Jodha Akbar 55-57: A raging storm - Page 6

Originally posted by: KanJmaskis

hello shyamala dear ...once again a marvellous analysis btw how is ur health now ?...hope u had overcome of the unbearable pain...

About the update ...As ur tittle the episodes were full of anger and accusations witnessing the rough and tough but hurt ja whose joy dismissed as much early as it celebrated ... So agree with ur heading premature rejoice

Agree ...his bit pause in adaab towards jo in jashn was a pleasing ... following with notlike expressions of ruk... i think from here there silent adaab talks were also started ...was not it ? ...with rahim he was fully wholeheartedly enjoying and sharing his happiness Rt was flawlessly performed it within ja who is relishing his Would be father pleasure that excites him more seeing a child ( rahim) infront him and exactly he performed in the opposite situation when his most loving dream shattered that time also he was flawless ...perfectly made felt the to the viewer's by his acting what would a father at ja place may feel as i said before that not only angry bt his crying or emotional shots r also worth to watch ...agree with u maham was the second person after Rajat to performe the best in this trauma and i want to tell that last year when i was watching the episodes i had doubt on her bt after seeing this sight and her explanation to resham that "ha hum rukaiya begum ko muz banate ni dekhna chahte the bt ja hamare bete hai hum unki aulad ko marne ke bar me soch bhi ni sakte " bla...bla that doubt also admonished ... What a double face character maham was ...played by ashwiniee ... And she was also asked her to show only genuine care so that viewers can not get the gist of culprit ...

It was rather the slightly earlier, fleeting shot of Jalal's face as he stands outside Ruqaiya's rooms, having been expelled from them by Maham Anga in anticipation of the arrival of the Khwaja. It shows, for the first time ever, fear. A fear that he does not try to hide as a sign of weakness, for he is beyond any such petty considerations. A naked fear that desperately seeks reassurance, and negation, from his Badiammi's eyes.

When it dawns on him that this is not forthcoming, that something has gone very badly wrong, the fear dissolves into despair, and the taut, tense face crumples into sudden, gut-wrenching grief and tears.

It was an incredibly nuanced performance from so young an actor, who could hardly have drawn on his own experiences for such scenes, but would have had to fall back on his imagination.

Much agree wid u & Hats of to ur deep observation & wonderful explanation 👏

Jodha: Given no opportunity to speak, Jodha can only stare at Jalal's furious visage thru her veil. Even if she had been allowed to speak, what could she have said except that she is not guilty? This apart, she seems blank and shell shocked, and there are no nuances of any kind in her expression.

she has not even imagine that the things could be soo

A sense of betrayal: This is possible, but for me, the real reason lies elsewhere. The most important, to my mind, is the element of personal betrayal, as he has now come to see it, by a woman he had grown to respect, admire, and care for. Jodha.

The line between love and hate is a very narrow one, and Jalal has now tipped the other way. What does Othello do to Desdemona, and on what evidence? Nothing stronger than this one; was it not? In fact it is much weaker. So it is with men and women alike when they as if possessed. If Othello could be so frenzied with jealousy on the basis of such thin evidence when it concerned a beloved wife, how much more of insensate rage can Jalal feet at what he sees as a vile crime triggered by a woman's hatred of him - a factor which has been stated out loud to him time and again - and on the basis of much stronger evidence? ...

I had also a qouestion y bt the same thought u described above i got my answer of y bt not thought of this much deep ...u explained it very ..."the reason why " too

And ur explanations about jalalI and jalal II also a phenomenal one i liked it soo much ...

Waiting fr next ...

Take care..

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

It was not that Ruqaiya had a miscarriage and Jalal pounced on Jodha and her brothers without reason out of the blue ONLY based on Jodha's hatred for him.

The poison was right in front of them in the gift given by the accused. It was that poison that killed the baby. The accused had a motive too. Agreed the kesar was tested on arrival. But the poison is only said to induce slight dizziness in adults and hence could have escaped detection. What was to be deciphered or suspected? CCTV Camera footage of Jodha and her brothers mixing poison? The above evidences warrant arrest even in today's judicial system.

As for the roasting alive punishment, it was nothing unusual for the century. Capital punishments were the order of the day. Abdul too was dragged along the streets and given the death penalty for merely having some Mughal coins. Was he given a hearing or atleast 10 days tafteesh time ? He was spared the death sentence on technical grounds of being handicapped.

On what grounds did Jodha herself force Jalal to put Todarmal in front of the canon? Being seen to hold Shehnaaz' dupatta for a few seconds?

What was Sita's fault to be exiled to the forest in her pregnancy? Mere comments of a washerman?

The spot punishment for treason was the death penalty. They couldn't afford to maintain terrorists in jails for years and years and hue raised for punishing them finally.

There was no Supreme Court, 24 High Courts and hundreds of district Courts and thousands of Judges and Lakhs of Lawyers to dispense of Justice then, that investigations could be carried on and on for ages. Decisions had to be made by ONE single man mostly. They were based on certain moral rules and laws. They could also go wrong if evidences were against the accused.

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

It was not that Ruqaiya had a miscarriage and Jalal pounced on Jodha and her brothers without reason out of the blue ONLY based on Jodha's hatred for him.

The poison was right in front of them in the gift given by the accused. It was that poison that killed the baby. The accused had a motive too. Agreed the kesar was tested on arrival. But the poison is only said to induce slight dizziness in adults and hence could have escaped detection. What was to be deciphered or suspected? CCTV Camera footage of Jodha and her brothers mixing poison? The above evidences warrant arrest even in today's judicial system.

As for the roasting alive punishment, it was nothing unusual for the century. Capital punishments were the order of the day. Abdul too was dragged along the streets and given the death penalty for merely having some Mughal coins. Was he given a hearing or atleast 10 days tafteesh time ? He was spared the death sentence on technical grounds of being handicapped.

On what grounds did Jodha herself force Jalal to put Todarmal in front of the canon? Being seen to hold Shehnaaz' dupatta for a few seconds?

What was Sita's fault to be exiled to the forest in her pregnancy? Mere comments of a washerman?

The spot punishment for treason was the death penalty. They couldn't afford to maintain terrorists in jails for years and years and hue raised for punishing them finally.

There was no Supreme Court, 24 High Courts and hundreds of district Courts and thousands of Judges and Lakhs of Lawyers to dispense of Justice then, that investigations could be carried on and on for ages. Decisions had to be made by ONE single man mostly. They were based on certain moral rules and laws. They could also go wrong if evidences were against the accused.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Preeti,

I was going to join issue with you over this very predictable comment of yours, but Sandhya has done it better than I could have. Her Sita and the washerman example is a classic, and that was the Maryada Purushottam. And his wife was expecting at that time.

More pertinently, and more even than l'affaire Abdul in Amer, I would like to see what your comment will be on the Todar Mal episode, when apni Jodha Begum railroaded an innocent man to the cannon's mouth. Did she feel anything was amiss and that more tafteesh should be done? Not on your life! She was like a virago, the way she hounded the poor man in the DEK, and Jalal let her.

It was a far worse disgrace for the wonderful 16th century justice system that you laud than this dature ka ark affair. Why was Jodha correct then why is Jalal to be condemned now? And Jodha did not even have the excuse of having lost her baby then!

The fact of the matter is that anywhere in the world at that time, the accused would have been sentenced on this evidence and executed pronto.Even today, as I wrote to Donjas, if someone plants a murder weapon, a revolver with one bullet fired, in your briefcase, and you pick it up, as is only natural, you will surely be under arrest. What happens afterwards in another matter, but there is no shortage, anywhere in the world, of wrongful convictions for murder.

All this talk of sau gunehgaar choot jaye is just so much hot air. I doubt if it was ever taken seriously. And as for Chanakya and his vishkanyas, I feel strongly that he wrote all that to look good, but I am sure what he practiced was good old realpolitik, and the more cynical the better. Then again, how would he decide who was innocent in a case like this one? All the fulminations here are because we know Jodha is innocent. But what if Jodha was a Maham? Jalal does not know now that she is not one.

Jalal has lost it now, true, but at least he is talking of the need for saboot, and I can understand where he is coming from. It was unbearable grief mixed with the Jalal ka sar chickens coming home to roost, plus the conviction that his softening towards her was a piece of criminal folly on his part.

But with Jodha in the Todar Mal case, it was the sheer arrogance of mahaanta and the "I can never be wrong" complex. It is another matter that after her half hearted apology of sorts, Todar Mal and wife fell all over themselves praising her. I wished he had been blown up!😉

Shyamala

Originally posted by: devkidmd

Sandhya,

I don't think anyone is saying that Jalal is wrong in suspecting Jodha and her family. What is being said is that instead of huffing and puffing and breathing fire and giving this wham bam judgement he should have at least had a trial however farcical it may have been. At least a chance for the defendant to state their case. Even Henry VIII gave Anne Boleyn a chance at trial even though he was totally done with her, and she had multiple "witnesses" against her.

Why did Jalal not think like HB did?
>>Because, he knows more of Jodha's hatred for him than HB.
Why did Atgha and the Kazi have to tell him to have a trial. Come on. Yes this is the 16th century and he had all the power to do whatever he wanted but here he was too quick in meting out punishment.

>>Quick? He waited one whole night.. and brought the case before court in the morning.. wonder what were Jodha and her brothers doing till then without attempting to plead their ignorance. By the way why did HB wait to put forward her points till D-E-K? She could have raised the same when Jalal comes to meet Ruquaiah.. Was that an impromptu argument she came up with?
I would say it was Jalal, the ordinary man who took over Jalal, the Emperor.

Comparing the treatment of Jodha, a royal herself and a legally wedded wife of the Emperor to the treatment of Abdul is totally off. Abdul, all said and done was a lowly servant caught snooping around in disguise in enemy territory.

As for the Jodha-Shehnaaz-TM case. That is much later. Why are we judging the present with what is to come much later in mind? I know it is difficult but can't we judge that situation when we get to it? And let me tell you, that track is the only one where even I couldn't stand Jodha.

Originally posted by: karkuzhali

Dear Shyamala,

I know Maham does not trust Adham Khan but not so with Resham. In fact it was Resham who eavesdropped Ruqaiah's conversation with Hoshiyar , and reported to MA, which was another reason for doubting MA for taking such a criminal step. Even if she is shown play acting before Adham Khan and Resham, they would have shown to us her usual cruel and guroor stare in the end as they would do normally.

According to me MA's feeling was genuine, when she rules out Jodha's involvement in this.

So it seems to me that the director did not originally plan to make MA the culprit, but changed it later.

>> I had the same feeling watching this episode and later the one where Maham is revealed. Maham looked very genuine here.. too sincere to think of her as suspect.

As regards Shariffudin's probable involvement, my remarks were with reference to your comment about him that, "...especially a warrior like Shariffuddin who has no link to medicine and the pharmacoepia, to know about an aborifacient, for that is what it was, did not sound likely-It pointed to a woman familiar with pregnancies and childbirth..." . If he could manipulate Jodha's fake pregnancy later with medicines purely attributable to women, this would also have been planned and executed by him. You see MA mentioning this to Adham Khan about the availability of this poisonous herb in the place where Shariffuddin was the Subedar.

Probably the director's original plan was to make Shariffuddin the culprit.

Saraswathi

QUOTE=sashashyam]My dear Akka,

Thanks a lot for liking this one.

The solitary confinement with no visitors makes the matter of the Amer lot trying to prove their innocence a total farce. Jalal intends it to be so, for by then he is so far gone that he seems almost sadistic.

Maham does not trust even Resham on this one, and definitely not her son. So she playacts in front of them too. In fact she playacts with Adham almost till the end of the Lakhi drama.

As for Sharifuddin, he planned that Jodha fake pregnancy thing with plenty of time. Here, he could not have had any idea that the Ameris were going to bring kesar, and after he got to know that, there was no time for him to locate and add such a specialised drug. He could hardly have been carrying it around in his kamarbandh, you know!😉

Shyamala

QUOTE=karkuzhali]

Dear Shyamala,

A classy character- analysis of Jalal. I actually am able to feel the grief he is experiencing while I am reading your analysis. Very beautifully written.

But I have a doubt. How can an accused prove his/her innocence if he/she is kept in solitary confinement without any outside help? 😲

We all now know that Maham Anga was the culprit, but the conviction with which she analyses the situation with Adham Khan and Resham , stating that it could not be Jodha, does not seem Maham - like. All along she did all her evil doings conspiring with and aided by Resham. Or was it shown like this to mislead the viewers?

I am not convinced about the reason for your eliminating Sheriffuddin from the crime, as he himself proved of what he was capable of in 'Jodha's fake pregnancy' track later.

Thank you for your post Shyamala.

Saraswathi.

Originally posted by: hemakeerti

Originally posted by: devkidmd

Why did Jalal not think like HB did?
>>Because, he knows more of Jodha's hatred for him than HB.

**What does that have to do with thinking a little like a dispenser of justice and not like any other Tom, Dick and Harry and get so over run by your emotions that you cannot think straight? He was just not willing to even think about the logistics of how such a thing could have been pulled off. Maybe that would have still not let the Ameris off the hook but I think he should have just thought a little bit a little more calmly. But I get it. He was totally disraught and just not in a state to even consider the alternative. If you ask me, more than the kid this was all about Jodha and her hatred for him. This was his way of punishing her for that. He got his chance to get back and show her who is boss, who is really in control.

>>>There is a crime before his eyes, an evidence at hand, many reasons in the past (hatred towards husband and indifference to Mughals in general) that enforces him suspect Jodha, then how else is he supposed to think than the way he did? And why didn't he think of the logistics? Ameris arrived on the same day.. Kesar was brought by them.. Hakim confirms that Kesar doesn't effect any normal being though tasted except the preggy lady, his own Badiammi is incharge of security and she confirmed it is tested.. they why wouldn't he doubt the one who fed it and the ones who got it?

If you ask me, more than the kid this was all about Jodha and her hatred for him. This was his way of punishing her for that.

Punishing Jodha for her hatred??😆 When he didn't do it for her audacity to attack on him with dagger, when he didn't do it for spicing up his food, then why now? If he's in punishment mode with Jodha, she's highly unlikely to remain untouched till date. After all, he's husband and the Emperor.

Had it been any other crime Jodha committed than this, I don't think he'd have so severely reacted. Its his long cherished wish of a heir that's just been butchered. Anyways.. for an Emperor who doesn't tolerate a felon stealing his shoes, for the one who shouts on his Begum for roaming around in wet clothes without waiting for her explanation, this reaction seemed very natural to me..

Why did Atgha and the Kazi have to tell him to have a trial. Come on. Yes this is the 16th century and he had all the power to do whatever he wanted but here he was too quick in meting out punishment.

>>Quick? He waited one whole night.. and brought the case before court in the morning.. wonder what were Jodha and her brothers doing till then without attempting to plead their ignorance. By the way why did HB wait to put forward her points till D-E-K? She could have raised the same when Jalal comes to meet Ruquaiah.. Was that an impromptu argument she came up with?

**Waited a whole night? Thank god for small mercies. Or maybe he should've just struck her head off right away.
>>Just a doubt? In the past 50 episodes when was Jalal shown thinking coolly and acting slow before meting out punishment. Be it the first crime (shoe stealing) where we were introduced to the demonic Jalal, or the situation of a concubine cheating on him, or the verdict in kid's case.. going by his past record, I thought he'd summon D-E-K in middle of night.. truly.. Thank God for little mercies..😆

Bringing the case to court? No, he did not bring the "case" to court. He just announced what his conclusion and decision was in court. There was no "case" here. And Jodha did plead innocence when he came to her room. Was he in any state to listen? And what is anyone supposed to do or can do in the middle of the night(especially following such a tragic incident in which they are implicated) I don't know.

>>This is what Jodha should have done.
1. Run to her brothers and tell about Jalal's allegation. Then all as a group should try talking to Jalal, he might listen or not is a secondary issue.
2. Tell everything to her protector, Ammijaan. They both should discuss on how the kesar has been spiked.
3. Not significant, but a gesture that'd have elevated her character - trying to know how Ruquaih is doing. She showed compassion by sharing Ruquaiah's happiness, but its more needed now. Not that Ruks will welcome such a gesture (of course, she didn't appreciate her previous gesture either), but then Jodha is Jodha.

I'm surprised she hasn't tried profusely voicing her innocence. Here I remember one of Jodha's previous dialogues to Jalal regarding Hamida Banu's vow on pilgrimage. "Your No lacks that strength that her vow had". Same here.. Jodha's NO lacks the strength Jalal's YES had!!

And in court were any of the Ameris given a chance to say anything?
>>When Man singh can speak, why not Ameri brothers? Jodha could break the protocol for Moti's life and barge in to D-E-Aam without permission, then why didn't she open mouth with same audacity here. What all can Jalal do then? Would he slap? NO!! Even if he try, there're Maulvi's, HB, Atgah and other elders to control him. At max, he'd threaten her to shut up. Its fine to defy him as its the only opportunity she got to save her and her brother's life. One simple question... when no one has seen me or my brothers mixing poison, I say that its spiked after handing over to Security. Can you prove me wrong? would have atleast ignited some thought in him..

Why can't HB come up with that thought right while she was listening to Jalal's decision in court? Is that so unbelievable/impossible?
>>I'm not speaking of possibilities, its about why Jalal didn't think like HB did!! it struck her then, it didn't strike Jalal ever.. that's all!! Anyways, he believed Jodha deliberately spiced up food, unlike HB who seem to have known that food was spiced up later. I still wonder how she cracked it!!

I would say it was Jalal, the ordinary man who took over Jalal, the Emperor.

Comparing the treatment of Jodha, a royal herself and a legally wedded wife of the Emperor to the treatment of Abdul is totally off. Abdul, all said and done was a lowly servant caught snooping around in disguise in enemy territory.

As for the Jodha-Shehnaaz-TM case. That is much later. Why are we judging the present with what is to come much later in mind? I know it is difficult but can't we judge that situation when we get to it? And let me tell you, that track is the only one where even I couldn't stand Jodha.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Preeti,

I had forgotten where you stood on the Todar Mal case, if ever I knew it, because I think that by then I had left this forum. But a lot of people here supported Jodha on principle, for they agreed that she could never do anything wrong. It seems Jalal too bought into that, for he let her effectively set Todar Mal up to be officially murdered, instead of shutting her up and sending her back behind the sheer curtain. That is why I wrote in bold that Jalal let her.

And no, I do not plan to stay around here till then either, or anywhere near that. If the pain in my fingers comes back in full forces as soon as my orthopaedist stops the steroid pills, which will be in 25 days, with the strength already halved and due to be halved again in 10 days - I will not be able to keep up these posts.

Here, it is different. Jalal has, by now, a clear, factual reason for believing that Jodha had done it - as I noted below, we know Jodha is innocent, but how does he know it? - and he does not even accept Ruqaiya's very pertinent reservations, based on the earlier miscarriages in the harem. And after giving in to Hamida Bano, he has dropped his initial knee-jerk decision on instant punishment, and he tells Bharmal that if it were not that some proof was necessary, he would have executed them at once. So he is waiting for some saboot, and he clearly does not intend to dispose of the case pending the unearthing of this proof. I do not see what more one can ask of him. His personal conviction that they, especially Jodha, are guilty is his own, and he has every right to hold that.

And what sort of investigation could be carried out anyway? As I noted above, the only investigation that could have been done was to check if anyone was seen tampering with the kesar in the toshakhana where all the gifts were kept. The only one who has authorised access there would have been Maham, and she would have asserted that there was no such tampering. It would have been a dead end.

Finding that man who sold the dibbi to the cloaked female was a fluke.

So what would have happened in a farcical trial? Nothing. It would have fulfilled the norms, but things would have stayed exactly where they are now. It was pure luck that Jodha was proved innocent, if not she would have been left hanging in a very unpleasant Trishanku type situation. As Poirot once said, a solution to a murder mystery is vital not so much to convict the guilty but to exonerate the innocent.

Shyamala