Meandering Musings on Mughal Relations - Page 16

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Lavanya,

WOmen like us who want to see strong female characters are a minority.

Do you remember the Mirchi track? Jodha was hated for being shown as winning the war for Mughals.

Even earlier, Jodha was continuously bashed for being a strong character who could hold her own against Jalal and Ruq.

This is the reason why she is being progressively degraded into a helpless abla nari.

Yes I do and nothing wrong in defending oneself. Women must stand up against perpetrators. Infact the Govt has put forth the need for self defence to be made compulsory in schools and many schools have already done so.

The TRPs were high for the track so the TRP meter houses liked it, right. Why worry? 😆

See a movie like Queen works so well at BO so it means most women appreciate that. During social get togethers and at lunch at work, people talk about shows and they have appreciated the women defending themselves. 👍🏼 Hence the track was appreciated by both TRP meters and non TRP meters😛

Regarding bashing, its best to overlook/avoid that and when its against the IF rules, simply report it.

What is appalling is the indignant and submissive portrayal of women because of the lack of competence and creativity amongst the writers. They only have shaadi-bachche-saazish track in mind. The initial success has lead to complacency setting in and hence the need to overhaul the whole system. There is no great effort needed to write such stuff.

Vamps can be strong, stronger than the hero but the heroine must always be an abla nari who needs the hero to save her and give her standing in society.

Vamps can fool the hero but the heroine must be dumber than the hero.

Yes vamps are made strong and the lead characters are made dumb. Why would women always want to conspire, connive against another one? Why the negative character not want to make their life wonderful rather than making another's life miserable? This is perplexing.😆 Infact the climax is a lull too. It again highlights the incompetence of writers to show the cat and mouse game since it requires effort and creativity. Wish the writers could show the outwitting game. Have you seen the show Suits? see the portrayal of women in that- Jessica, Donna and Racheal.

Originally posted by: angie321

Radhika, I respect your opinion.You have explained your point of view very well.😊

According to me, Jodha blamed herself which is natural for a mother to do so which I'm sure you'll agree with.Jodha was less responsible compared to Zeenat and Ruqs,but as a mother she was the most disappointed in herself because even if her role was minute compared to Zeenat or Ruqs,the stongest thought flooding her mind was that she couldn't protect her baby when he needed her the most .This thought totally consumed her and Ruq and Jalal's role did not matter to her at that point of time.I have no problem with that. She was so lost in her guilt, grief and shock(which is understandable)that she could not see beyond herself being the culprit in the case and hence accepted the blame when Jalal and Ruqs blamed her initially.I can understand that too for a certain period of time.But three years is a long time to analyse and see a situation with an open mind.Blaming herself is fine but acknowledging the role of others too is important.Hence,she accepting the sole blame even after 3 years and as you said remaining grateful to Ruqs and Jalal was in poor taste for me.Hence,I totally agree with you that Jodha victimized herself after those 3 years.

But I also think that Jalal too made her a victim.Jalal did internally feel very guilty which was not the case in Hassan track though both the times he was devastated.This guilt was killing him inside and he tried every possible mechanism to lessen it whether it was being his old ruthless self, abandoning Jodha or the Chittor war. When Jodha took the sole blame,he outwardly accepted it and tried convincing himself of Jodha's sole role(though internally he accepted his role too)since this was a means to lessen his guilt and make him feel better,otherwise the outward acceptance of the guilt would have mentally killed him.But even after 3 years he did not verbally accept his role in front of Jodha and was fine with letting Jodha live with the sole guilt forever because doing that was the easy way for him.That was his escape from the blame game.He was not ready to take responsibility for that situation of crisis but put all on her which was unfair.Hence,I thought of him victimizing her.Jodha blaming only herself after 3 years was horrible,but Jalal,as a loving husband,should have tried making Jodha's conscience feel a little better.

I feel both JJ are responsible in victimizing Jodha.

Aashrita, you are right to an extent in saying Jalal victimized Jodha. This may be true initially when Jodha was undergoing the trauma of her child's loss and feeling guilty.

But after 3 years, if Jalal still did not share the blame and let Jodha alone take the brunt of the blame, then I will not say Jalal was victimizing Jodha. I will say Jodha was allowing Jalal to victimize her. She should have told him that they were both equally guilty and that she felt very let down that Jalal had not stood by her when she needed him. If she could not bring herself to say so, at least, she should not have apologized to him and Ruq. She should have remained quiet like them.

I too don't have any problem in them being together now but I would like them to maturely take responsibility for what they have done and to be fair to their partner.

Exactly. I want Jodha to support Jalal in training Salim and making him fearless and brave. I want Jalal to tell Salim about the various hunars of Jodha and take Jodha's help in training Salim.

PS- I'm happy Murad's not Salima's son😊.

But he's not Jodha' s either :(

Originally posted by: prav2

Friends

I would like to share with you all an anecdote in relation with jalal 's punishment of salim today.

There is a snippet in silapathikaram(an epic) which talks about a king called ellalan (manu needhi cholan) who is well known for his meting out of equal justice to friend and foe .There exists a grand bell outside his court and anyone who ring the bell would be heard and justice would be provided. Oneday it seems a cow rang the bell and everyone were surprised and on further inquisition they found that his son while riding a chariot had accidentally killed the cow. The king ordered his son also to be killed under the same chariot wheel .Everyone was very shocked and the reason the king gave was I know my son did it accidentally and its not a punishment to him but I'm actually punishing myself as to feel the pain of the cow ,I have to undergo the same.

Now it seems a extreme measure but at those days these snippets were told to show the high level of justice the kings followed and show that not even the king is above law. When I read wu of jalal's I remembered this and thought may be jalal know salim did it by accident but want to punish himself rather than salim by staying away from the child he love so much thereby he would understand the true pain the grandmother is going through as he is the one who is accountable for every citizens grief . Now i'm not justifying jalal's act or I don't say our cvs would think in this way or show jalal like this .but just thought of sharing this as it had a resemblance.

Originally posted by: lasyap3

👏

There are many more exemplary examples...in our epics and literature...

Originally posted by: myviewprem

Here is another similar justice from Salim aka Jehangir

Jehangir was famous all over the world for his impartial justice which did not care for position of accused wether kin or rich or his own nobels and ministers. Jehangir did not care if the person who had preperated crime was his once favourite person. Even Shah Jahan his favourite son was known to tremble if someone complained against him and Jehangir summoned him to enquiry the lesser said about others. Here is another instance of Jehangir's insaaf. Seis Alla's execution remains a monumental step in his fair justice that made him famous as "Adil Padshah".

Seis Alla was the son of Nur Jahan's sister and his father was Ibrahim was the Subedhar of Bengal. Nur Jahan who did not have sons from either Sher Afghan or Jehangir her two husbands adopted him and brought him up in court. Jehangir too loved him a lot and treated him like an own son even allowing him to seat on his throne at Durbar as a boy. When he became big he was appointed the Subedar of Burdwan. Seis Alla ruled very well for a few years

One day Seis Alla was travelling on his elephant when for his misfortune his elephant trampled a child to death. His parents were distraught and followed the Subedhar Seis Alla and demanded justice to the driver of his elephant. Seis Alla rejected punishing his elephant driver. But the parents were angry and abused him badly hence Seis Alla was furious and expellede the parents from his Suba Burdwan.

The parents would not give up and travelled long distance from Burdwan to Lahore where Jehangir was residing that year and pulled chain of justice. Jehangir listened to them and wrote a letter to Seis Alla in his own hands to restore the parents of their property and immediately give them justice. He even reimbursed them for the long trip to and fro from Lahore to Burdawan.

The parents presented the letter to Seis Alla. Seis Alla was furious as his pride was hurt and threw both parents in prison. After they were relaesed again the parents travelled to Lahore. Seis Alla got to know of this and wrote letter to his aunty and Asaf Khan her brother to not allow this parents in Jehangir's presence at any cost. Nur Jahan odrdered the palace gaurds to watch them and not allow them anywhere near emperor in palace or outside. The parents were determined to get justice and stayed back in lahore waiting for an opportunity. After many months one day they got an opportunity.

One day Jehangir decided to swim in river near Lahore fort. A huge crowd had gathered just to watch their emperor in dusk enjoying his swim in the river. The parents somehow jostled in crowd but were stopped by gaurds from going near to hearing distance of emperor. The parents called out to jehangir thrice. Jehangir who was enjoying his swim heard the last call and turned to see who had called him. The soldiers had no option but to allow them near to the shore. Jehangir recalled meeting the parents few years back. The emperor climbed on his boat and told the rower to row towards the shore.

The parents told their harrowing tale to him on the shore. Jehangir immediately ordered Seis Alla to come to Lahore. The parents were allowed to stay in one of Jehangir's palace till he dispensed justice. Seis Alla had no idea what had happened and arrived after a few weeks and set up camp on opposite side of river at Lahore fort and messaged Jehangir requesting to meet him.

The next early morning Jehangir ordered his elephants to be ready and went to other side of the river with the child's parents. Seis Alla who was still asleep in his camp as it was yet to be dawn was ordered to be bound by Jehangir. Seis Alla was surprised at this. Jehangir read out the charges against him and gave accounts of witnesses he had procured. Seis Alla agreed to his mistakes and Jehangir told him the law a life for a life. The parents did not want any money they wanted justice.

Seis Alla was but a young man was scared but did not speak anything against the emperor. Jehangir ordered him to lie down in path of the elephant for the punishment and he did so as ordered by his father. The child's parents were mounted on the royal elephant. Jehangir odered the mahout to tread on Seis Alla and kill him to death. The mahout was scared of Nur Jahan's wrath and every time allowed the elephant to step over Seis Alla. After a few times Jehangir was furious and threatened the driver to carry out his orders fast. Finally the mahout guided the elephant to tread over Seis Alla the adopted son of Jehangir and Nur Jahan. Seis Alla breathed his last.

Jehangir was numb with grief as he saw his foster son die in front of his eyes and went away in silence. He ordered state mourning for a month and ordered a grand masoulem and held a funeral procession worthy of a emperor's son for Seis Alla.

Jehangir told in court "I loved him but justice like necessity should blind monarch. A monarch has no relation when he dispenses justice".

Jehangir loved Seis Alla like his own son and brought him up lovingly just the way Akbar brought up Bairam Khan's son Abdul Rahim Khan-e-khana

Originally posted by: angie321

Abhay,I totally agree.I too thought very highly of Jalal during the Hassan track and never believed Jalal to accuse Jodha ever, though expected Ruqs to.We were completely taken for a ride by the CVs and were bombarded with this unpleasant surprise and when Jalal blamed Jodha, I could only think of the famous Julius Caeser's "Et tu,Brute" or in this case "Et tu,Jalal" 😕

Right now I'm happy that Murad is not Salima's son!!😊

Originally posted by: lasyap3

Are you sure it's Salim??😲

OMGEEE!!! 👏😆😕

Originally posted by: history_geek

Yes, i was told of a promo where this happened. ;p
The show is based on a fictional novel. :)