Why Mughal princesses did not marry Rajput Kings? - Page 4

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myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#31

Originally posted by: Bindu_nhbr

From the views/information shared by Donjas,Prem and Shyamal aunty,I feel its difficult to state who opposed whose proposals.


If Mughals didn't want their daughters to face problems with an entirely different culture and traditions(including Sati),that's absolutely fine.In fact it shows they valued their daughters freedom and individuality more than political benefits.

As far as Rajputs' funda regarding not marrying Mughals is considered,given the orthodox values followed in that era,their fear of deviation from the religious beliefs and customs is justified to an extent.
They were okay in giving their daughters bcoz Mughals were relatively liberal in these issues and the most important thing was the political benefits.

Like Shyamala aunty said,both the parties had some reservations which ruled out the idea of Rajput kings marrying Mughal princesses.

I didn't get why Akbar decided to leave Aram unmarried!!If not to the Rajputs,she could have been married to Mughals right?

Thanks to all the three of you😃

Akbar did not want one more contender to bay for throne apart from Salim, Daniyal, Murad and Khusrau. That is why he did not marry aram, could be aram was too lovingly brought up and a father's heart did not accept her to be caught up in politics
I had read that Akbar's daughter(cannot remember khannum or shakurinssa or whoever) was not allowed to go to parents house for any ocassion or festival by husband as he wanted Akbar to make him next heir. Akbar was very sad and apparently she was illtreated by husband(and in laws) so Akbar and Salim too may not want their ladli aram bano to go through that same pain may be??? So the decision was not to add to already existing brother in law, son in laws problems and not put aram thru same pain as other daughters and sisters may be facing. I think this was reason.
THAT is why Akbar decided that daughters and sisters in future shall be married to immediate family members only.
Edited by myviewprem - 10 years ago
adiana12 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#32
I would say that the reason of keeping the blood pure may be the main reason. Many of these Rajput clans did not even accept other Rjputs who they considered inferior, then why would they consider Mughals as equals!!! And these prejudices exist even today. And such prejudices exist every where. As long as we can look at ourselves honestly and don't call one better or greater than the other we can bring improvements in society.
Edited by adiana12 - 10 years ago
myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#33

Originally posted by: sashashyam

That, my dear Bindu, was because all of Akbar's sons in law and brothers in law were, at one time or another, plotting to seize his throne. So I think - Prem correct me if I am wrong - that after Akbar, the Mughal emperors did not get their daughters married at all, to avoid such problems!

Shyamala Aunty

Hi Shyamala
No this is untrue
Mughals married their sisters and daughters in all generations
Akbar never told to not marry daughters ever again. He only wanted them to marry within close relatives so that they will not be troubled like a Bakshi Bano or his daughters
Salim's both daughters were married but to his own brothers sons Daniyal and Murad. Daniyal and Murad's sons would not trouble their own first cousin sisters now their wives for throne.
Shah Jahan's daughters could not be married as Shah Jahan killed almost all immediate male members of family just before he became emperor immediate after Jehangirs death. So there was no boy in immediate relative to marry Jahanara and Roshanara.
Auragnzeb married his daughters to his brothers sons. Again the cousin brothers treated auragngzeb daughters nicely although their fathers and siblings were killed by Aurangzeb as they are their cousin sisters first then only wives.
The same thing continued in all generations.
So Akbar never banned marriage of daughters.
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Posted: 10 years ago
#34

Originally posted by: myviewprem

Akbar did not want one more contender to bay for throne apart from Salim, Daniyal, Murad and Khusrau. That is why he did not marry aram, could be aram was too lovingly brought up and a father's heart did not accept her to be caught up in politics
I had read that Akbar's daughter(cannot remember khannum or shakurinssa or whoever) was not allowed to go to parents house for any ocassion or festival by husband as he wanted Akbar to make him next heir. Akbar was very sad and apparently she was illtreated by husband(and in laws) so Akbar and Salim too may not want their ladli aram bano to go through that same pain may be??? So the decision was not to add to already existing brother in law, son in laws problems and not put aram thru same pain as other daughters and sisters may be facing. I think this was reason.
THAT is why Akbar decided that daughters and sisters in future shall be married to immediate family members only.

Thnx a lot Prem for the explanation😊
I've read at many places that Akbar loved Aram Bano the most and he also requested Salim to take good care of her after his death.So may be he was afraid at the very thought of his daughter facing problems due to politics.
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#35
Thank you very much for correcting me, Prem. Which is what I had asked you to do, anyway!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: myviewprem


Hi Shyamala
No this is untrue
Mughals married their sisters and daughters in all generations
Akbar never told to not marry daughters ever again. He only wanted them to marry within close relatives so that they will not be troubled like a Bakshi Bano or his daughters
Salim's both daughters were married but to his own brothers sons Daniyal and Murad. Daniyal and Murad's sons would not trouble their own first cousin sisters now their wives for throne.
Shah Jahan's daughters could not be married as Shah Jahan killed almost all immediate male members of family just before he became emperor immediate after Jehangirs death. So there was no boy in immediate relative to marry Jahanara and Roshanara.
Auragnzeb married his daughters to his brothers sons. Again the cousin brothers treated auragngzeb daughters nicely although their fathers and siblings were killed by Aurangzeb as they are their cousin sisters first then only wives.
The same thing continued in all generations.
So Akbar never banned marriage of daughters.



Originally posted by: sashashyam

That, my dear Bindu, was because all of Akbar's sons in law and brothers in law were, at one time or another, plotting to seize his throne. So I think - Prem correct me if I am wrong - that after Akbar, the Mughal emperors did not get their daughters married at all, to avoid such problems!

Shyamala Aunty

myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#36

Originally posted by: Bindu_nhbr

Thanks a lot Aunty🤗,now I got it.But I feel bad for the princesses who remained unmarried just bcoz their father/brother was an Emperor.
The royal life and power has its own disadvantages too The best example is Jodha herself who was married to Jalal,for the political reasons.She being fortunate to get married to Akbar,who loves her and whom she loved later is a different issue.
When Akbar had a power hungry son like Salim😡😡,he actually shouldn't have bothered abt sons-in-law and brothers-in-law.

Pls correct me if I'm wrong.

No Bindu its a bit diff
Salim's reason for revolt was not only the throne, he was angry about not allowing to marry Nur Jahan(Meherunissa) and Daniyal being given more preference by Akbar(like emperors red tent only daniyal could put etc)
His advisors also had impt role to play in his revolt. They told him to prove himself to Akbar as a capable next heir by doing something substantial by capturing the agra khazana
Also Salim wanted the throne fast as he himself was unwell by drink addiction and wanted to be emperor as he may not live long and Akbar was living too long(58 years when Salim started his revolt)
And Salim or Khusrau or Daniyal etc would not kill other family members to get to throne like Shah Jahan or Aurangzeb It was only a fight bet contenders. The family was safe irrespective of who won.
But the brother in laws or son in laws would trouble the sister/daughter their wives both physically and mentally etc and the father or brother cannot do anything as any action will break the marriage etc. So in laws is a much more tricky situation to handle than a son revolt for Akbar.
Edited by myviewprem - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
#37
No Bindu its a bit diff
Salim's reason for revolt was not only the throne, he was angry about not allowing to marry Nur Jahan(Meherunissa) and Daniyal being given more preference by Akbar(like emperors red tent only daniyal could put etc)
His advisors also had impt role to play in his revolt. They told him to prove himself to Akbar as a capable next heir by doing something substantial by capturing the agra khazana
Also Salim wanted the throne fast as he himself was unwell by drink addiction and wanted to be emperor as he may not live long and Akbar was living too long(58 years when Salim started his revolt)
And Salim or Khusrau or Daniyal etc would not kill other family members to get to throne like Shah Jahan or Aurangzeb It was only a fight bet contenders. The family was safe irrespective of who won.
But the brother in laws or son in laws would trouble the sister/daughter their wives both physically and mentally etc and the father or brother cannot do anything as any action will break the marriage etc. So in laws is a much more tricky situation to handle than a son revolt for Akbar.

I didn't know abt the other reasons for his revolt u mentioned like denial for marriage with Nur,Daniyal being given more importance and the bad influence etc,thanx for this info.

But I've read that Salim had blinded his son Khusrau for revolting against him.Isn't this cruel??


Edited by Bindu_nhbr - 10 years ago
Shah67 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#38

A very interesting tidbit of information.

I think the refusal was mainly due to the pure blood issue.
We have this discrimination within our own religion regarding different castes and gothras and what not even today. I can only imagine how things were back then.
Mughal princesses if married to any Rajput Raja would have to be given an exalted position as a top tier wife. That would've been unacceptable to their religious and cultural sensibilities
(The Rajput wives and especially HK might've also faced a lot of antagonism in the Mughal Harem since this kind of insularity is not restricted to any one religion. But Akbar gave them importance so the others did not have a choice).
I did read that having a Muslim secondary wife was not unheard of.
However, the fact that marrying their own girls into Mughal families for peace, prosperity, jagirs and all the other perks that came with it was acceptable to many Rajputs tells us a lot about the status of a girl child. She is Paraya Dhan anyways. I don't think they gave much thought to what happened to the poor girl once she was gone. Sad...
Just my thoughts.
One thing I am very curious about is the method of refusal. What reason and explanation was given? And I wonder how Akbar felt about it.
Devki
Edited by devkidmd - 10 years ago
myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#39

Originally posted by: Bindu_nhbr

No Bindu its a bit diff
Salim's reason for revolt was not only the throne, he was angry about not allowing to marry Nur Jahan(Meherunissa) and Daniyal being given more preference by Akbar(like emperors red tent only daniyal could put etc)
His advisors also had impt role to play in his revolt. They told him to prove himself to Akbar as a capable next heir by doing something substantial by capturing the agra khazana
Also Salim wanted the throne fast as he himself was unwell by drink addiction and wanted to be emperor as he may not live long and Akbar was living too long(58 years when Salim started his revolt)
And Salim or Khusrau or Daniyal etc would not kill other family members to get to throne like Shah Jahan or Aurangzeb It was only a fight bet contenders. The family was safe irrespective of who won.
But the brother in laws or son in laws would trouble the sister/daughter their wives both physically and mentally etc and the father or brother cannot do anything as any action will break the marriage etc. So in laws is a much more tricky situation to handle than a son revolt for Akbar.


I didn't know abt the other reasons for his revolt u mentioned like denial for marriage with Nur,Daniyal being given more importance and the bad influence etc,thanx for this info.

But I've read that Salim had blinded his son Khusrau for revolting against him.Isn't this cruel??


From what i read in various books and articles here is a summary of why Jehangir did what he did
Yes he did, he copied Humayun's punishment for his brother
As a father what he did was wrong but as an emperor it was justified. For one son love you cannot risk entire empire and life of all your family members.
Khusrau was repeatedly forgiven for the revolts and yet he revolted again- a state cannot be in constant civil war for long because that will give outside enemies chance to attack empire.
Also Khusrau tried getting Salim killed just before Akbar died and then also plotted to kill Jehangir once Akbar died.
And you must remember Jehangir had to think of his other kids(boys) whose safety would be a threat had khusrau succeded in killing Jehangir. You must remember Jehangir's kids were not big small at that time Parvez was 15 years Shah Jahan 13 years his 2 daughters were hardly 15 years etc so if he died they may be killed too immediately. In those times usually if someone became emperor they eliminated the future threats(that is brothers and nephews- Akbar did it, Humayun did it, Shah Jahan and Aurangzeb did it, even hindu kings would do it).
So may be he thought he cannot repeat the mistake Humayun did by forgiving his brothers repeatedly. He could not risk it as he was new to the kingship and already the empire was in civil war for years. Powerful nobels supported Khusrau like man singh, aziz koka, khan e khana rahim etc. Any day the asssaination attempt could succed and after that there is no gaurantee his other sons would be left alive neither his nephews i.e. Murad and daniyal's sons. The court indeed wanted him to kill Khusrau and end the uncertanity once and for all but he did not do that.
Salim revolted against Akbar but never tried to kill him, he never waged war against Akbar again and again etc the court was not divided between Akbar and Salim like in Salim and Khusrau fight for throne. Salim's revolt was more juvenile. Murad and Daniyal too refused to obey Akbar's orders at various times and did what they wanted. These were all juvenile attempts by sons against a too powerful father under whom they felt their individuality stifled.
As a father yes he was completely wrong but as a King and as father of other kids he could not afford this constant civil war and threat to life.
myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#40

Originally posted by: devkidmd

A very interesting tidbit of information.

I think the refusal was mainly due to the pure blood issue.
We have this discrimination within our own religion regarding different castes and gothras and what not even today. I can only imagine how things were back then.
Mughal princesses if married to any Rajput Raja would have to be given an exalted position as a top tier wife. That would've been unacceptable to their religious and cultural sensibilities
(The Rajput wives and especially HK might've also faced a lot of antagonism in the Mughal Harem since this kind of insularity is not restricted to any one religion. But Akbar gave them importance so the others did not have a choice).
I did read that having a Muslim secondary wife was not unheard of.
However, the fact that marrying their own girls into Mughal families for peace, prosperity, jagirs and all the other perks that came with it was acceptable to many Rajputs tells us a lot about the status of a girl child. She is Paraya Dhan anyways. I don't think they gave much thought to what happened to the poor girl once she was gone. Sad...
Just my thoughts.
One thing I am very curious about is the method of refusal. What reason and explanation was given? And I wonder how Akbar felt about it.
Devki

Even in 21st century majority consider daughter as paraya dhan and do not teach her as much as a son(as its waste of money). Also a daughter is usually expected to help in house hold chores apart from studies or work. A son only plays or studies after school/college. And this happens in cities in posh areas. There are different yardsticks for a son and daughter even today, if son misbehaves or marries without permission etc forgiveness is easy to get as he is khul ka deepak but a daughter shall be banned for life from family circle.
I read a recent news in Dubai a father refused the life gaurd to touch his daughter hence she drowned. I have read some books on middle east etc where a father drowned his daughter in pool as she was swimming and seen by neighbours boys etc.
If you go to many villages in india even today no matter how educated you are, you cannot dare go out without a ghunghat on head or wear pants, skirts etc and go out on streets- it shall not be tolerated by both family and society. There are actually two-three society existing among our midst each with different mindsets. It will take a lot of travel to open our mind to reality, not many travel widely to know what exactly takes place in other parts of country or world. I have heard people say that if you are in Delhi and a girl return back by 6pm after that its unsafe and anything can happen, in UP its adviced not to go out at all without a male accompanying you.
If you think India and middle east is dangerous, you have to travel to US where if you go in certain areas you will be mugged for sure, walking is definetly no no, sitting in garden unsafe etc.
Today girls have been prime ministers and astronauts and business woman etc and yet attitude exists. In those days woman had only one major role give birth to heir(for king) and keep him happy. They hardly went out of house or palace and never were considered equal to men by any standards.
In mughal harem book its stated majority wives and cocubbines if sick or dead would not even have their husbands in attendance at funeral. Emperor would not even be aware which wife or cocubbine died. That is why woman were so crazy to have an heir of the emperor or prince because that guaranteed a certain surety of future that at least son or granson shall take care of you if not husband or his family. That is why woman murdered other wives kids in womb, it was survival of fittest. That is why a jodha or nur jahan or mumtaz took so much pain to please the husband. Mumtaz had 14 kids from shah jahan as she did not want him to have kids from other wives and that killed her as she was too weak to give birth at age of 39. Nur jahan learned archery and rifle shooting just to please jehangir and win over jodha(jagat gosain) who was jehangir fav wife at that time. Nur Jahan and Mumtaz were childhood friends or know to their husbands and put such effort so how much more effort an hira kunwar or jagat gosain must have put to become husband favourites.
Hira kunwari also must have done many things to please a casanova like akbar to get his attention. Otherwise why would akbar bother to get attracted to her when he has thousands of beauty vying for attention till even his 50s. And in those times husbands had upper hand they had many wives vying for one husband, not like our age one wife one husband. So wife had to try and be extra special to attract her husband by hook or crook.
So in 16th century it may be even worst. All this glossy love stories are fine, but reality may be quiet different from the fiction.
Edited by myviewprem - 10 years ago

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