Jodha Akbar 69-72a: Tangled emotions - Page 3

Originally posted by: karkuzhali

Dear Shyamala,

A very thought provoking analysis of the episodes. Like Rajanikanth's quote, "Late-aa vandalum, latest-aa varuven" , your post , though was delayed by a day, is full of explanations and examinations of situations taking into a/c latest developments.

I have added my comments in red.

Saraswathi.

Thank you! You are more than welcome, Akka!

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala

HI AUNTY

THANKS FOR YOUR LOVELY WISHES. I TOO WISH YOU GOOD HEALTH, PEACE AND HAPPINESS AND HOPE THAT THE ALMIGHTY KEEPS YOU HALE AND HEARTY!! LOTS OF GOOD WISHES TO ALL MY FORUM FRIENDS.

I AGREE WITH DONJAS, AUNTY, THAT THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE BEST POSTS FROM YOU. AFTER HAVING READ IT TWICE, I AM CONVINCED THAT IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERFECT.

THERE IS NOT A SINGL SCENE, LOOK, DIALOGUE OR EXPRESSION THAT YOU HAVE OMITTED TO COMMENT ON AND ANALYSE. AND, I AGREE TO EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN.

VERY LITTLE TO ADD -

JODHA'S INABILITY TO FEEL JALAL'S PAIN WHEN HE FINDS OUT ABOUT MAHAM, MAKES ME APPRECIATE SALIMA'S WOODEN EXPRESSIONS IN HER SCENE WITH JALAL. BEING A SINGLE LOOK ACTRESS SHE WAS ABLE TO PORTRAY, WITH COMVICTION, THAT SHE UNDERSTOOD THE EXTENT OF THE DISAPPOINTMENT AND HURT THAT JALAL FELT

MAHAM AND HER TWIN WERE COMPLETELY OTT. THE SCENE ITSELF WAS POORLY COMCIEVED AND SHOT

BHARMAL PRATAP ENCOUNTER MADE ME WONDER WHY PRATAP KEEPS FLINGING THE DESH DROHI CARD AT THE AMERIS AT LARGE. WHY DOESNT HE JUST LAUNCH AN ATTACK ON AMER INSTEAD?? THIS, AGAIN, WAS A BADLY SHOT SCENE

JALAL'S OFFER OF KHULA TO JODHA, IN MY OPINION, WAS A MASTERSTROKE. HIS APOLOGY WAS GENUINE AND HEARTFELT AND, TO ME, IT SEEMED LIKE HE WAS BASICALLY TELLING JODHA TO FORGIVE AND FORGET AND START AFRESH. I FEEL THAT THE TALALQ WASNT REALLY AN OPTION. HE JUST WANTED HER TO WIPE THEIR SLATE CLEAN AND MOVE ON

LIKE YOU SAID, PERFECTLY, HE WAS OFFERING HER A FREEDOM FROM THE CAGE IN WHICH SHE HAD I,PRISONED HERSELF. VERY BEAUTIFULLY DONE SCENE. AND JALAL WAS JUST BRILLIANT - THE SMIRK, DEEP THROATED LAUGH, AND HIS SUPERB DIALOGUES - WALLAH!

JODHA TOO WAS GOOD IN THIS SCENE. COMFUSED TO BEGIN WITH, AND ALMOST DEVASTATED TOWARDS THE END WHEN SHE SAYS SHAHENSHAH TO HAMARE SAATH PHIR KHEL KHEL GAYE. I LOVED THIS DIALOGUE. IT GAVE A SENSE OF HER BEING CORNERED, DESPITE THE HEARTFELT APOLOGY. NOW IT IS SHE WHO WILL HAVE TO MAKE THE CHOICE BETWEEN BEING A PARTITYAGITA, OR A BEGUM. QUITE A SIMPLE CHOICE, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY. BUT THEN...

YOUR DIALGUES FOR JODHA'S REBUTTAL WERE BANG ON AND THE LETTER ON BEHALF OF JODHA'S YELLOW JODA WAS HILARIOUS :)

SORRY FOR NOT REPLYING TO YOUR LAST POST. ITS BECAUSE I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO WATCH THOSE EPISODES YET. SAW THESE FIRST AND HENCE REPLIED TO THIS POST EARLIER

THATS IT FROM ME

TAKE CARE

Originally posted by: AnnaPaquinFan

Absolutely beautiful and apt and witty description n analysis of the episodes.

The opening note wishing dewali was really heart warming.

May the heavenly light find us, may the heavenly light guide us.

Happy dipavali auntie, with lots of love and best wishes, may you keep in pink health and don the throne of your pakhis and be among us always. 🤗

Originally posted by: alffim

Dear Shyamala Di!
My computer broke down. So very briefly, I write with my daughter's computer.
It was very delightful! For me the episodes with the "set free", have always been unclear. I agree and I really like your point of opinion that Jalal was really hoping that does Jodha "gift" - the freedom. And, at the same time, he is am hoping that she would surrender.
Only here, it seems to me that while Jalal himself doesn't understood (you very rightly wrote and I fully agree) that options "honorable capitulation" Jodha hasn't. Then, in the character of Jodha: I think she wouldn't begin to be traded, and would have gone on a truly loving relationship without affectedness. If Jalal was...
I'm really looking forward to your next analisis Meena Bazaar and Jalal's requirements don't talk about leaving.
Once again - thank you! Great fun to understand and see in a new way!
and also very amazing 👏 👏 👏

A major letdown: The old Jodha would have stood up to Jalal and informed him, when he was giving her what Tripti had, in 2013, so cleverly labelled The Illusion of Choice:

Thanks but no thanks. I am not going to add to my parents' woes by landing up at their gates like a bad penny. I am a Rajput woman, and I would have you know that when you married me of your own free will, you landed yourself with me as a wife not only for this janam, but for all the next six as well.

I do hope that I will get an improved model in our next birth, but for now, I will make do with what I have.

And so should you. As far as I am concerned, what you see if what you get. I will obey all your reasonable aadesh, to keep my marriage vows, "reasonable" to be decided by me.

Don't you try to act magnanimous with all this talk of khula and bandh! There is no "khula" for either of us as far as this marriage is concerned. It is all firmly "bandh", and the sooner you realise this the better!

So thank you for your unprecedented condescension in actually saying you are sorry for your atrocious behaviour of the past two weeks; I can understand how close your stiff spine must have come to breaking in the process.

But now I need my beauty sleep, and so I would be obliged if you could spare me the continued honour of your presence.

End of scene.

Originally posted by: adiana12

Gr8 analysis Shyamala. Unfortunately my laptop charger has conked off and will need to wait till my new charger arrives from Amazon to use my laptop. Using phone is difficult and Diwali time is not conducive to go to Nehru Place to buy the charger. Hopefully will be able to give my 2-bit next week😛

Originally posted by: karkuzhali

Dear Ashwinee,

A very different perception.

I agree with your comments about Lehki-Maham combined conspiracy.

I have given my comments below,

Saraswathi Aunty.

Originally posted by: Donjas

First of all happy Diwali to all the readers of this forum. May this festive occasion bring great happiness to you and your family.

I stick with my claim that this is one of your best posts ever. This post is all about interpretation and nobody decodes human behaviors and motivations better than you do.

So, here goes-

1 The logic of instutional loyalty totally agrees with me. Jodha was defending the king, not the man. But still, Jalal saw for the first time that Jodha stood on his side of the fence for whatever reason and that counts a lot for him. He never forgets good things done for him. This is absolutely true, and it is one of his most endearing traits.

2 Thank god that Jalal thought of the solution and not somebody else. That 'eyes bit' was inspired and showed that when his anger is under control, Jalal's brain works fine, at least for a few months more. Now that is a mischievous comment, and true, alas!

3 That MP segment was obviously to give that actor some work. Anyway, some history here, there was no major battle after Haldighat because Mughal forces were decisively superior in open battle but they were wary of fighting a guerella war so they ceded ground. This time also coincided with increasing problems for Akbar in the North West provinces and he shifted capital to Lahore for this reason. I never realised, till I watched Siyaasat for a while, that towards the end of his reign, Akbar had shifted his capital from Agra to Lahore.

But to get an idea of how inferior native forces were in battle, I suggest you watch the TTC Lecture series, Decisive battles of world history. Both Prithviraj Chauhan-Ghori battle of Tarain, and Akbar-Hemu battle of Panipat are covered in detail. The tactics that Prithviraj used against Ghori were so simplistic, it reminds you of the Gulf war tactics of Iraqi army against the Americans. Sad thing is, MP used the same 'frontal charge' battle tactics in the battle of Haldighati with the same disastrous results. I shall do this without fail. It should be very interesting. But how did Prithviraj Chauhan win his first encounter with Mohammad Ghori in 1191?

4 You covered the Jalal Rajim scene in detail. I really liked the whole analysis of how Jalal won the trust and cooperation of the little boy.

5 The Jalal Jodha talaaq scene was fantastic and your interpretation of it was just as good. Every aspect from Jalal's arrival, the nok jhok, the bombshell of talaaq and then that significant parting message of Jalal, all of it you dissected in such exquisite detail that it was a pleasure to read.

My view of the situation is that often an ultimatum clears the mind. Just like you feel more alive than ever after having faced death. This talaaq step was critical in the JA relationship because things had gone really bad between them. I agree with you about an ultimatum clearing the air. But I feel that the real game changer was the absolutely spot on lecture that Jalal gives Jodha after rescuing her from the lake. There, for the first time ever, Jodha is shown exactly what she looks like to an outsider. Not that it makes her more civil to Jalal, in fact the opposite. During the journey to Ajmer, her behaviour is atrocious. Probably because she is furious at having been forced on to the back foot!

Originally posted by: Coolpree

Dearest Shyamala,

A very very Happy Diwali to you and your family as well as all the readers of your thread. On this day I pray that goddess Laxmi grant you one thing and one thing alone...Good health! All the peace and fulfillment will follow after that.

This was a really excellent analysis 👏 👏. The Jalal I love is slowly emerging from all the mess he created for himself and for Jodha post Ruqaiya miscarriage. I can't wait for your take on Jodha's attempted suicide and the iconic horse ride that followed. Jalal's grand confrontation where he clearly shows her the mirror was a sight to behold.

Your analysis of Jodha in "where is our Jodha" and " major let down" was spot on! This is a harbinger of things to come down the road unfortunately😭.

As this show proceeded, Jodha showed fire and grit at all the wrong times whether it was the sujamal fiasco or the horrid todarmal issue. Most of the other times she was shown weepy or plain stupid where all and sundry walked over her and made a fool of her .. like during the twins death as well as during Salim's childhood 😡.

Originally posted by: Ash67

Dear Shyamala aunty,

Thank you for your very kind greetings! Wish you a very happy Diwali too.

Aunty, this is an absolutely brilliant and lovely piece of writing, but then your writing always is. Loved it.

Doppelganger drama -

I agree that the whole thing was OTT but had not thought that it was Lakhi with Adham khan. I had actually thought that it was Maham all through acting as her own double. The reason was that I did not feel that Lakhi would be so devious and capable as to fool Maham's own son and also that Maham would not/could not trust Lakhi enough to take her place and keep up the act or to execute the plan flawlessly on her own. But then the question would be how Maham managed the switch at the right times. So to me it was Maham fooling Jalal all the time by acting as her own double till the DEK showdown where initially it is Lakhi pretending to be Maham. This belief was strengthened as Lakhi does not say a word in DEK till her outburst in her own language and that is after Maham arrives. Of course, as you say the whole thing is so implausible that it would work either way.

I think you have something here. It would have been far cleverer of Maham not to have risked letting Lakhi loose on Jalal except right at the end, and much safer too, for she could have been tripped up by some odd question or comment.

The other thing that Jalal swallows without trying to analyse it is how Lakhi, clearly a rustic Rajasthani, got to know so much about Maham and her relationships with the other palace inmates as to be able to pass herself off as Maham. And the linked question of how come Maham did not run into her double in all this time, and where on earth Lakhi had hidden herself when she was not out pretending to be Maham. It was all a mess!

Jalal was brilliant in the scene with Rahim and Rajat in all these episodes. The character and the portrayal are so layered, complex and interesting that Jodha's indifference to and lack of awareness of the fact are utterly unconvincing.

I had loved your analysis of the Jalal Jodha encounter the first time and have loved reading this version as much. It was one of the best scenes of JA in terms of script, direction and acting. One of the few times when Jodha is and is portrayed as layered as Jalal.

I loved this scene back in 2013 too, and I loved it now. I have used chunks of the old post on this episode here. and fleshed it out, just as I did with the one for Episode 31, The Emperor strikes back, which ended up, at 6 pages for a single episode, twice as long as the 2013 one!

I have often felt that this Jodha keeps pushing Jalal to the limit as she somewhere wanted Jalal to lose control and take the matter of the boundaries in their relationship out of her hands. That way, the point would have been settled once and for all without further psychological disadvantage to her as then she could have happily held on to her image of him and would have been off the pins that she feels every time he is in the vicinity. Her acute awareness of him and the (unacknowledged even to herself) attraction/ pull/desire that she feels for him is constantly on her mind and gets projected onto him - Could that be the explanation for her several and very unfair accusations to that effect in spite of Jalal keeping his word and distance whenever they are alone together?

My dear Ashwinee, you have hit the nail on the head here. I have written in the past expressing puzzlement at Jodha's obsession with the physical side of marriage, but I did not take this to its logical conclusion. You have done it here. This is the only explanation for Jodha's cheap, crass behaviour with Jalal while on the road to Ajmer - discussing their sleeping arrangements and abusing her husband to a strange daasi, not even Moti - and especially during the sequence with the snake.

She is accusing Jalal all the time of stree ke liye laalasa (as if Jalal had any shortage of willing strees, and as if Jodha was Venus incarnate!) because that is what she feels, without realising it, for Jalal. I wish they had had psychiatrists in Agra those days; they would have written whole tomes about Jodha Begum!😉

On a lighter note, loved what your Jodha would have said in response to the 'illusion of choice' offered to her. That would have had Jalal in a fix. It would have exasperated him so much that he would have lost control or stunned him so much that he would probably have forgotten the 'dil nahi manata' part and stared at her transfixed. Whatever his response, the effect would have been the same - as you had once said earlier - a very shortened serial! 😉 And what a blessing that would have been!

That is all for today! Looking forward to the next one.

Have a lovely festive time. Thank you, and the same to you, my dear. Take care

Warmest Regards

Ashwinee