Why Mughal princesses did not marry Rajput Kings? - Page 5

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Deepasub thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#41
What a mind probing topic Donjas. Well done.

So agree with Prem & Devki.

Mogul Princesses were married mainly within family to avoid unwarranted conflict for the Mogul throne, as it was the most coveted one in that era.

As some have pointed out Hindu religious practice were & considered rigid for married women in that era compared to what we see currently. Married women had no option to divorce or was considered a taboo and then they were left with sati or jauhar on the death of the better-half. While Islam was deemed to provide freedom to women. They had the option to divorce n also remarry.

Further Mogul Emperors including Akbar and others did not want their daughters n sisters to be placed in marriages with lower ranked princes than their audha, again trying to avoid torture for the throne, as we have see on JA by Shareefuddin and Abumaali.
Although Rajputs and others would have married the Mogul princesses, there was the fear of family mutiny for the throne.
Poor gals had to endure loneliness amidst the life of grandeur. They hearts died void of love and feelings for a dear one and not to mention the experience of becoming a mother.

I couldn't say Rajputs threw away their princesses just to amass wealth or Jagirs. It's more to join hands, create synergies to collaborate against uproar and seek protection. We can't forget the mighty Mogul rulers were heartless warriors who loved war and were many a times ruthless even after forming an alliances. Akbar was or could be considered an exception to this as he tried to create harmony in the later years of his rule. But who can forget the likes,of Shahjahan who butchered every hand that created the Taj Mahal.

Also we can't forget that Rajput girls/ women were a bit more feisty and trained for rough roads due to the inherent rugged environment they lived in as compared to Agra where the Princesses never probably ventured outside the harem. But we can't ignore that women could have considered or is still considered as "Paraya Dhan" which I loathe to hear and read about. But...

But yes, I have heard and read that there were wars within harems be it in any kingdom to please the King and bear an heir. There were conspiracies and schemes to overthrow each other.
It must be hard for an inter religion Princess to successfully seduce her King and bear his children let alone bear the Heir. Jodha Bai or Harka Bai must have endured umpteen number of incidents/conspiracies to become MuZ. But must have received unconditional love &support from Akbar and other close family members.

Behind the rustle and bustle of silk and grandeur I'm afraid the Mogul Princesses lived a lonely, loveless lives.

Read this interesting blog on this very topic long ago. It's a good read if interested.

http://madhukidiary.com/life-of-moghul-princesses-lonely-and-yet-not-so-lonely



Originally posted by: myviewprem

Even in 21st century majority consider daughter as paraya dhan and do not teach her as much as a son(as its waste of money). Also a daughter is usually expected to help in house hold chores apart from studies or work. A son only plays or studies after school/college. And this happens in cities in posh areas. There are different yardsticks for a son and daughter even today, if son misbehaves or marries without permission etc forgiveness is easy to get as he is khul ka deepak but a daughter shall be banned for life from family circle.
I read a recent news in Dubai a father refused the life gaurd to touch his daughter hence she drowned. I have read some books on middle east etc where a father drowned his daughter in pool as she was swimming and seen by neighbours boys etc.
If you go to many villages in india even today no matter how educated you are, you cannot dare go out without a ghunghat on head or wear pants, skirts etc and go out on streets- it shall not be tolerated by both family and society. There are actually two-three society existing among our midst each with different mindsets. It will take a lot of travel to open our mind to reality, not many travel widely to know what exactly takes place in other parts of country or world. I have heard people say that if you are in Delhi and a girl return back by 6pm after that its unsafe and anything can happen, in UP its adviced not to go out at all without a male accompanying you.
If you think India and middle east is dangerous, you have to travel to US where if you go in certain areas you will be mugged for sure, walking is definetly no no, sitting in garden unsafe etc.
Today girls have been prime ministers and astronauts and business woman etc and yet attitude exists. In those days woman had only one major role give birth to heir(for king) and keep him happy. They hardly went out of house or palace and never were considered equal to men by any standards.
In mughal harem book its stated majority wives and cocubbines if sick or dead would not even have their husbands in attendance at funeral. Emperor would not even be aware which wife or cocubbine died. That is why woman were so crazy to have an heir of the emperor or prince because that guaranteed a certain surety of future that at least son or granson shall take care of you if not husband or his family. That is why woman murdered other wives kids in womb, it was survival of fittest. That is why a jodha or nur jahan or mumtaz took so much pain to please the husband. Mumtaz had 14 kids from shah jahan as she did not want him to have kids from other wives and that killed her as she was too weak to give birth at age of 39. Nur jahan learned archery and rifle shooting just to please jehangir and win over jodha(jagat gosain) who was jehangir fav wife at that time. Nur Jahan and Mumtaz were childhood friends or know to their husbands and put such effort so how much more effort an hira kunwar or jagat gosain must have put to become husband favourites.
Hira kunwari also must have done many things to please a casanova like akbar to get his attention. Otherwise why would akbar bother to get attracted to her when he has thousands of beauty vying for attention till even his 50s. And in those times husbands had upper hand they had many wives vying for one husband, not like our age one wife one husband. So wife had to try and be extra special to attract her husband by hook or crook.
So in 16th century it may be even worst. All this glossy love stories are fine, but reality may be quiet different from the fiction.

Bond_7 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#42
Prem..I'm amazed at the wide knowledge u possess wrt History 😃 Thnx a lot 😊
Now I get the diff b/w Salim's revolt and Khasrau's.
Looks the emperors and their family were not fortunate enough to live a happy family life.
MUZ,Man Bai and other women members would have suffered a lot.
These fights within the family still exist in our society whether for power or property.

So Akbar too eliminated the future threats??
I feel Akbar was more kind than Salim and Salim was better than Shah Jahan.
Bond_7 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#43
Deepa di..I loved ur views on this topic.
The lives of queens and princesses was not an easy one.
Thnx for the link..I'll read it 😊
Kalgi22 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#44
Very healthy debate guys... Thanks a lot for these information.
Thanks for the link deeps
Edited by Kalgi22 - 10 years ago
Ndi81 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#45
being a member of royal family is not quite shining as we think, we only see the partial of their life but in reality we are commoners more have free life then they do, let alone if you are prince, princess, queen or king in 16th century, in modern era even now women and men have equal right but in some country daughter still treat less important than boys, its sound cruel but that is reality.
talking bout why mughal princesses did not marry rajput kings i think like some you guys said perhaps for political reason, but to throw yourself into inter religion marriage in not easy to deal, if the rajput family welcoming you with open hand than it wont be a problem but if they dont accept you well just ready to face what the outcome, and i believe jodha/harbai bai faced a lot problem and obstacle when she married to akbar, as a hindu and minority but yet get attention from akbar i bet lots of akbar wife who will feel jealous, and like people said be careful with jealous woman, and i bet too there are lot nasty politic in harem, but yes i think its just their method of survival, harem is like jungle and only nature law apply there the strongest is the winner, once i've watched chinesse serial based on the empress dou life, bout the fight between king's queen and concubines and hell they even with cold blood kill other wife kid , it was sth like kill or be killed, so sometimes i wonder what's so good bout being princess or queen ?
myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#46

Originally posted by: ndi.anggraeni81

being a member of royal family is not quite shining as we think, we only see the partial of their life but in reality we are commoners more have free life then they do, let alone if you are prince, princess, queen or king in 16th century, in modern era even now women and men have equal right but in some country daughter still treat less important than boys, its sound cruel but that is reality.

talking bout why mughal princesses did not marry rajput kings i think like some you guys said perhaps for political reason, but to throw yourself into inter religion marriage in not easy to deal, if the rajput family welcoming you with open hand than it wont be a problem but if they dont accept you well just ready to face what the outcome, and i believe jodha/harbai bai faced a lot problem and obstacle when she married to akbar, as a hindu and minority but yet get attention from akbar i bet lots of akbar wife who will feel jealous, and like people said be careful with jealous woman, and i bet too there are lot nasty politic in harem, but yes i think its just their method of survival, harem is like jungle and only nature law apply there the strongest is the winner, once i've watched chinesse serial based on the empress dou life, bout the fight between king's queen and concubines and hell they even with cold blood kill other wife kid , it was sth like kill or be killed, so sometimes i wonder what's so good bout being princess or queen ?

I think Harka Bai or Hira Kunwari had it easy compared to other rajputh wives of Akbar
Because she was his fifth wife and first hindu wife. There were not many competitors for her. Ruqaiah and Salima were his cousins so they shall be secure that he is relative and his other two wives were not royal so they would dare not mess with a Rajputh princess(class bias was very deep than)
Secondly Harka had Man Singh and Bhagwan Das and family for company at agra
The other Rajputh wives did not have that luxury
And thirdly she is first hindu wife so shall get preferential treatment by all - its something new to them so they shall be extra nice and extra co operative to her compared to other rajputh wives of Akbar
Akbar himself would treat her with more attention than his later Rajputh wives as she is his first non muslim wife and he wants this alliance to succeed to build his empire
So Harka had much lesser issues compared to his other Rajputh/non muslim wives
Jehangir's Rajputh wives would have it even easier- because Jehangir is their cousin brother in relation apart from husband so he will not treat them bad, Harka and other Rajputh wives were related to Jehangir's rajputh wives(majority were cousins either brother or sisters daughters of Akbars wives) so no inmate dare misbehave with a Man Bai or Jagat Gosain etc. Apart from that Akbar himself in relation is their uncle first than father in law so if anyone misbehave they can complain to Harka/Akbar or Jehangir.
So in second generation this issue of harrasment may never arise in first place. Of course if the person is timid and soft hearted and is not street smart then they shall be bullied by own family only forget other wives and mother in laws that no one can do anything(Like a man bai who was not street smart enough to survive at agra fort). But majority of second generation Rajpputh wives had it very easy as their own fathers sister or mothers sister were their mother in laws. So harrasment would be almost nil at mughal harem. Of course the timid ones will suffer and not adjust in this competitive harem and wither away like a man bai. Its similar to the professional world you either perform and adjust to all the manipulation or be laid on the way side in race of life.
But i think an Harka, Man Bai or Jagat Gosaini had it easy that is why their names are remembered even today. And also once you give birth to emperors son an potential future emperor harrasment is a past thing. You get that automatic audha status in harem as a Salim's mother or Shah Jahan's mom or Khusrau mom.
Edited by myviewprem - 10 years ago
Sabdabhala thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#47
VERY USEFUL AUNTY. THANKS A TON

I HAVE READ A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS GROUP, BUT THROUGH YOUR WRITE UP I AM MUCH CLEARLER ABOUT THE ISSUE.

WHAT YOU MEAN TO SAY, THEN, IS THAT IN CASE A MEMBER OF THIS GROUP GETS AN ILLNESS THAT NEEDS BLOOD TO BE INFUSED, THEY WOULD JUST REFUSE AND CHECK ALTERNATES, OR, JUST PERISH. SOUNDS LIKE A LOT " STONE AGE" THOUGH.

AND ALSO THEIR VIEWS ARE RADICALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE CHRISTIAN BELIEF THAT IF YOU SIN, CONFESS AND DO PENANCE, AS GUIDED, THEN GOD WIPES THE SLATE CLEAN.

PERSONALLY, TOO, I WOULD THINK, THAT WITH THIS KIND OF A BACKGROUND, LIVING EVERYDAY WOULD BE QUITE STRESSFUL. BECAUSE, THE FACT THAT GOD IS THERE TO REDEEM ME OF MY MINOR TRESPASSES GOES A LONG WAY IN MAKING MY LIFE BEARABLE 😆 DONT U THINK?

AND AS YOU RIGHTLY SAY, ONLY THE MOST STRONG OF PRINCIPLES AND BELIEFS WOULD BE ABLE TO DO JUSTICE TO THIS FAITH


THANKS SO MUCH. EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE

QUOTE=sashashyam]No, Lavanya, the refusal of Jehovah's Witnesses to have any blood tranfusion is not to keep their blood racially pure,but to keep it free of sin, odd as it may sound. Rather like the Christian Scientists (of whom Tim Cruise is one) refusing all medical treatment as being against the will of God.

The following extract from an article on the subject should be interesting.

"The Jehovah's Witnesses are a group of non-conventional fundamentalist Christians who believe literally the "Word of the Lord" reported in the Gideon Bible, which is a part of the actual Catholic and Reformed Protestant Bibles. They pay great attention to the last Book, called "Revelation", and otherwise known as the "Apocalypse". In the main body of the Bible, especially the Old Testament,

There are words against the absorption of, or contact with blood, a widespread cultural thought among the Hebraic and ancient Judaic populations. This is in sharp contrast to the credence of conventional Christians, who value the salvaging power of the Holy Blood (of Jesus Christ) differently.

All blood apart from Christ's blood is considered by Jehovah's Witnesses to be a vector of sin. In contrast to conventional Christians, they do not believe in the forgiveness of sins by confession or self-conscience examination. Sinning thus irremediably compromises the eternal life (of the soul).

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that a very limited number (144,000) of believers will be saved, which is an infinitesimal proportion if one considers the number of human beings having ever existed on earth. Any compromise regarding sinning abolishes the rare chance of being saved: "What means 80 years of life on earth, i.e., in this valley of tears, compared to an eternity in paradise (as opposed to hell)?"

One has to understand that this view is deeply entrenched among Jehovah's Witnesses and they sincerely believe there is no matter of debate or compromise or otherwise there would be absolutely no chance for redemption. Unbelievers sometimes have trouble understanding what religious faith means, but Jehovah's Witnesses' faith is extremely strong.

Respect for this faith is sometimes challenged in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses because, depending on the country, their religion is either considered legal (e.g., in the USA), or a sect. Various intermediate cases exist; in France, for example, the Jehovah's Witness faith is considered a religious cult with sectarian drifting, imposing particular surveillance by the ad hoc legal establishment."

Was that useful?

Shyamala Aunty


Donjas thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#48
Try to get hold of this book. It has some very interesting anecdotes. Here is one-
There was an elephant called Ramprasad in Maharana Pratap's army. Akbar, loved this elephant, he asked for it many times, but the Maharana refused.

So it happened that after the Battle of Haldighati when the Mughal forces led by Raja Man Singh defeated Maharana Pratap, this elephant was captured. The giant beast was taken to Akbar who was delighted. Akbar gave homage to a Pir, who he believed had brought them victory in the battle. So, he renamed the Elephant PirPrasad.
Donjas thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#49
I bring this thread to life again because Ayushi wanted a look at it.
ayushimehra thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#50

Originally posted by: Donjas

I bring this thread to life again because Ayushi wanted a look at it.



Thanks Donjas typing from mobile reading this thread Soon I will try to comment.

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