and Mamallan , after trying very hard to persuade her to come and promising that he will fulfil her sabatham, throws up his hands in angry disgust and leaves, since Naganandi is approaching the house, and Mamallan has come into Vatapi secretly, with no troops.

It is not just her pride, it is her ego, and her behaviour is obnoxious. If I were Mamallan, I would have still sacked Vatapi, but not for her. This is not love, even distorted love. It is pure and simple arrogance.

But yes, Sivakami has a lot of Jodha Begum in her, or really vice versa, for otherwise, it would be s like calling Kalidasa the Shakespeare of India!

Incidentally, another strong contender for the Jodha Begum Clone Stakes in Sita in Siya ke Ram. Not only has she assembled a solid female fan club right there in Lanka - Mandodari, Sulochana and Trijata - but she also delivers a daily bhashan, on one of a whole variety of topics, either to one of these or to Raavan. If he had any sense, he would have packed her off pronto, and spared himself these homilies. But the poor sap keeps coming back for more!😉

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A
Sivakami is a lot like our Jodha Begum. Self righteous. I-am-always-right kind. Practical and political buddhu. She refuses to come with Mamallan from Vataapi because she is equally concerned about the other 'peedith istrees' too. And her pride is everything that matters. The difference is that it stems from her art instead of from her ancestry.

Edited by sashashyam - 9 years ago

Quote

Sandhya.A

@Sandhya.A

Sparkler

Posted: 9 years ago

#1167

Originally posted by: sashashyam

She refuses to come with Mamallan not because she wants the other women/ other prisoners to be freed as well - I have just been re-reading that chapter and there is NO such demand from her side.
So there is so question of the pride of the other imprisoned women or Mamallan's either.

Oh! Okay! It's been quite sometime since I read the book and having suffered from JB syndrome for morethan 2 years, i got confused!

But yes, Sivakami has a lot of Jodha Begum in her, or really vice versa, for otherwise, it would be s like calling Kalidasa the Shakespeare of India!

Incidentally, another strong contender for the Jodha Begum Clone Stakes in Sita in Siya ke Ram. Not only has she assembled a solid female fan club right there in Lanka - Mandodari, Sulochana and Trijata - but she also delivers a daily bhashan, on one of a whole variety of topics, either to one of these or to Raavan. If he had any sense, he would have packed her off pronto, and spared himself these homilies. But the poor sap keeps coming back for more!😉

Shyamala Aunty

I stopped seeing the odd episodes too when i saw her lecture on istree dharm in Ayodhya when she insists on accompanying Ram to the forest. Doesn't Urmila have her istree dharm too? Her arguments were mere gloss as though she was the lone istree in the world.

Ashish Sharma as Ram was good, that is when Sita was not around. Looks like Ram is spared for now. It is Lanka's turn to suffer. At this rate, Raavan himself will cut off his 9 heads unable to bear her bhaashans. Ram will only need to take care of the remaining one.🤣

Quote

IshqHaiWoEhsaas

@IshqHaiWoEhsaas

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

#1168

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

Raavan himself will cut off his 9 heads unable to bear her bhaashans. Ram will only need to take care of the remaining one.🤣

🤣

Quote

sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

#1169

I agree completely with you about the Rama-Sita part, Akka.

But as for Sivakami, and her (non-existent) stature in Kanchi had she returned with Mamallan, one has to remember that she does not know about the agreed alliance with the Pandyan princess when she refuses to go back. She must still be thinking that she will become his pattamahishi (chief queen).

So this angle does not enter into the argument at all. It is all pure ego. Kalki has added a para about Sivakami's last disastrous comment mocking Mamallan and Paranjyothi for being afraid of a saffron-clad monk and a bunch of kapalikas. Unfortunately, he attributes her idiocy to women in general, on the lines of penn buddhi pin buddhi ( that women see the light only after having mucked up everything), as if this failing was exclusively an attribute of women!😡

It is another matter that had she returned, she might have ended as Mahendravarman's queen, though how he could have compelled her to marry him is not clear. And then of course, in short order, a royal widow. God alone saved poor Narasimhavarman!😉

Shyamala

Originally posted by: karkuzhali
Sandya,
There is difference between the two. If Sita had accompanied Hanuman, would it not have brought shame on Rama? She tells him "Won't the people say that Rama is so inefficient and coward that he sent a messenger to retrieve his wife?" She says that she will wait till he comes . But here MM himself comes and meets her. You say that she could have left with him and then coaxed/forced him to take revenge. In what capacity? In Kanchi, the King was in death bed and MM was to ascend the throne any moment. Why should he need a prompting to wage a war against his enemy to take revenge? And he had given his concurrence to marry Pandyan princess to increase their military strength.What would be Sivakami's position in Kanchi?

Saraswathi aunty.

Quote

karkuzhali

@karkuzhali

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#1170

Shyamala,

I know that she did not know about the agreed alliance . I have only replied to Sandya's argument that she would have gone with him and then coaxed/forced him to take revenge.

When Mahendravarmar tells NV that he was to marry Sivakami if she had come back , he didn't think whether she would agree to that or not; he wanted to save NV and incidentally the throne..

In fact, I imagined a similar situation in our Jodha Akbar, where Akbar vehemently opposes Salim-Anarkali relationship. I thought that Akbar could marry her and put a full stop to his son's affair.

In the film, "Moonru Mudichu" by K. Balachandar, The girl ( Sridevi),whose lover(Kamal Hassan) is killed by the villain(Rajnikanth), she marries Rajanikanth's father and becomes his stepmother in order to avoid becoming his wife.

Saraswathi Akka.

Originally posted by: sashashyam
I agree completely with you about the Rama-Sita part, Akka.

But as for Sivakami, and her (non-existent) stature in Kanchi had she returned with Mamallan, one has to remember that she does not know about the agreed alliance with the Pandyan princess when she refuses to go back. She must still be thinking that she will become his pattamahishi (chief queen).

So this angle does not enter into the argument at all. It is all pure ego. Kalki has added a para about Sivakami's last disastrous comment mocking Mamallan and Paranjyothi for being afraid of a saffron-clad monk and a bunch of kapalikas. Unfortunately, he attributes her idiocy to women in general, on the lines of penn buddhi pin buddhi ( that women see the light only after having mucked up everything), as if this failing was exclusively an attribute of women!😡

It is another matter that had she returned, she might have ended as Mahendravarman's queen, though how he could have compelled her to marry him is not clear. And then of course, in short order, a royal widow. God alone saved poor Narasimhavarman!😉

Shyamala