Akbar - MUZ Kids :: Part-6 : JA is NOT Fiction

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Jaz713

@Jaz713

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#121

Gosh Abhay, you need to expand your audience beyond India-Forums. This hard work deserves it!

I still haven't finished perusing all the information you and others have researched so meticulously and generously. Nevertheless, I wanted to leave a comment letting you know that I really appreciate it!

It's heartwarming to know that others out there have such a love for history that they spend a considerable amount of time researching it without the lure of money.

Everyone has lost that sense of wonder these days and cynicism has clouded their eyes that they automatically assume that love stories such as that of Jodha and Akbar's is fake.

It's a shame really especially when such a love story is even more relevant these days with all the divisions and caste issues that persist in today's society. Jodha and Akbar, in the 16th century itself, managed to transcend all of that and love each other without regard to religion and origin!

It is a story that should be recited often and for generations to come! So thank you Lizzy, Kamal, and Abhay for unearthing all of this and making such posts possible!

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Petal_Pose

@Petal_Pose

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#122

You have only given us a thin sketch of what she was like. Can you please give us a full sketch what she was really like? Was she good at swordfighting as shown in the show? Did she have knowledge about medicines? Was she a good horsewoman? Few of these tiny questions. Were all this historical facts? . thanks.😊

Edited by Birdiee - 11 years ago

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ThorinMcBroody

@ThorinMcBroody

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#123

First of all, a huge and well deserved round of applause to you guys, Abhay, KDR81, Lizzy2012 and the other countless people who worked so diligently and with back-breaking hard work to provide us with such an excellent, outstanding thread... My god !! I should be speechless with wonder but i have to write a long, long comment here to express my gratitude and point out my favourite parts... after all I started reading at 8:30 in the morning with a glass of milk in hand and finished at 10 am... excellent time for a light-hearted reading of history ..eh?😉😆

So kudos to you guys... take a bow!! 👏

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I know its not quite right to do so, but I couldn't help pick out my favourites from the kids of MUZ and Akbar... In my defense I'll say they'd given us quite a collection...😆😆

There is no doubt that salim and murad's birth, the subsequent jashn's (🤢 😆) and the way poets, painters and historians, esp Abu'l Fazl and Badayuni, have praised and described their birth and parents with lovely writings, paintings and qiblahs...

But one read of Prince Daniyal's segment in this particular thread and this female (points to self) is irrevocably charmed 😳...(except for the death due to the special potion of alcohol and gunpowder part 😭)

i'll quote the parts that had me smiling goofily and fondly...😆 (me in blue)

3. He was very fond of elephant and horses. It was impossible for him to hear of anyone as having a good horse or elephant and not take it from him, sometimes forgetting the trifling ceremony of paying for it. 😆

sounds like me and my younger sis...😆😆😆

4. He was fond of Hindi songs, and would occasionally compose verses with correct idiom in the language of the native people of Hindustan, which were not bad.😆 And, was a good reciter of Hindi poetry.

This praise sounds very diplomatic...😉

I can imagine just what he'd have composed...😉 perhaps like some of my painful masterpieces of junior school...😆😆

5. Daniyal was almost as fond of good eating as he was of drink.

drinks aside, we'd have been great food buddies...😆

but the part that sealed the deal was this...

""under the sign of Aries according to the Greek philosophers, and of Pisces according to the Indian sages""

Fellow piscean ! woohooo !! 🥳

But its so sad he died such a ghastly death... 😭

Is it true that he'd have succeeded Akbar if not for his alcohol addiction since you mentioned he was considered the best person to succeed Akbar...?

Apart from Daniyal i also particularly liked Firoze Khannum and Aram Banu Begum

guess you dont need to know why...?😆

""Firoze Khannum
She was an accomplished warrior in her "own right", was HIGHLY interested in statecraft and warfare, helped her mother command her forces, and controlled the forces in the absence of her mother. The interested fact about her is that, She did NOT miss targets even while shooting with a GUN. ""

Wonder who taught her all this...??😉😉 Some Baaghin i'll presume...😆

""Aram Banu Begum
She was the FAVORITE, and youngest/last child of Akbar, born at age of 42. Akbar was fond of her mis-chiefs.😆 It was she, who inherited MUZ's nature of High Self-Esteem and reasoning capability, but was 'even' MORE outspoken than her mother, 😉 had her 'pert' opinions on 'every' matter, was Akbar's darling child. She was ALSO EXTREMELY beautiful. Due to her colorful/saucy/naughty nature and flightiness, she was also called - "Butterfly of Harem". She is said to be an intelligent lady, and was a Poet, too. ""

Wow... i LOVED this, for this not only outlined the nature of MUZ (what an amazing spunky lady!😃) but also gave more proof that MUZ was indeed the favourite of Akbar due to her nature and not just cos she was beautiful or sired an heir for him... Lovely find !! Absolutely love it... Special thanks for this...👏 The serial is not entirely off mark... i'll breathe easy now 😛

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Its sad and a depressing thought that so much of wrong information is freely available to the masses in the name of authentic history...Especially the curious case of the multiple Jahangir Nama's by multiple Jahangir's...😕😆😆

one mention of Salima begum having beget Akbar a son and her being a concubine and the sarcastic devil in me came up with some colorful names for the person/persons here posing as Jahangir...😡😆

what saddens me more is that due to petty prejudice, MUZ's name has been excluded or sidelined by many historians...

so much so that the children she gave birth to were written as the offsprings of some other lady or worse yet, concubines...👎🏼

I'm glad that there are people who are willing to work hard and not shy away from seeking the truth ! People like YOU guys and my now recent fav Abu'l Qa'asim Firishta...😃

for confirming that yes, MUZ indeed was Akbar's beloved... the guy gave proper confirmation to those desirous of the "EXACT WORDING" if Akbar really favoured MUZ...😉

As if the facts that she accompanied him to wars, lead the cavalry and had mighty ships under her jurisdiction, was the beloved of the entire kingdom, had most kid with Akbar and and was given precious titles like Wali Ni'maat and Malika-e-Muezzama were not enough...

Another mention for the sheer lovely way Abu'l Fazl described MUZ and set her apart from the other ladies of the harem... She was indeed special, that one...😳

What astounded me further was that tales of Akbar and his beloved Hindu wife have been circulating in the golden triangle region of India much before the movie and serial as you mentioned... WOW... this was new to me and I'm glad for it...😳

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Just skimmed through the scans of The History of Nations you provided... will read carefully later and comment surely...😊

Another huge thanks for indulging in such exhaustive research for the sake of not accolades but truth, the direct kind... Looking forward to more such posts...😊

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Quoting one of my favourite quote from Sherlock Holmes (you mentioned him some😆😆) for it seemed very appropriate...

when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth

RIP MUZ-Akbar... may your unique story that transcended barriers of religion and cultures reach to the hearts of millions and to the future as well and stays for eternity to come...😊

Edited by ThorinMcBroody - 11 years ago

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Abhay

@history_geek

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#124

Originally posted by: Pals2411
Wow Abhay👏...Thanks Lizzy and KDR😃...I don't know what to say...I am actually dumbstruck, speechless right now...I wanted to put RES here, but couldn't, seeing the enormous amount off digging, hardwork behind this information...The Akbar-MUZ kid section has rattled me...I am seeing some kid names under MUZ here that have been directed to some other queens and concubineselsewhere...Its like she was the mother of nearly all his offsprings (10)...Iam actually a bit shocked but very very happy😉...Will write more detailed version afterwards...But before that👏

You're Welcome Pallavi. It is indeed shocking/sad that her kids have been assigned to some other ladies. But, in the process of 'creating' so many manuscripts, 'they' ended up contradicting own accounts.

BTW, Let me tell you, such DEEP is the amount of distortion that, there is almost no Mughal account 'LEFT' which 'EXPLICITLY' states MUZ to be mother of Jahangir.!!!!!!. But, they can destroy/distort/change the written memoirs, but NOT the edicts/farmans/hukms issued by her, WHICH ARE STILL PRESENT..!!

No wonder, truth always finds it's way out.
Waiting for you to UNRES your post, after you finish reading the entire thing. I have read comments saying this is too long. 😊

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binmad

@binmad

Beginner

Posted: 11 years ago

#125

Hi Abhay,

Thanks for giving us explicit and much needed information. would like to give an applaud👏 for all of you who work so hard to gather the information. I can understand how hard it was . I have a tiny doubt how come most of Akbar's daughters are unmarried ? is Murad and Danial are too unmarried ?

is there any reason behind that or those are by their personal choices ? if you have time please do take some time to clarify my doubt

Thanks,

Bindu

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Pallavi

@Pals2411

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#126

Originally posted by: history_geek

You're Welcome Pallavi. It is indeed shocking/sad that her kids have been assigned to some other ladies. But, in the process of 'creating' so many manuscripts, 'they' ended up contradicting own accounts.

BTW, Let me tell you, such DEEP is the amount of distortion that, there is almost no Mughal account 'LEFT' which 'EXPLICITLY' states MUZ to be mother of Jahangir.!!!!!!. But, they can destroy/distort/change the written memoirs, but NOT the edicts/farmans/hukms issued by her, WHICH ARE STILL PRESENT..!!

No wonder, truth always finds it's way out.
Waiting for you to UNRES your post, after you finish reading the entire thing. I have read comments saying this is too long. 😊

There was/still is a lot to say and ask Abhay but a lot of them has already been done by members in this thread😊...Good to see members contributing, asking, clearing their doubts and you and your team taking time out, doing your research and answering...Appreciate it a lot

...This give and take is actually enriching us all...

While reading the first part, MUZ-Akbar kiddy section, (the number of kids they had, how she was with Akbar during wars - despite conceiving sometimes, how they were together even during difficult times) I had no doubt in my mind about the depth of the relationship between them.

Regarding children, there is a persistent confusion regarding 'Total no. of children that Akbar had, the no. of children he had with MUZ and most importantly the actual mothers of the children'...The debate will continue for years ahead, though I and a lot of members in this forum are fortunate to find guides like you, Lizzy, KDR and all those who helped/contributed in passing and posting such vital/actual info... Sometimes I wonder why so???...When a lot of things have been chronicled, there were able writers writing down minute details regarding the Shahenshah... and the birth of children was so much looked forward in the Sultanate, then why such an important personal thing like the children of Akbar and their mothers were not explicitly covered...😕

Despite the best efforts to find them out, I think (personal view) it will still remain debatable because these important things have not been covered clearly (when Jahangir's birth is not explicitly covered, then what should I make about the rest of the children) or might have been simply destroyed so that the future generation does not get hold of real info due to extreme prejudice...

Regarding twins, I never had a doubt that they were from MUZ...Nor about Jahangir and Daniyal...I knew MUZ had girls...3 of them are confirmed from you --- but Khannum Sultan and Shahzadi Khannum's mother is not confirmed (I will wait for your info on that)😊...MUZ being Murad's mother was big revelation for me because I have always read that he was Salima's own child or from a concubine that was passed to Salima...So this fact was really startling😊... Also the time difference between Salim and Murad makes it another bone of contention for people in general (not me😉) to believe Murad being MUZ ka beta...All said and done, Murad is MUZ's son...After all his birth was not easy and his health was not the best during his formative years...Actually the name suits him...Murado se aaya hai Murad...😃

I am just writing my thoughts on the first part Abhay😆...Bear with me...2nd and 3rd part to bakki hai😆...Hope you don't say RES for that, due to my long posts and sometimes senseless writings...

PS: Thanks Radhika and all those who picked pieces and posted again along with writing their thoughts on them...It is really very lovely to read them...

Edited by Pals2411 - 11 years ago

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Pallavi

@Pals2411

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#127

Sorry, but I had to ask Abhay, as I had one question in mind...I was going thru the errors in different versions of Jahangirnama and I just don't understand how have the translating authors made such glaring blunders like changing the age of a begum or pointing out someone else as the mother of a child, when their source (written by Jahangir himself) is the same... 😕...They surely cannot/should not add extra acquired info as it is the translated version...Then why such discrepancy😕

Seeing these errors, I am confused😕...Is there an authentic translated version of real Jahangirnama actually available online (ERROR-FREE I MEAN)?????...

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Sandhya.A

@Sandhya.A

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#128

Thanks Abhay for your painstaking efforts.

The part about Jehangirnama is amusing.

But wasn't it the Jehangirnama that mentioned Salim paying respect to MUZ by touching her feet. Was that fabricated too. Or is it only such information that is against Jodha 'twisted information'.

Also the part about the supposed Akbar-Ruqaiya rift. That too is not documented or a part of any chronicle. That too was a part of only one, that too foreign author's ( the kind whom you happily call distorian and I wholeheartedly agree😊) work of fiction.

What I mean to say is that we all see things the way we like to see them. Also if the veracity of one aspect of a book is questioned the rest of the book also falls under scrutiny and every other similar source of information also becomes questionable.

As for the info on Akbar's children, thanks once again. Nice to see that Akbar and HK shared a happy married life.

Also Akbar who was blessed in every other aspect in life was let down by destiny as far as his kids are concerned. None of his sons adored him loved him unfailingly the way he adored his parents. Should we say that Maham Anga and BK taught him better 'sanskars' than the rest of his family and many many wives taught his sons!😲🤣

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Ananya

@ann2012

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#129

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A
Thanks Abhay for your painstaking efforts.
The part about Jehangirnama is amusing.

But wasn't it the Jehangirnama that mentioned Salim paying respect to MUZ by touching her feet. Was that fabricated too. Or is it only such information that is against Jodha 'twisted information'.

Also the part about the supposed Akbar-Ruqaiya rift. That too is not documented or a part of any chronicle. That too was a part of only one, that too foreign author's ( the kind whom you happily call distorian and I wholeheartedly agree😊) work of fiction.

What I mean to say is that we all see things the way we like to see them. Also if the veracity of one aspect of a book is questioned the rest of the book also falls under scrutiny and every other similar source of information also becomes questionable.

As for the info on Akbar's children, thanks once again. Nice to see that Akbar and HK shared a happy married life.

Also Akbar who was blessed in every other aspect in life was let down by destiny as far as his kids are concerned. None of his sons adored him loved him unfailingly the way he adored his parents. Should we say that Maham Anga and BK taught him better 'sanskars' than the rest of his family and many many wives taught his sons!😲🤣

Well, there is some stuff that is consistent across all Jahangirnamas. The parts about Jahangir paying obeisance to his mother and referring her with the epithet 'Her Majesty', is one of them. Abhay has mentioned parts which were inconsistent and each Jahangirnama had it's own version regarding it. So, obviously the books are not to be relied upon regarding those incidents.

Jahangir never met his father on open battlefield He never raised arms against him though he threatened to. He didn't kill his brothers for throne and would have pardoned Khusrau if he didn't attack him. His brothers families were treated with same respect and retained their status after Akbar's death. Infact, Shehzada Parvez was married to a daughter of Sultan Murad (another fact which in consistent across the Jahangirnamas 😉). Akbar's children had much better upbringing when you compare them to the subsequent generations of Mughal emperors and the horrors they indulged in to take the throne.

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Sandhya.A

@Sandhya.A

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#130

Originally posted by: ann2012

Well, there is some stuff that is consistent across all Jahangirnamas. The parts about Jahangir paying obeisance to his mother and referring her with the epithet 'Her Majesty', is one of them. Abhay has mentioned parts which were inconsistent and each Jahangirnama had it's own version regarding it. So, obviously the books are not to be relied upon regarding those incidents.

Jahangir never met his father on open battlefield He never raised arms against him though he threatened to. He didn't kill his brothers for throne and would have pardoned Khusrau if he didn't attack him. His brothers families were treated with same respect and retained their status after Akbar's death. Infact, Shehzada Parvez was married to a daughter of Sultan Murad (another fact which in consistent across the Jahangirnamas 😉). Akbar's children had much better upbringing when you compare them to the subsequent generations of Mughal emperors and the horrors they indulged in to take the throne.

And how do you know for sure that the consistent parts are absolutely reliable? When a part of the whole is fabricated, the rest too is subject to suspicion, consistent or not.

Also, Jehangir did not need too fight for the throne or kill his brothers. They were both dead even before the question of accession came up, when Akbar was alive and ruling. He did revolt against his father and infact set the example that was subsequently followed by his successors.

He might have been fairer and more broad minded than his successors, but I only compared him to Akbar. Akbar, inspite of his torn childhood and having been brought up by MA and BK, was more liberal, more enterprising, more intelligent, more capable, more people-oriented. Whatever be his attachment to his wives, he never let them rule on his behalf and he never took refuge in opium to the distraction of his duties. The kind of respect and fondness that Akbar had for his own father, his mother HB, even MA (till he learnt of her evil), Jehangir never had for Akbar who doted on him. Jehangir blinded his own son for revolting against him, while his own father had been more liberal to him. Akbar had infact forgiven even the likes of Abul Mali and Shariffuddin.

As for the upbringing of the other two sons of Akbar is concerned, didn't they both die of excessive alcohol? None of Akbar's three sons were as good or as capable as he himself was.