Take 5 Discussion Thread July 2014 Part 1- Note on pg 11

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ghalibmirza

@ghalibmirza

Stunner

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#101

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Sandhya and Sara, my pets, and all my other friends here,

I am speechless at the prospect of this new promo. I did not think even Balaji could sink so low.

Already, it was bad enough to see a Jalal almost afraid of going to war, with such a dismal, depressed face, and this NOT because he does not want to fight his beloved Nigar Apa,but because he was practically sure he was going to lose. It was the pits to see him declaring this to Jodha, and adding that he might well die in the battle. What a way to keep up the spirits of his womenfolk!

If everyone of the soldiers who participated in the Normandy landings on D Day had carried on like this, the Allies would have been routed in a matter of days. But the soldiers fought and died with courage and tenacity, and the Nazis were defeated in the end.

Here, can you imagine the spirits of the Mughal soldiers once they take a look at their Shahenshah's face? They would immediately sink into their boots. The consequences can be well imagined. It is a disgrace of the worst kind.

The only saving grace last night was the gallantry of Ruqaiya, sending Jalal off to Jodha for the kind of peace and rest he needs before a battle.

Not that this is going to do much for this wetrag of an emperor, already weeping at his anticipated loss. Shivaji Maharaj, if he were not 2 centuries later, could have taught Jalal how to win a battle with a tenth of the enemy's strength in men. And this was supposed to be the great conqueror of over half of Hindustan? Akbar must be whirling in his tomb at Sikandra at such blasphemy.

And to top all this,we are now apparently going to have a repeat of Dharmendra in Sholay, bar Jodha getting up and dancing on broken glass a la Hema Malini. It sounds exactly like that, though Gabbar Singh would take strong exception to being compared to the one-eyed wonder, he of the horsehair wigs, Abul Mali. Oh God, what is this show coming to?😡😡

One good thing is that I do not have to waste time commenting on this asinine rubbish. My advice to all of you who might read this, and Mandy my dear, you in particular: Do NOT waste your non-renewable time and your hard earned money calling Zee. Better go and watch Jodhaa Akbar the movie once more, as I am doing now.

Shyamala Aunty

shyamala my dear in order to dramatize things they have made akbar into dharmendra and believe me ameries will act like jai and save him and jodha like hema will somehow keep him alive until the ameri heroes come for his rescue...and then jai jodha and jai ameries and jodha will spend the next week applying lep and singing loris and topping it up with colored ulties in between leps

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#102

My dear Rashmi,

Even without Balasaheb today, Ekta would never dare to touch Shivaji. If she did, she would have to clear every frame with his successors, and she would have to do a hagiography, as they are doing with Maharana Pratap in the Sony serial that I have long since abandoned.

Yes, Jalal was pathetic last night. I hated it.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: Rashmi81
Dear Mam,
I am also from Pune and marathi infact.So you know how we love him.Well I think Shivaji had only one influence in his life that was his mother.He never had a love story,So I don't think he will ever excite Ekta to make a saga on his life.If she ever tried to make and that too if she had tried it 3 to 4 years back and played with history,who would have saved her from Bal Thackeray.
But I heard ,she was trying with Bajirao Mastani and had a battle with Sanjay Bhansali.
But I feel very bad of Akbar.He is killed everyday by these people.I had dreamed of so many things like he making strategies, studying maps ,motivating soldiers,sharpening of swords and spears with the background score of Conquest of Paradise.Nothing of that happened during war preparation.
Even caption Jsparrow with small no of pirates fights with Royal British Army.Because ,he has self confidence.That was lacking with our hero yesterday.

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Tabassum

@Arieltabi

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#103

@Aunty and Rashmi
If there would have been so many problem if EK have done this to Shivaji Maharaj what she is doing with Akbar. Then why no protest in Akbar's case. Doesn't people care about him? Don't he have any value anymore? He was Akbar the great and he did so much for india. Doesn't people care for him anymore in India? Or is it because he was a muslim ruler and not an indian? Sorry for the last line. I don't have any intention to hurt anyone's feeling just saying.

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Rashmi81

@Rashmi81

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#104

Originally posted by: Arieltabi
@Aunty and Rashmi
If there would have been so many problem if EK have done this to Shivaji Maharaj what she is doing with Akbar. Then why no protest in Akbar's case. Doesn't people care about him? Don't he have any value anymore? He was Akbar the great and he did so much for india. Doesn't people care for him anymore in India? Or is it because he was a muslim ruler and not an indian? Sorry for the last line. I don't have any intention to hurt anyone's feeling just saying.

No dear,don't say sorry for last line.Even I feel ,Shivaji is worshipped by Shiv Sena,MNS and in Maharashtra where Tellywood,Bollywood is situated ,to ignore these parties is difficult.

I feel so bad that Akbar was taken as among the top best rulers of India and no political party is coming in his support.

I think ,Shyamalaji will throw more light on this as she is aware of these political situations more than us

Edited by Rashmi81 - 11 years ago

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Sandhya.A

@Sandhya.A

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#105

Originally posted by: Arieltabi
@Aunty and Rashmi
If there would have been so many problem if EK have done this to Shivaji Maharaj what she is doing with Akbar. Then why no protest in Akbar's case. Doesn't people care about him? Don't he have any value anymore? He was Akbar the great and he did so much for india. Doesn't people care for him anymore in India? Or is it because he was a muslim ruler and not an indian? Sorry for the last line. I don't have any intention to hurt anyone's feeling just saying.

This is what happens when you are a moderate dear. You don't have the support of the extremists. He is not forcefully supported by those of his own clan as he gave equal importance to all religions. He is not supported by those of the other clans as he is not 'theirs', you see.

He is only adored and loved by those who are broad-minded and intelligent, the ones with sense and sensibility as he was far ahead of his times,(and as Aunty said, he was ahead of our times too.) But these people are not the sort who will take out to the streets and cry slogans or throw stones at the Balaji office. At most they switch channels at 8 o clock and prefer to remember Akbar the way they have read.

Hence Balaji probably prefers to cater to the fancies of those who pressurise them. Hence all the Mahaanta mess.

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Rashmi81

@Rashmi81

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#106

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

This is what happens when you are a moderate dear. You don't have the support of the extremists. He is not forcefully supported by those of his own clan as he gave equal importance to all religions. He is not supported by those of the other clans as he is not 'theirs', you see.

He is only adored and loved by those who are broad-minded and intelligent, the ones with sense and sensibility as he was far ahead of his times,(and as Aunty said, he was ahead of our times too.) But these people are not the sort who will take out to the streets and cry slogans or throw stones at the Balaji office. At most they switch channels at 8 o clock and prefer to remember Akbar the way they have read.

Hence Balaji probably prefers to cater to the fancies of those who pressurise them. Hence all the Mahaanta mess.

Bang on Sandhya.You have put forward very good points and very true

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AKT.JA

@AKT.JA

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#107

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Sandhya and Sara, my pets, and all my other friends here,

I am speechless at the prospect of this new promo. I did not think even Balaji could sink so low.

Already, it was bad enough to see a Jalal almost afraid of going to war, with such a dismal, depressed face, and this NOT because he does not want to fight his beloved Nigar Apa,but because he was practically sure he was going to lose. It was the pits to see him declaring this to Jodha, and adding that he might well die in the battle. What a way to keep up the spirits of his womenfolk!

If everyone of the soldiers who participated in the Normandy landings on D Day had carried on like this, the Allies would have been routed in a matter of days. But the soldiers fought and died with courage and tenacity, and the Nazis were defeated in the end.

Here, can you imagine the spirits of the Mughal soldiers once they take a look at their Shahenshah's face? They would immediately sink into their boots. The consequences can be well imagined. It is a disgrace of the worst kind.

The only saving grace last night was the gallantry of Ruqaiya, sending Jalal off to Jodha for the kind of peace and rest he needs before a battle.

Not that this is going to do much for this wetrag of an emperor, already weeping at his anticipated loss. Shivaji Maharaj, if he were not 2 centuries later, could have taught Jalal how to win a battle with a tenth of the enemy's strength in men. And this was supposed to be the great conqueror of over half of Hindustan? Akbar must be whirling in his tomb at Sikandra at such blasphemy.

And to top all this,we are now apparently going to have a repeat of Dharmendra in Sholay, bar Jodha getting up and dancing on broken glass a la Hema Malini. It sounds exactly like that, though Gabbar Singh would take strong exception to being compared to the one-eyed wonder, he of the horsehair wigs, Abul Mali. Oh God, what is this show coming to?😡😡

One good thing is that I do not have to waste time commenting on this asinine rubbish. My advice to all of you who might read this, and Mandy my dear, you in particular: Do NOT waste your non-renewable time and your hard earned money calling Zee. Better go and watch Jodhaa Akbar the movie once more, as I am doing now...

For me one of the few joys left in JA is visiting this forum and occasionally coming across thoughtful and perceptive analysis like this. It is a solace to read such posts.

Nothing about JA seems convincing now. As depicted, Akbar the Great seems to have been some dimwitted weepy whiny moron. However, the real target of CV's contempt are the viewers. They are supposed to believe and accept anything. Here are a few of my peeves in random order.

The CVs dedication to MA and AK characters has been nothing short of mind boggling. Besides the screen space+time they continue to hog, it is simply unreal how they are able to continue conspiring right under Akbar's nose, including fatal attacks on his soldiers. Unconvincing and annoying.

When we were introduced to him, the current abba-huzoor HQ was actually afraid of MCB, who is a marginal provincial chief in Kabul. However, now his army is so powerful that it is about to run over the Mughal Empire, put the Emperor in chains, and enslave his harem? Akbar and his commanders, who are well informed about MCB and AM's trechery, have left their capital so vulnerable? Thank God for Akbar's harem and Jodha's maika, which is where everyone miscalculated, for they and only they will trounce this army and rescue Akbar.

Even if Akbar doesn't know about Shivaji who will come in future, he does know that his own grandfather Babur defeated a far larger force in Delhi. Even he and BK did quite well against the larger force of Hemu---he should remember that because he just celebrated the jashn in memory.

I have nothing against NR, but the basic story line and characters should remain believable while NR provides color and spice. Instead we have nothing left of the original. It is like a dinner in which a plate of spices is placed in front of you! Presently JA's conceptualization and execution is beyond stupid, beyond funny. EK and BPH's worldview seems to have no room for intelligent viewers.

Attention to detail is so poor that on the eve of the war, Jodha is explaining jauhar to Akbar by saying that it is better to die than be touched by a vidharmi soldier, ie, a soldier of a different religion. That might have sounded about right from the lips of someone in MP's harem---although, the attraction of being raped by an enemy of one's own religion is less than clear to me---but for Pete sake, this is a Mughal Begum, wife of one Mughal Emperor and would-be mother of another, who is learning to do Adab and Namaz! Our dimwitted CVs could have had Jodha make her point just as effectively by using a word like "enemy". Fortunately, her husband is depicted as even more dense and clueless, so he won't notice or mind. 😊 Enough said.

Added Later: Temporarily I am withholding judgment on how weak Jalal and Mughal armies are being depicted. Mansi has gotten some info which makes her suspect that all of this is part of a teda chaal. Please see:

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/jodha-akbar/4091172/does-jalal-have-an-ace-up-his-sleeve

Edited by AKT.JA - 11 years ago

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ghalibmirza

@ghalibmirza

Stunner

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#108

Originally posted by: Arieltabi
@Aunty and Rashmi
If there would have been so many problem if EK have done this to Shivaji Maharaj what she is doing with Akbar. Then why no protest in Akbar's case. Doesn't people care about him? Don't he have any value anymore? He was Akbar the great and he did so much for india. Doesn't people care for him anymore in India? Or is it because he was a muslim ruler and not an indian? Sorry for the last line. I don't have any intention to hurt anyone's feeling just saying.

Bang on dear I too feel the same!

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ChrisPaul

@ChrisPaul

Beginner

Posted: 11 years ago

#109

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Sandhya and Sara, my pets, and all my other friends here,

I am speechless at the prospect of this new promo. I did not think even Balaji could sink so low.

Already, it was bad enough to see a Jalal almost afraid of going to war, with such a dismal, depressed face, and this NOT because he does not want to fight his beloved Nigar Apa,but because he was practically sure he was going to lose. It was the pits to see him declaring this to Jodha, and adding that he might well die in the battle. What a way to keep up the spirits of his womenfolk!

If everyone of the soldiers who participated in the Normandy landings on D Day had carried on like this, the Allies would have been routed in a matter of days. But the soldiers fought and died with courage and tenacity, and the Nazis were defeated in the end.

Here, can you imagine the spirits of the Mughal soldiers once they take a look at their Shahenshah's face? They would immediately sink into their boots. The consequences can be well imagined. It is a disgrace of the worst kind.

The only saving grace last night was the gallantry of Ruqaiya, sending Jalal off to Jodha for the kind of peace and rest he needs before a battle.

Not that this is going to do much for this wetrag of an emperor, already weeping at his anticipated loss. Shivaji Maharaj, if he were not 2 centuries later, could have taught Jalal how to win a battle with a tenth of the enemy's strength in men. And this was supposed to be the great conqueror of over half of Hindustan? Akbar must be whirling in his tomb at Sikandra at such blasphemy.

And to top all this,we are now apparently going to have a repeat of Dharmendra in Sholay, bar Jodha getting up and dancing on broken glass a la Hema Malini. It sounds exactly like that, though Gabbar Singh would take strong exception to being compared to the one-eyed wonder, he of the horsehair wigs, Abul Mali. Oh God, what is this show coming to?😡😡

One good thing is that I do not have to waste time commenting on this asinine rubbish. My advice to all of you who might read this, and Mandy my dear, you in particular: Do NOT waste your non-renewable time and your hard earned money calling Zee. Better go and watch Jodhaa Akbar the movie once more, as I am doing now.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: sashashyam

I shall look forward to your Take 5 on that episode as well! You are so often like Darcy in Pride and Prejudice when Elizabeth visits Pemberley: He was ready, eager, determined to be pleased!😉😉

Shyamala Aunty

Dear Ma'am,

I applaud you for your wonderful take 👏 Bang On!

You can understand my sentiments when I say that I have not watched any of the episodes this week as I am unable to watch a great personality being butchered in the name of creative liberties I contend myself with reading the written update.

Just to show the personal side and love life of Akbar, it is really a shame the way he has been characterized in the recent episodes; which may be aptly defined by the Latin proverb 'Leonis exuvium super asinum' (English: A lion's skin on a donkey). 😲

A lion and a donkey are completely different animal characters. The lion is brave, noble, the king of beasts. The donkey is not a fighter, hardly noble, and is a beast of burden, the animal symbol of a slave's lot in life. Obviously, a lion's skin doesn't suit a donkey, so this is a proverb about things that are out of place. This makes you think 'Can this be the great warrior and inspirational personality we read about? Such a weakling?' 😕. No, he could never have been the 'cry baby' as the saying goes 'Clothes may disguise a fool, but his words will give him away'.

Akbar is also known as a great thinker, a great strategist and for his prowess in war - winning battles with less numbers quite few times. But recent episodes depict as if the 'petticoat government' is still continuing only that it has exchanged hands from Maham Anga to Harem 😒 😡. Will the CVs stop degrading such a great personality and show us the 'real' Abkar and 'subtle' lover he must have been? I dearly hope so.

[p.s.: I love Darcy of Pemberley - Jane Austen's hero 😛 For all his rightful arrogance, forceful personality and later quite lover - the transition was gradual and no time was reduced to less than a man. Jane Austen gradually built the character without changing the base. Very Manly! 😳]

-ChrisPaul

Edited by ChrisPaul - 11 years ago

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AKT.JA

@AKT.JA

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#110

Originally posted by: Arieltabi
@Aunty and Rashmi
If there would have been so many problem if EK have done this to Shivaji Maharaj what she is doing with Akbar. Then why no protest in Akbar's case. Doesn't people care about him? Don't he have any value anymore? He was Akbar the great and he did so much for india. Doesn't people care for him anymore in India? Or is it because he was a muslim ruler and not an indian? Sorry for the last line. I don't have any intention to hurt anyone's feeling just saying.

You have raised two very good points. I'll just state a few opinions, deferring a detailed discussion for later, only in case it is wanted.

Akbar was an Indian - one of the greatest Indians ever.

His grandfather Babur was a foreigner who, it so happens, did not even like India. Nothing wrong with that, we all have our taste; who can disagree with him about the climate of Delhi and Agra? :)

From Humayun onwards, all Mughals were Indian. Good or bad, but Indian.

Akbar's "problem" was that he had a broad vision which did not appeal to those with narrower thinking. Many Muslims didn't like him because he wasn't a fanatic Muslim and tried to be fair to all. Many Hindus didn't like him because he was a "foreigner" to them. You see traces of this in the serial itself, but it is also the reason why he has no "constituency" in today's India.

For whatever reason, India effectively lost the idea of greater common unity long ago and has never really recovered it. We remain rooted in narrower loyalties. If Akbar had been a fanatic Sunni Muslim like his great-grandson Aurangzeb, there would be a vocal constituency for him today. If he had a geographical identity like Maratha, Bengali, Tamil etc, there might be violent demonstrations in front of the channel offices. Ditto if he was indentified with a Jat, Dalit, or Sikh cause. But he merely wanted to unite and be fair to all subjects.

In a sense, people of India did not and still do not deserve Akbar. His vision and ideas could not survive in his absence. His legacy was lost after his departure from the scene, in fact systematically destroyed by his own heirs without much protest from most sections of society. Unwittingly, everyone was busy preparing India for the East India Company. 😊

Akbar did not deserve us. We did not deserve him. We deserved Nadir Shah and the East India Company. Sad but true.

Edited by AKT.JA - 11 years ago