Jodha Akbar 69-72a: Tangled emotions - Page 2

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Donjas thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#11
Post updated on Page-1. Have a look. Thanks.
Ash67 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#12
Dear Shyamala aunty,
Thank you for your very kind greetings! Wish you a very happy Diwali too.

Aunty, this is an absolutely brilliant and lovely piece of writing, but then your writing always is. Loved it.

Doppelganger drama -
I agree that the whole thing was OTT but had not thought that it was Lakhi with Adham khan. I had actually thought that it was Maham all through acting as her own double. The reason was that I did not feel that Lakhi would be so devious and capable as to fool Maham's own son and also that Maham would not/could not trust Lakhi enough to take her place and keep up the act or to execute the plan flawlessly on her own. But then the question would be how Maham managed the switch at the right times. So to me it was Maham fooling Jalal all the time by acting as her own double till the DEK showdown where initially it is Lakhi pretending to be Maham. This belief was strengthened as Lakhi does not say a word in DEK till her outburst in her own language and that is after Maham arrives. Of course, as you say the whole thing is so implausible that it would work either way.

Jalal was brilliant in the scene with Rahim and Rajat in all these episodes. The character and the portrayal are so layered, complex and interesting that Jodha's indifference to and lack of awareness of the fact are utterly unconvincing.

I had loved your analysis of the Jalal Jodha encounter the first time and have loved reading this version as much. It was one of the best scenes of JA in terms of script, direction and acting. One of the few times when Jodha is and is portrayed as layered as Jalal.

I have often felt that this Jodha keeps pushing Jalal to the limit as she somewhere wanted Jalal to lose control and take the matter of the boundaries in their relationship out of her hands. That way, the point would have been settled once and for all without further psychological disadvantage to her as then she could have happily held on to her image of him and would have been off the pins that she feels every time he is in the vicinity. Her acute awareness of him and the (unacknowledged even to herself) attraction/ pull/desire that she feels for him is constantly on her mind and gets projected onto him - Could that be the explanation for her several and very unfair accusations to that effect in spite of Jalal keeping his word and distance whenever they are alone together?


On a lighter note, loved what your Jodha would have said in response to the 'illusion of choice' offered to her. That would have had Jalal in a fix. It would have exasperated him so much that he would have lost control or stunned him so much that he would probably have forgotten the 'dil nahi manata' part and stared at her transfixed. Whatever his response, the effect would have been the same - as you had once said earlier - a very shortened serial! 😉


That is all for today! Looking forward to the next one.

Have a lovely festive time.


Warmest Regards
Ashwinee


Sandhya.A thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Folks,

First things first. Let me wish all of you, my gentle readers (this is only a traditional appellation; I am sure most of you are far from gentle!😉) a joyous, colourful, noisy and altogether fun Deepavali. May the lights of this, the most delightful of our festivals, illuminate the year ahead, and bring you the best of health, fulfillment, and peace of mind!


Wish you the same aunty. 🤗Hope the coming days bring you good health and happiness. Btw aren't we all really genteel?😳

Wish all others too a very happy Deepavali.🤗


By the beginning of the Saturday night episode ( I have covered it only up the end of the Diwan-e-Khas scene; I will include the rest, including the super-stormy Jalal-Jodha encounter 2, in my next), it was clear that not even Jalal's public and unreserved apology to all the Ameris was enough to lift Jodha's mood. On the contrary, she seemed more miserable than she had probably ever been before, and all because Jalal had offered her a way out of the marriage she had repeatedly proclaimed to be a millstone round her neck. And it is this misery that led to her lachrymose and incomprehensible outburst in the latter part of the episode, which left Jalal first bewildered and finally furious. But of that next Thursday.

She was super confused. Jodha herself was unsure of her marriage or what it meant to her. She was used to lamenting on her misfortune and blaming Jalal that she was now miserable that she can do it no longer. Whatever the decision it would be hers and only hers. Either ways she had lost. If she opts out of the marriage then the choice of being an abandoned wife would be hers. She couldn't blame him for deserting her. If she opts to stay tgen the choice of being his begum would also be hers. She couldn't blame him for having forced her to.


Ambe Mata to the rescue: Jodha, her Rahim missile having backfired, is now at her wits' end how to proceed, for she never even considered abandoning her campaign to open Jalal's eyes to the perfidy of his beloved Badiammi. Kanha having apparently earned a day off after some heavy duty listening over the past week😉, it was left to Ambe Mata to do the honours this time. And she did it in style.


🤣 And it is this style of yours that makes your posts special.


(a) provided an excellent, entirely plausible, and very favourable build up for Jodha Begum in the eyes or, to be precise, the ears of her patidev, who was till now convinced (almost exclusively by her, of course) that she hated him unconditionally and thought only of pulling him down at every opportunity. Yet there she was, dressing down a group of idle townsfolk in no uncertain terms for maligning the Shahenshah who, she pointed out to them , was their protector and father figure. She then hauled them over the coals for gossiping about the affairs of her parivaar which, she made it clear, were niji, and thus not open for public comment. The CVs further

(b) supplemented this with a very revealing comment to the aforesaid patidev, at the end of that very charming little exchange between the fake fakir and his real queen: Na to ek Shahenshah ki bhiksha maagna shobha deta hai, aur na hi ek patni ko shoba deta hai ki uske pati ko phailate dekhe! No wonder that as she went her way, the fakir's mouth twisted in a curious and entirely pleased half smile.

I simply loved Jodha in this scene in 2013. She put her patidev in place without bhaashaning or being rude and snobbish. She looked queenly, behaved in a queenly fashion, and spoke like a queen which rarely happened later in the serial.

Institutional loyalty: Overall, I would say that it was more a question of propriety vis a vis her present parivaar and royal pride in Jodha than of loyalty to her husband per se, though the impact on Jalal would have been the same as if she had gone into battle to defend him personally! Nor it is specifically a Rajput trait, for I am sure Ruqaiya would have defended the Shahenshah as well, but not even a tenth as effectively. She would have had the whole lot clapped up in jail, and only stoked resentment among the Hindu subjects of the Mughal sultanate.

To revert, Jodha's defence of the Shahenshah is for the institution, not for the man.There is a distinction there. That is why she does not defend him on the charge that he is kroor. She cannot in all honesty do that, for she feels the same, and she will not lie for him. But she forbids any criticism of him in his capacity as the Shahenshah, in a blanket fashion, on the grounds that they are hispraja and it is no more for them to criticise him that it would be for a son to criticise his father.

It is its way just as authoritarian a pronouncement as any Ruqaiya would have made - and she too would not have defended him so much out of possessiveness , but out of the shared pride in her Timuri nasl. It is the same, in a slightly different way, with Jodha. It is the attitude peculiar to royalty, and she has the same pride in her being royal, and her husband as well. As for the interpretation that she felt it was part of her wifely duties, I do not share it. In fact, Jodha Begum has a very selective approach to the subject!😉

😆

Even if her defense was of the institution it was so dearly presented that Jalal had to be impressed. Had it been Ruqaiya or any other begum they would have punished the chaps for disrespect for the Shahenshah. But this sort of affectionate reference as the father of the nation was new to Jalal. Especially coming from a wife who declares to hate him. Jalal would have met many who would praise him on the face and speak ill of him, personally and as a king, behind him. But Jodha was different. Though she professed to hate Mughals and Jalal in particular, here she was defending his image as a king. Seeing a woman who defended the institution without seeking any benefit or attempting to impress was novel for Jalal.


Incidentally, no one in those days, Hindu or Muslim, would have dared to criticise the Emperor so harshly and loudly in the middle of the bazaar. It was a far fetched gimmick, though the scene was charming and of course it served a definite purpose.

Natakiya Roopantars.


That he decides to go to the dibbi maker rather than summon him to the palace, and possibly put his life in jeopardy, shows Jalal's innate consideration for the man's safety.

👏

To revert, it worked for him and for us. Besides the long awaited solution, we were treated to the spectacle of Jalal masquerading as a pirbaba/fakir. Admittedly, despite the best he could do in terms of a quavering voice, plus assorted pleas to the public seeking alms for a gareeb, laachar, bhuka Allah ka banda, he could not help looking like the rusht pusht, khaata peeta individual that he really is. Any more than he could suddenly sport a 6 pack just because he had to do a hamaam scene!😉

🤣

But allowing for all this, it was great fun watching him, especially as he dived for cover when Jodha started moving his way. Earlier, as he spotted her scolding some other devotees of Ambe Mata at the temple for not keeping the premises clean, he must have said to himself: Phir se Jodha Begum?!? Yeh aurat mera peecha hi nahin chodti! Allah ka shukr hai ki hum is poshak me hain, nahin to yakeenan Badiammi ke baare mein phir se shuru ho jaati!😉

🤣


When the artist calls out to him that it is finished, he hesitates visibly, and looks away; he is afraid of what he might see.

RT was superb here.


In the final frame, Jalal is striding into the harem. The gut wrenching confrontation with Maham Anga that he has prepared hmself for still lies ahead. Also the trauma of a lifetime of trust shattered in an instant. For one who has had so few he could trust, the loss of this one will be shattering, and the wounds will run deep.

👏👏


Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di


Lost data fully first time. So posting in parts.
Edited by Sandhya.A - 9 years ago
karkuzhali thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago
#14
Dear Ashwinee,
A very different perception.
I agree with your comments about Lehki-Maham combined conspiracy.
I have given my comments below,

Saraswathi Aunty.


Originally posted by: Ash67

Dear Shyamala aunty,

Thank you for your very kind greetings! Wish you a very happy Diwali too.

Aunty, this is an absolutely brilliant and lovely piece of writing, but then your writing always is. Loved it.

Doppelganger drama -
I agree that the whole thing was OTT but had not thought that it was Lakhi with Adham khan. I had actually thought that it was Maham all through acting as her own double. The reason was that I did not feel that Lakhi would be so devious and capable as to fool Maham's own son and also that Maham would not/could not trust Lakhi enough to take her place and keep up the act or to execute the plan flawlessly on her own. But then the question would be how Maham managed the switch at the right times. So to me it was Maham fooling Jalal all the time by acting as her own double till the DEK showdown where initially it is Lakhi pretending to be Maham. This belief was strengthened as Lakhi does not say a word in DEK till her outburst in her own language and that is after Maham arrives. Of course, as you say the whole thing is so implausible that it would work either way.

I vote for this.

Jalal was brilliant in the scene with Rahim and Rajat in all these episodes. The character and the portrayal are so layered, complex and interesting that Jodha's indifference to and lack of awareness of the fact are utterly unconvincing.

I had loved your analysis of the Jalal Jodha encounter the first time and have loved reading this version as much. It was one of the best scenes of JA in terms of script, direction and acting. One of the few times when Jodha is and is portrayed as layered as Jalal.

I have often felt that this Jodha keeps pushing Jalal to the limit as she somewhere wanted Jalal to lose control and take the matter of the boundaries in their relationship out of her hands. That way, the point would have been settled once and for all without further psychological disadvantage to her as then she could have happily held on to her image of him and would have been off the pins that she feels every time he is in the vicinity. Her acute awareness of him and the (unacknowledged even to herself) attraction/ pull/desire that she feels for him is constantly on her mind and gets projected onto him - Could that be the explanation for her several and very unfair accusations to that effect in spite of Jalal keeping his word and distance whenever they are alone together?

Though Jodha always wanted to put forth her arguments,whenever she had a chance, the choice offered by Jalal was like a bombshell to her, which made her dumbstruck. She did not expect this from a husband who took the trouble of conceding all her demands to get married to her. She was slowly getting attracted towards him, knowingly or unknowingly, --because, she had a few opportunities to understand his admiration over her talents like her sword fight, the love for the unborn child expressed in her poem etc.
I also feel that Jalal also knows about this, and which is why he takes the initiative of approaching her with the options, guessing already what she would choose.

On a lighter note, loved what your Jodha would have said in response to the 'illusion of choice' offered to her. That would have had Jalal in a fix. It would have exasperated him so much that he would have lost control or stunned him so much that he would probably have forgotten the 'dil nahi manata' part and stared at her transfixed. Whatever his response, the effect would have been the same - as you had once said earlier - a very shortened serial! 😉


That is all for today! Looking forward to the next one.

Have a lovely festive time.


Warmest Regards
Ashwinee


Shah67 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#15
What a wonderful Diwali treat this post is Aunty! Thanks! Busy with Diwali so can't post a long reply but I have to say one thing:
I know Jodha irritates the heck out of you many times but the way you describe her and the relationship she has with Jalal is so cute(cannot think of another word ) that I end up liking her even more.

And of course the way you have explained Jalal, his emotions and his handling of people is just👏 .
This guy has a very high EQ, he has the ability to perceive, control, evaluate, and express emotions.
Is it any wonder that he was so successful? I always feel that more than anything else it is a person's ability to relate to other people that makes someone truly a good Ruler, CEO or Boss, balanced of course with a practical and at times stern approach.

A very Happy Diwali to all!

Devki

PS: I know this is very predictable of me but I do think Jodha was justified in her crying when Jalal offered her the two options.😉
Edited by devkidmd - 9 years ago
adiana12 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#16
Btw Shyamala, Jalal is not offering Jodha any options I think. My reading is that Jalal is giving her the way out for staying on as his Begum - and using it's privileges to the hilt, as you say - without feeling jhijak by giving her this allowance to call it Hobson's choice. He knows she won't go back as he understands the Rajput customs better than he lets on to her. This is his way of giving her back her dignity even as she can continue with her ghrina rant and save face with all others - he tells Jodha not to tell anyone but himself tells Ruqs and Maham of his options given to her - these are the only two with who Jodha needs to keep up the pretense and he doesn't want this to reach HB who would be at his case immediately and he would then perhaps have to admit that he was making it possible for Jodha to stay without having to face Ruqs and Maham's tanas and thus leading to all kinds of speculations from all directions at a time when he himself is not ready to look deeper.

Jodha with her limited imagination and inability to see from other povs definitely is incapable of comprehending any of this. She has no idea that she has been given a way out to stay on without having to face barbs on self respect and with her pride in tact - she is definitely the epitome of 'penn budhi pin budhi' and that is why I am so very put off by her.
Edited by adiana12 - 9 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#17
Devki my sweet,

Sometimes it is nice to be predictable!

Anyhow, I am very glad you liked this post. I simply loved that do raaste scene, it is one of the very best in the whole series in all ways. And Rajat was simply superb. It is such a pleasure to watch a very skilled artist get his teeth into a really well scripted scene.

Take care, and have a lot of fun this evening, but stay safe with the firecrackers!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: devkidmd

What a wonderful Diwali treat this post is Aunty! Thanks! Busy with Diwali so can't post a long reply but I have to say one thing:

I know Jodha irritates the heck out of you many times but the way you describe her and the relationship she has with Jalal is so cute(cannot think of another word ) that I end up liking her even more.

And of course the way you have explained Jalal, his emotions and his handling of people is just👏 .
This guy has a very high EQ, he has the ability to perceive, control, evaluate, and express emotions.
Is it any wonder that he was so successful? I always feel that more than anything else it is a person's ability to relate to other people that makes someone truly a good Ruler, CEO or Boss, balanced of course with a practical and at times stern approach.

A very Happy Diwali to all!

Devki

PS: I know this is very predictable of me but I do think Jodha was justified in her crying when Jalal offered her the two options.😉

sashashyam thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 9 years ago
#18
But Adiana, how can you say that he is giving her the way out for staying on as his begum while keeping up her ghrina rants? Methinks the whole hara rang business was to make it clear to her that he would insist on some measure of normalcy, even if he did not claim his conjugal rights.

He is also prepared to let her go if that is what she wants, though he hopes it will not come to that.

And as for Rajput customs, in this serial they seem to be very flexible! Just look at Jodha parading all over the common bazaar without any veil! And Jodha does not seem to have any firm idea that her parents will not take her back at all, even though she knows that this will bring disgrace on them.

And unless I am wrong, Jalal does not tell Ruqaiya of the options he has offered Jodha. He only tells her that Jodha is going back to Amer. And he does not tell Maham anything at all, so when Maham tells Javeda Jodha is going back to Amer, I was startled and could not understand how she had found this out. Maybe she learnt it from Ruqaiya, but this was not shown.

He tells Jodha not to tell anyone partly because he does not want Hamida haranguing him, and partly because he anticipates that Bharmal might refuse to take Jodha back, and he does not want her to face the taunt from the other haremites that she is unwanted both by the Shahenshah and by her parents. The latter is really very thoughtful of him, seeing how rude the woman is to him all the time.

But I agree completely with you about your last para. And I too feel badly let down by Jodha all the time precisely because she is a woman and one feels extra bad when a woman behaves stupidly! A As for the penn buddhi pin buddhi, just wait till they are on the road to Amer! I really waded into her in 2013 for her abysmal behaviour then.

Shyamala

Originally posted by: adiana12

Btw Shyamala, Jalal is not offering Jodha any options I think. My reading is that Jalal is giving her the way out for staying on as his Begum - and using it's privileges to the hilt, as you say - without feeling jhijak by giving her this allowance to call it Hobson's choice. He knows she won't go back as he understands the Rajput customs better than he lets on to her. This is his way of giving her back her dignity even as she can continue with her ghrina rant and save face with all others - he tells Jodha not to tell anyone but himself tells Ruqs and Maham of his options given to her - these are the only two with who Jodha needs to keep up the pretense and he doesn't want this to reach HB who would be at his case immediately and he would then perhaps have to admit that he was making it possible for Jodha to stay without having to face Ruqs and Maham's tanas and thus leading to all kinds of speculations from all directions at a time when he himself is not ready to look deeper.

Jodha with her limited imagination and inability to see from other povs definitely is incapable of comprehending any of this. She has no idea that she has been given a way out to stay on without having to face barbs on self respect and with her pride in tact - she is definitely the epitome of 'penn budhi pin budhi' and that is why I am so very put off by her.

sashashyam thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 9 years ago
#19
Thank you so very much! I am delighted to have a new reader, that too one who really relishes my style, which is not for everyone. I hope you will join us on my future threads as well.

Shyamala B. Cowsik

Originally posted by: sunram

What a wonderful and insightful analysis worth reading again and again👏

sashashyam thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 9 years ago
#20
Sandhya my poppet,

It is always a pleasure to hear from you. As usual, my additional comments are in blue.

Affectionately,

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A


Lost data fully first time. So posting in parts.

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