JA - NR at its Worst - Page 9

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Abhay,

Wonderful post! 👏

I feel my posts today and in previous few days are inadequate in comparison to this one AWESOME post that lays bare the mockery that the CVs have made of Jodha as well as Chittor in one fell swoop. 😕

Both issues are sensitive and to treat them so lightly, with such disdain for anyone's sentiments is unthinkable.

Did Ekta think how it would be in a country like ours where women are abused everyday to lightly blame a queen for killing her own children through negligence? Did Jalal expect that Jodha would not even go for a bath or anything but sit holding Hussein in her lap 24x7 to guard him? Where is HIS security apparatus?

Did he ever give Jodha any security when she was pregnant, when she was taken to a hakima in the 8th month, when she had her babies? Ruqaiyya has an army of bandis and KS at her feet. Jodha has only Moti who she got from Amer and a reformed convict Zakira? Doesn't a khas begum and MUZ deserve more servants and security?

Coming to the war, you have said everything. I shudder to think that the CVs may make short shrift of the war due to lack of budget and lack of respect to the event.

Hope the TRPs fall enough to make the PH aware that they cannot turn everything into NR and profit should not be the only aim of such a show. Some respect must be maintained for our great royals.

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Manasi

Thank you!

Agree JA is turning into a regular soap..😕

Btw, Ashutosh is making a movie on Mohenjodaro... That is the next "dream" project for Ekta.. they can show anything in the name of NR...hardly anyone knows what happened during those ancient times...😆

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Tamy

Abhay and I understand that he is feeling guilty and wants to punish himself. I have also written about this in my posts on other threads earlier.

The point we are making is that it is OK if he wants to punish himself. It is OK if he withdraws from Jodha. But IT IS NOT OK if he blames Jodha for killing the children she gave birth to under harrowing circumstances. It is NOT OK to punish her for a crime she didn't do. It IS NOT OK to NOT SUPPORT her when she NEEDS him the MOST.

Jodha is mentally strong and still holding on. If it had been someone like Ruq getting this kind of treatment from Jalal, she would have killed herself.

The point I esp wanted to make is this - Jalal's love and short temper cannot be held as excuses for his atrocious behavior towards Jodha in times of crises. TIme and again, he declares love to her passionately and then just as passionately spits venom on her. Tamy, do you really feel any woman, no matter how strong, can take this kind of treatment for a lifetime, without going insane or committing suicide?

There is nothing romantic about this behavior. It is a kind of problem that would be referred for psychological counselling nowadays.

Going beyond the show, it sends a very wrong signal to people that they can take out their temper on a hapless woman and expect her to hold on, taking everything as a manifestation of her husband's immense love for her.

Abhay also made a similar point that tough times call for tough people. That Jalal had to be tough in order to support Jodha through the crisis instead of breaking down himself and punishing her so ruthlessly.

Originally posted by: peepu

Guys with the new tagline I really hope they don't jump to salim...I really hope the reconciliation before baby's birth and baby other than salim is shown. .

Originally posted by: history_geek

Hi @KDR81, 😊

It been long when you posted last. Nice to see your comment here. I hope you too enjoyed the Durga Puja along with other festivals, and a wishing a very Happy Diwali to you and all here..😊

I am posting a common response to Tamy and you,{esp. to Tamy😉} as you both are on same terms regarding Jalal..I did not see any justification or a escape route for Jalal, hence i am posting a detailed response.. No where i saw Jalal was seen blaming HIMSELF, the blame was laid on Jodha VERY EASILY...


What he said is as follows. >>>

1.

First he says to Jodha >> "Hum Aapko apne baachon ki maut ke liye jimmedar manein ? "
{
I want to know, why he asked this Question at the first place.?.
Wasn't he with Jodha that fateful night.?. Isn't he aware.?.
Is he expecting HER to be with with BOTH the Kids 24x7.?.
I mean, what is the reason of asking this question.?.
For me the reasons are quite obvious.
Bachne ki koi gunjaish nahi hai.
Clear blame is ON HER..
And, here he blames her FOR BOTH the KIDS..Not ONE of them...
He was speaking the Language of Ruqayya..!!!!!...
}


2.

He also said to himself ->> "Hum Apni Mohobbat ko Jimmedaar man Rahe the " ( "the" is PAST TENSE)'
{
Isn't this clear that he WAS holding the LOVE responsible, for the mishap IN THE PAST for a few moment, but he NOW NO LONGER holds it responsible in PRESENT moment...?...

^^^This statement of mine was PROVEN CORRECT by Jalal when he said the following words. Read the next sentence..>>
}


3.

Then Jalal said -> " Humne Aapko Husain ke pas jaane ke liye kaha tha na " ..
{
What is the meaning of this sentence above.?.^^^^
He was pointing towards Jodha, and saying as if she was careless and HE FORCED HER TO GO to Husain and she was HELL BENT at remaining with him..!!!!!
Did he say that, I was also with you Jodha Begum.?.
Did he say that I am also responsible for this mishap.?.
Did he say that i also did not FORCE you to GO to Husain.?.

As i said in my Post on Page-1, perhaps my TV Set does not shows me Jalal's POV.?.
Hence, I am not able to interpret this scene properly...

There was NOT a single dialogue where it appeared that he was holding himself responsible for this..He was speaking and asking questions after questions asking Jodha about her responsibilities and involvement...

Did he say that , you are not ALONE responsible , i was equally involved..??

}

It is not tough to see that Jalal held her responsible...He was her rock after the demise of Hasan, but after Husain's demise, the shock which he wrecked upon Jodha, i could not relate to Jalal... What type of Father he is.?. I asked earlier on Page-1, has ONLY he Lost the Kids.?.

Seriously, it was disgusting to hear a father asking such a Question to the Wife/Mother that > "Hum Aapko APNE baachon ki maut ke liye jimmedar manein ? "

Were they not Jodha's sons ALSO.?. How much JUSTIFIED it is to ask SUCH a question to the Mother .?. The very utterance of these Words was pathetic.

1. He gives cold behavior to Jodha by putting on the curtain, while she follows him to his Hojra in the rain.?.
2. What kind of guilt - > He refuses to accept her Pranams also.?.
3. What kind of EPIC LOVE and understanding he is showering upon her, by NOT talking to her.?.
4. Where is his wrath, when he can shout at Jodha but can NOT EVEN utter a word to Ruqayya.?.
5. Did he ask Ruqayya that, YOU were the ROOT CAUSE of all this. She wanted the Kid na.?.
6. And after all, Had Jalal not gifted those Farmans carelessly then, Ruqayya MAY NOT HAVE DRAGGED JALAL to the DEk.?.


He Failed as a Father... He Failed as an Emperor... He Failed as a Husband... Jalal Failed...

I can not relate to this type of behavior...He comes across as someone, who refused to accept his part in this debacle...I could hear the dialogues where he directly and indirectly laid the blame on her, but NOT ONCE he said something about himself or Ruqayya...

I said earlier that, If you are in Love then you need to become the support of your partner, NOT to leave her Alone..Tough times call for going beyond your capabilities to heal your beloved..They are not the times to show your anger, or unleash your burden of guilt on anyone else..""

^^^And here, Jalal is doing exactly the opposite...!!!!..


I do not accept this Kind of Guilt Cum Love, and i find it strange that this behavior found justifications as well...

I want to say, just look from a different perspective...If he wants to punish himself he should..If he is guilty then, DOES HE thinks Jodha won't be suffering from the same guilt.?.

How can he ask those "blaming" questions to Jodha for death of the children she gave birth to under circumstances, which are well known to all.
He has left her alone as if he is the ONLY one who is suffering from this PAIN..

Do all the spouses behave in such a manner under similar circumstances.?. This situation demanded STRONG support from Jalal and he Failed here..Is it not required to show his support to her in this time when she needed him the most.?.

Jodha came out in the rain to share her pain with him while he was in the rain, and the volley of questions which were lashed at her by him, are they justified by any means.?.

He was very well aware of the mental condition of Jodha after the demise of twins...He saw that HIS BACHPAN KA DOST was blaming her endlessly to "EATING UP HER OWN SONS" ,
And even in this DIRE situation he left her.?.

Don't people commit suicide in such circumstances.?. I am not supporting this practice, but only making a point.. Jalal's image in my mind comes as that of a short tempered person(Real Akbar was TOO MUCH short tempered, but he was so much restrained with his close relatives.)

Jalal failed in such a demanding situation, and behaved atrociously in such a circumstance, in times of crises...

For me , his behavior was UN acceptable. I am writing as i saw it..😕

Originally posted by: history_geek

Tamy,

Neetz has replied to you perfectly. I agree with her views..
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/114737213

Your views are fine, but read mine too...I am replying to you point wise..

I hope you read my reply to Neetz...I agreed with her, and she was right.


1.
If she had made him TOO +ve then, there was NO need to make him barbaric at the first place. She should have continued like this only. Why she has shown this track.?. Would you be able to digest a show on General Dyer, if any PH makes a show on his life and TRIES to justify Jallianwala Massacre.?. I am just drawing an example. There are cases where Humanity is tarnished, and the present track is the Worst among them, where UNARMED Civilians were slaughtered, who begged for life, after the exhaustion of their defending army, but were butchered and the explanation of the act is not possible here..
Abhay, main bhi wohi bolrahi hoon...see, I too wanted to see this track but not like this..so yeh dekhkar I feel Ekta should have skipped it.

2.
Please read my reply to you(Charu and Nabiii also)..
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/114764031

Continued:>>:
This is what i am saying, if you want to show then SHOW THE REALITY at least in a sensitive issue, you should not play with the facts.

I am saying that Ekta could have skipped this. In the Old show of DD Akbar the Great, this war was SKIPPED and NOT shown, the maker of that show had portrayed Akbar as a saint from Day-1. Ekta could have done the same. She could have skipped it.. But she decided to show this in a WRONG manner..You know, even the researchers who are MOST "active" flatterers of Akbar, skip this WAR's "explanation" in their accounts, as they can NOT justify or give a reason for this. When even Akbar's chroniclers could not justify it, then how will these researchers do it. But you see Ekta Kapoor has her own UNIQUE Style to be followed..👎🏼.
My comment was about the ETHICS of the PH...

I agree dost!


3.
Yes, This is a crucial phase of his life and his this really led to repercussions with his relations with HK, and i am getting ready for a round of torture AGAIN, as Ekta will exploit this and make Jodha cry buckets on this massacre and Akbar lamenting. The thing which i fear is that she may attempt to show him "reformed" and make a Kalinga out of Chittor and Ashoka out of Akbar.. 🤢
Yaar, Ekta ko jo bhi karna tha she has done, i know she is justifying this, hence this drama.
No doubt he is one of the greatest Emperors(will remain so), but ONE should NOT try to justify EACH Deed of a person..

What i wanted to see.?.
She should have shown the REAL Reasons of war(you know them). She should have shown a war, at least a prolonged one(real siege lasted 4 months). She should have given respect to the Warriors. She should NOT have used this pretext. BUT, She tried to justify this war for WRONG reasons. There have been several NR's till now, but some parts should not be played with. Many bitter memories are associated with this event. Akbar was literally turned into "something inexplicable" in Chittor, and Ekta is hell bent at justifying it.

agar aisa hosakta then every group of fans would have enjoyed it! and u too have understood Ekta is showing all this drama to justify Akbar's massacre...but this justification is very wrong...actually there can't be any justification..but for my sanity, I have accepted it...I know the truth so I am taking it as NR only...but I know where your frustrations lie, that who have no idea of this War r perceiving it in a wrong way coz of Ekta.


4.
No buddy. These people can be taken to task. It has been done before TWICE, since this show started. I know it, though i keep quiet, as the forum is to discuss the show ONLY. :)
I follow not only the onscreen proceedings but much more than that. I will "try" to scan a document and PM you. They can not get away with only a Disclaimer.

PS::
OK..OK...I am now cooled down.. Thanks for your both the comments...

pehle batao, r u angry with me?? mujhe bahut bura lagega agar aisa hai toh

Abhay, I agree with all your points...I am not denying anything bcz u r right..but those r also my POVs jo maine samjha.

Originally posted by: history_geek

Tamy,

See my reply to you above. If you are making your HERO so positive and you can not show the conquests properly then better skip them.

Do you think Audience will accept this Hero who behaves in such a disgusting manner that he goes on a rampage because this Kids are killed.?. And, shows such a Cold behavior to his wife.?.

I can BET none of the lady will like such a husband, at least whatever reactions i have seen till now... Tell me what you think.?.

Originally posted by: history_geek

Hi @KDR81, 😊

It been long when you posted last. Nice to see your comment here. I hope you too enjoyed the Durga Puja along with other festivals, and a wishing a very Happy Diwali to you and all here..😊

I am posting a common response to Tamy and you,{esp. to Tamy😉} as you both are on same terms regarding Jalal..I did not see any justification or a escape route for Jalal, hence i am posting a detailed response.. No where i saw Jalal was seen blaming HIMSELF, the blame was laid on Jodha VERY EASILY...


What he said is as follows. >>>

1.

First he says to Jodha >> "Hum Aapko apne baachon ki maut ke liye jimmedar manein ? "
{
I want to know, why he asked this Question at the first place.?.
Wasn't he with Jodha that fateful night.?. Isn't he aware.?.
Is he expecting HER to be with with BOTH the Kids 24x7.?.
I mean, what is the reason of asking this question.?.
For me the reasons are quite obvious.
Bachne ki koi gunjaish nahi hai.
Clear blame is ON HER..
And, here he blames her FOR BOTH the KIDS..Not ONE of them...
He was speaking the Language of Ruqayya..!!!!!...
}


2.

He also said to himself ->> "Hum Apni Mohobbat ko Jimmedaar man Rahe the " ( "the" is PAST TENSE)'
{
Isn't this clear that he WAS holding the LOVE responsible, for the mishap IN THE PAST for a few moment, but he NOW NO LONGER holds it responsible in PRESENT moment...?...

^^^This statement of mine was PROVEN CORRECT by Jalal when he said the following words. Read the next sentence..>>
}


3.

Then Jalal said -> " Humne Aapko Husain ke pas jaane ke liye kaha tha na " ..
{
What is the meaning of this sentence above.?.^^^^
He was pointing towards Jodha, and saying as if she was careless and HE FORCED HER TO GO to Husain and she was HELL BENT at remaining with him..!!!!!
Did he say that, I was also with you Jodha Begum.?.
Did he say that I am also responsible for this mishap.?.
Did he say that i also did not FORCE you to GO to Husain.?.

As i said in my Post on Page-1, perhaps my TV Set does not shows me Jalal's POV.?.
Hence, I am not able to interpret this scene properly...

There was NOT a single dialogue where it appeared that he was holding himself responsible for this..He was speaking and asking questions after questions asking Jodha about her responsibilities and involvement...

Did he say that , you are not ALONE responsible , i was equally involved..??

}

It is not tough to see that Jalal held her responsible...He was her rock after the demise of Hasan, but after Husain's demise, the shock which he wrecked upon Jodha, i could not relate to Jalal... What type of Father he is.?. I asked earlier on Page-1, has ONLY he Lost the Kids.?.

Seriously, it was disgusting to hear a father asking such a Question to the Wife/Mother that > "Hum Aapko APNE baachon ki maut ke liye jimmedar manein ? "

Were they not Jodha's sons ALSO.?. How much JUSTIFIED it is to ask SUCH a question to the Mother .?. The very utterance of these Words was pathetic.

1. He gives cold behavior to Jodha by putting on the curtain, while she follows him to his Hojra in the rain.?.
2. What kind of guilt - > He refuses to accept her Pranams also.?.
3. What kind of EPIC LOVE and understanding he is showering upon her, by NOT talking to her.?.
4. Where is his wrath, when he can shout at Jodha but can NOT EVEN utter a word to Ruqayya.?.
5. Did he ask Ruqayya that, YOU were the ROOT CAUSE of all this. She wanted the Kid na.?.
6. And after all, Had Jalal not gifted those Farmans carelessly then, Ruqayya MAY NOT HAVE DRAGGED JALAL to the DEk.?.


He Failed as a Father... He Failed as an Emperor... He Failed as a Husband... Jalal Failed...

I can not relate to this type of behavior...He comes across as someone, who refused to accept his part in this debacle...I could hear the dialogues where he directly and indirectly laid the blame on her, but NOT ONCE he said something about himself or Ruqayya...

I said earlier that, If you are in Love then you need to become the support of your partner, NOT to leave her Alone..Tough times call for going beyond your capabilities to heal your beloved..They are not the times to show your anger, or unleash your burden of guilt on anyone else..""

^^^And here, Jalal is doing exactly the opposite...!!!!..


I do not accept this Kind of Guilt Cum Love, and i find it strange that this behavior found justifications as well...

I want to say, just look from a different perspective...If he wants to punish himself he should..If he is guilty then, DOES HE thinks Jodha won't be suffering from the same guilt.?.

How can he ask those "blaming" questions to Jodha for death of the children she gave birth to under circumstances, which are well known to all.
He has left her alone as if he is the ONLY one who is suffering from this PAIN..

Do all the spouses behave in such a manner under similar circumstances.?. This situation demanded STRONG support from Jalal and he Failed here..Is it not required to show his support to her in this time when she needed him the most.?.

Jodha came out in the rain to share her pain with him while he was in the rain, and the volley of questions which were lashed at her by him, are they justified by any means.?.

He was very well aware of the mental condition of Jodha after the demise of twins...He saw that HIS BACHPAN KA DOST was blaming her endlessly to "EATING UP HER OWN SONS" ,
And even in this DIRE situation he left her.?.

Don't people commit suicide in such circumstances.?. I am not supporting this practice, but only making a point.. Jalal's image in my mind comes as that of a short tempered person(Real Akbar was TOO MUCH short tempered, but he was so much restrained with his close relatives.)

Jalal failed in such a demanding situation, and behaved atrociously in such a circumstance, in times of crises...

For me , his behavior was UN acceptable. I am writing as i saw it..😕

Originally posted by: tamy267