Average episode - Page 33

Originally posted by: Rak014

no you may be correct...

or ruku might fake it on purpose to prevent ja-jo from consummating...she is not leting any opportunitiy that are coming on her way to go off her hands...now, since she is not getting any, she will create one...

I watched today's episode finally...twice, to make sure that I don't miss any dialogue or expression of the first Jalal-Jo-Rahim scene.

1. Jo getting insulted in public...I hate hate hate it...I am on the same page with most of you. Especially if Ruk or MA are among the audience. However, todays scene was an exception where I can't help but take a pragmatic approach...Because this is about a child who could have been dead or severely disabled for life for no fault of his...Jodha is my favorite character on the show but I am unable to just look at just one aspect of that complex scene which was so much more than just Jalal scolding Jodha.

2. Jalal's reaction- Jalal's reaction was a father's/guardian's outburst...He just witnessed a responsible guardian's worst nightmare. We saw his desperation to save Rahim from hitting the hard ground...He loves Rahim...He married Salima to ensure Rahim's safety and chose to hand over his kingdom to Rahim( not Hakim Mirza) during the religious conversion track...before the shock of Rahim's fall was over, he witnessed Shehnaz laughing and clapping...I have two nephews and can understand where he is coming from...his irritation and anger towards Shehnaz was a normal human reaction to the whole situation...So was his question to Jodha... "You were aware of the fact that she is mentally unstable, why did you let her play with Rahim?" we have to ask ourselves...what are we really upset about? Jalal's questions to Jodha or Ruks commentary in the background?...Take Ruk out of the picture for a minute...then watch Jalal-Jo convo...you will feel that Jalal was justified in reacting the way he reacted...Jo's immidiate response was to defend Shehnaz...I rewinded to listen to her answer again and again...her choice of words was poor and had a tinge of insensitivity for Rahim..."durghatna ke liye hamein khed hai...par iska matlab yeh nahin hai ki Shehnaaz apraadhi hai"...Forget Jalal, I would have erupted like a volcano to this response...The appropriate answer would have been..." I'll make sure that she doesn't do anything to jeopardize Rahim's safety in future"...I think Jalal would have calmed down... she could have chosen a more appropriate moment to defend Shehnaz (Jalal calms down, Rahim playing again, Ruk not present)... Put yourself in Jalal's place...Would you care if a person whose action could have resulted in grievous injury or death of a loved one has a "paavan mann" or not?... That may be important in deciding the punishment but not in deciding that this person needs to be away from our loved one...In the modern world, it is called " involuntary manslaughter" ...He did tell her "you do not understand the gravity of the situation...she cannot roam around freely"...Of course, she can be dangerous again...I have seen mentally unstable people closely...it really does not matter what the intentions were...it their action and its consequence that matters...Two real life examples..

I)A family in the US didn't consent to transferring a very sweet patient with advanced dementia with serious judgment issues to a locked and closely guarded Alzheimer's unit of the hospital (human rights can be pain in the rear end at times)...the little old lady found the paint left in the corridor by a careless painter on a cigarette break...drank it to her hearts content and then generously offered it to her roommate ...both were saved as a doctor happened to be rounding at that time...but the family has to be blamed for not understanding the gravity of the situation in first place despite attempts to make them understand.

II) A US state law prevented (human rights again😡) the physician from reporting a mildly demented patient with poor reflexes to the driving licensing authority...The patient and family repeatedly insisted that only place she drove to was the church on Sundays which was five minutes away. There was a school on the way...two kids were killed before the license could be revoked.

To me, Rahim's safety is the most important factor here...The only complain I have as far as Jalal is concerned...why he hell did he not shut up Ruk and Salima?...All three begums decided to go nuts at the same time.

3. Salima's reaction??? What was that???...I refuse to let my love for Jodha affect my objectivity here...It was ok to defend Jo and explain her POV to Jalal...Her reaction lacked the concern of the mother who could have lost her child...I wish she had told Jalal that she'll talk to Jo and do something so Shehnaz stays away from Rahim.

4. Ruk...no comments...

5. Shehnaz ----a Bachchi or Paagal?( Jodha's eyes)

A. Does it matter? What matters is the consequence of her actions...Going back to my example of the sweet patients...if innocent people can get hurt (intentionally or unintentionally)...something needs to be done.

B. Paagal, mad or crazy are vague terms that include a spectrum of psychiatric diagnosis. Not all mad or crazy people behave like the ones they show in hindi movies from the 70's ...making faces or laughing hysterically...Medicine is not a perfect science( that's why computers can be doctors😉)...they may not have all the textbook features but still be mentally imbalanced. Every case is slightly different from the other...John Nash, the famous Nobel Prize winning scientist from MIT was a schizophrenic...he lead a normal life most of the time but had delusions and hallucinations that KGB, the Soviet intelligence agency was spying on him during cold war.

C. When we say Shehnaz is child like...this diagnosis has a name...Regression...described as a type of defense mechanism by Freud. Regression occurs when a person under stress reverts to behavior characteristic of a younger age. I disagree that she has regression...she exhibits ( pretends to) features of psychosis...and who says psychotic people can't have childlike behavior?...She is not like Rahim ...as Jo and Salima inaccurately suggested...her emotions are inconsistent with external reality. Rahim was shouting for help and Jalal was bang on in noticing that the laughing and clapping was abnormal. We don't have to be pediatricians to be familiar with the milestones with aging in children.. Studies have shown that kids are very perceptive towards potential dangers and threats at a very early age. Rahim has clearly shown that..He is barely 4-5 years old...still detects potential danger. He lied to Jalal during the miscarriage track because of the tone of Jalal's voice...his could sense a threat... He does know right from wrong...knows that stealing is wrong...one of the reasons he didn't want Jo to tell Jalal about stealing the dibbi..He hid from MA ...knew that she is not trustworthy and capable of punishing him...he is perceptive enough to know that Jo left because something was not right...his little brain blamed himself...no more kahani ki zid...Shehnaz is not childlike like Rahim...she was laughing and clapping when Rahim was shouting for help...Rahim in her place would have sensed that something was not right and probably would have been scared ( like most kids his age...we know that there are mean kids but that is abnormal too)...Shehnaz's behavior shows a defect in contact with reality as well as judgement...this is NOT just childlike behavior but abnormal by all definitions. Not fair to compare Shehenaz's behavior with regular kids...or say that kids hurt each other while playing... if the playmate is in trouble( shouting for help) most normal kids would have been nervous... not clap and laugh ...If Jo and Salima couldn't see that...they didn't want to see it. They were too preoccupied with defending Shehenaz. Kids who are seen to exhibit such abnormal and potentially dangerous behavior( irrespective of century) are corrected by teachers and parents and guardians...defending an act that can result in the loss of a life is wrong by all standards...MV and HB reprimand their adult kids for hurting others...Jo and Salima don't want to accept that their bachchi' was at fault. CVs hv been butchering Jo's character for some time...now Salima too??...If Shehnaz's act endangered a child's life...keep her away from that child...should they wait for a second event? Not in my opinion.

D. Options for Shehnaz...Jalal said "usko elaaj ke liye Mathura jaana hoga"...he is not throwing her out on the street like some people fear...he was talking about Todarmal's Ashram...Jodha was not planning to bring Shehnaz with her in first place...Shehnaz manipulated her...If Jo wants, Jalal will ensure all kind of facilities for Shehnaz in Mathura...Or Jo can request Jalal to keep Shehnaz in agra with restrictions. But status quo? Asking for trouble.

6. Positive point...I think that Jo wasn't really upset with Jalal( then why should we be?😉...so chill)...she was just acting like a typical wife who wanted her husband to manaofy her after he scolded her (does it sound familiar my married friends?😉)...had he not left the hojra feeling that she is really upset(men!!!!...give up too soon😡)...she was almost ready to forgive and forget...her expression said it all...😊

7. I don't think Jalal apologized for his stand on Shehnaz...he said hamein afsos hai' for shouting at her and the whole incident...but he didn't say that Shehnaz is innocent or he agrees with Jo( I am glad)...the next epi will tell us for sure. I really hope that he does something to keep her away from our little khanekhana.

My POV...between Jodha's emotions and Rahim's life...I give my vote to Rahim's life. And, irrespective of this incident... Jo-Jalal relationship is getting stronger and going in the right direction. 😃

Originally posted by: Cleo12345

Cleo , I just love reading your posts but these days you have stopped sending PMs...is it coz you are writing less or PMing less?

I watched today's episode finally...twice, to make sure that I don't miss any dialogue or expression of the first Jalal-Jo-Rahim scene.

1. Jo getting insulted in public...I hate hate hate it..me too HATE HATE HATE it.I am on the same page with most of you. Especially if Ruk or MA are among the audience. However, todays scene was an exception where I can't help but take a pragmatic approach...Because this is about a child who could have been dead or severely disabled for life for no fault of his...Jodha is my favorite character on the show but I am unable to just look at just one aspect of that complex scene which was so much more than just Jalal scolding Jodha.To me it looked exactly like a worried family scene and there is no need to view it as a public insult for Jo. Yes it was complex One of the reason being- the family had saved their youngest member and the most loving member was defending the person who was the cause of the calalmity

2. Jalal's reaction- Jalal's reaction was a father's/guardian's outburst...He just witnessed a responsible guardian's worst nightmare. We saw his desperation to save Rahim from hitting the hard ground...He loves Rahim...He married Salima to ensure Rahim's safety and chose to hand over his kingdom to Rahim( not Hakim Mirza) during the religious conversion track...before the shock of Rahim's fall was over, he witnessed Shehnaz laughing and clapping...I have two nephews and can understand where he is coming from...his irritation and anger towards Shehnaz was a normal human reaction to the whole situation...So was his question to Jodha... "You were aware of the fact that she is mentally unstable, why did you let her play with Rahim?" we have to ask ourselves...what are we really upset about? Jalal's questions to Jodha or Ruks commentary in the background?...Take Ruk out of the picture for a minute...then watch Jalal-Jo convo...you will feel that Jalal was justified in reacting the way he reacted.Cleo Ruq these days has become a little more dignified than her earlier avatar and her commentary did not bother me much. she too loves Rahim and was witness to the nightmarish spectacle of a precariously hanging Rahim..Jo's immidiate response was to defend Shehnaz...I rewinded to listen to her answer again and again...her choice of words was poor and had a tinge of insensitivity for Rahim..."durghatna ke liye hamein khed hai...par iska matlab yeh nahin hai ki Shehnaaz apraadhi hai"...Forget Jalal, I would have erupted like a volcano to this response. I hated the fact that she had to defend Shehnaaz this soon , a better response would have been to understand that Shehnaaz definitely wrong and then ask Jalal what he plans...The appropriate answer would have been..." I'll make sure that she doesn't do anything to jeopardize Rahim's safety in future"...I think Jalal would have calmed down... she could have chosen a more appropriate moment to defend Shehnaz (Jalal calms down, Rahim playing again, Ruk not present)... Put yourself in Jalal's place...Would you care if a person whose action could have resulted in grievous injury or death of a loved one has a "paavan mann" or not?... That may be important in deciding the punishment but not in deciding that this person needs to be away from our loved one...In the modern world, it is called " involuntary manslaughter" ...He did tell her "you do not understand the gravity of the situation...she cannot roam around freely"...Of course, she can be dangerous again...I have seen mentally unstable people closely...it really does not matter what the intentions were...it their action and its consequence that matters...Two real life examples..

I)A family in the US didn't consent to transferring a very sweet patient with advanced dementia with serious judgment issues to a locked and closely guarded Alzheimer's unit of the hospital (human rights can be pain in the rear end at times)...the little old lady found the paint left in the corridor by a careless painter on a cigarette break...drank it to her hearts content and then generously offered it to her roommate ...both were saved as a doctor happened to be rounding at that time...but the family has to be blamed for not understanding the gravity of the situation in first place despite attempts to make them understand.

II) A US state law prevented (human rights again😡) the physician from reporting a mildly demented patient with poor reflexes to the driving licensing authority...The patient and family repeatedly insisted that only place she drove to was the church on Sundays which was five minutes away. There was a school on the way...two kids were killed before the license could be revoked.

To me, Rahim's safety is the most important factor here...The only complain I have as far as Jalal is concerned...why he hell did he not shut up Ruk and Salima?...All three begums decided to go nuts at the same time.

3. Salima's reaction??? What was that???...I refuse to let my love for Jodha affect my objectivity here...It was ok to defend Jo and explain her POV to Jalal...Her reaction lacked the concern of the mother who could have lost her child...I wish she had told Jalal that she'll talk to Jo and do something so Shehnaz stays away from Rahim.

4. Ruk...no comments...

5. Shehnaz ----a Bachchi or Paagal?( Jodha's eyes)

A. Does it matter? What matters is the consequence of her actions...Going back to my example of the sweet patients...if innocent people can get hurt (intentionally or unintentionally)...something needs to be done.

B. Paagal, mad or crazy are vague terms that include a spectrum of psychiatric diagnosis. Not all mad or crazy people behave like the ones they show in hindi movies from the 70's ...making faces or laughing hysterically...Medicine is not a perfect science( that's why computers can be doctors😉)...they may not have all the textbook features but still be mentally imbalanced. Every case is slightly different from the other...John Nash, the famous Nobel Prize winning scientist from MIT was a schizophrenic...he lead a normal life most of the time but had delusions and hallucinations that KGB, the Soviet intelligence agency was spying on him during cold war.

C. When we say Shehnaz is child like...this diagnosis has a name...Regression...described as a type of defense mechanism by Freud. Regression occurs when a person under stress reverts to behavior characteristic of a younger age. I disagree that she has regression...she exhibits ( pretends to) features of psychosis...and who says psychotic people can't have childlike behavior?...She is not like Rahim ...as Jo and Salima inaccurately suggested...her emotions are inconsistent with external reality. Rahim was shouting for help and Jalal was bang on in noticing that the laughing and clapping was abnormal. We don't have to be pediatricians to be familiar with the milestones with aging in children.. Studies have shown that kids are very perceptive towards potential dangers and threats at a very early age. Rahim has clearly shown that..He is barely 4-5 years old...still detects potential danger. ditto for most regular kids..He lied to Jalal during the miscarriage track because of the tone of Jalal's voice...his could sense a threat... He does know right from wrong...knows that stealing is wrong...one of the reasons he didn't want Jo to tell Jalal about stealing the dibbi..He hid from MA ...knew that she is not trustworthy and capable of punishing him...he is perceptive enough to know that Jo left because something was not right...his little brain blamed himself...no more kahani ki zid...Shehnaz is not childlike like Rahim...she was laughing and clapping when Rahim was shouting for help...Rahim in her place would have sensed that something was not right and probably would have been scared ( like most kids his age...we know that there are mean kids but that is abnormal too)...Shehnaz's behavior shows a defect in contact with reality as well as judgement...this is NOT just childlike behavior but abnormal by all definitions. Not fair to compare Shehenaz's behavior with regular kids...or say that kids hurt each other while playing... if the playmate is in trouble( shouting for help) most normal kids would have been nervous... not clap and laugh ...If Jo and Salima couldn't see that...they didn't want to see it. They were too preoccupied with defending Shehenaz. Kids who are seen to exhibit such abnormal and potentially dangerous behavior( irrespective of century) are corrected by teachers and parents and guardians...defending an act that can result in the loss of a life is wrong by all standards...MV and HB reprimand their adult kids for hurting others...Jo and Salima don't want to accept that their bachchi' was at fault. CVs hv been butchering Jo's character for some time...now Salima too??...If Shehnaz's act endangered a child's life...keep her away from that child...should they wait for a second event? Not in my opinion.

D. Options for Shehnaz...Jalal said "usko elaaj ke liye Mathura jaana hoga"...he is not throwing her out on the street like some people fear...he was talking about Todarmal's Ashram...Jodha was not planning to bring Shehnaz with her in first place...Shehnaz manipulated her...If Jo wants, Jalal will ensure all kind of facilities for Shehnaz in Mathura...Or Jo can request Jalal to keep Shehnaz in agra with restrictions. But status quo? Asking for trouble.

6. Positive point...I think that Jo wasn't really upset with Jalal( then why should we be?😉...so chill)...she was just acting like a typical wife who wanted her husband to manaofy her after he scolded her (does it sound familiar my married friends?😉)...had he not left the hojra feeling that she is really upset(men!!!!...give up too soon😡)...she was almost ready to forgive and forget...her expression said it all...😊

7. I don't think Jalal apologized for his stand on Shehnaz...he said hamein afsos hai' for shouting at her and the whole incident...but he didn't say that Shehnaz is innocent or he agrees with Jo( I am glad)...the next epi will tell us for sure. I really hope that he does something to keep her away from our little khanekhana.Yup

My POV...between Jodha's emotions and Rahim's life...I give my vote to Rahim's life. And, irrespective of this incident... Jo-Jalal relationship is getting stronger and going in the right direction. 😃

Originally posted by: Cleo12345

I watched today's episode finally...twice, to make sure that I don't miss any dialogue or expression of the first Jalal-Jo-Rahim scene.

1. Jo getting insulted in public...I hate hate hate it...I am on the same page with most of you. Especially if Ruk or MA are among the audience. However, todays scene was an exception where I can't help but take a pragmatic approach...Because this is about a child who could have been dead or severely disabled for life for no fault of his...Jodha is my favorite character on the show but I am unable to just look at just one aspect of that complex scene which was so much more than just Jalal scolding Jodha.

2. Jalal's reaction- Jalal's reaction was a father's/guardian's outburst...He just witnessed a responsible guardian's worst nightmare. We saw his desperation to save Rahim from hitting the hard ground...He loves Rahim...He married Salima to ensure Rahim's safety and chose to hand over his kingdom to Rahim( not Hakim Mirza) during the religious conversion track...before the shock of Rahim's fall was over, he witnessed Shehnaz laughing and clapping...I have two nephews and can understand where he is coming from...his irritation and anger towards Shehnaz was a normal human reaction to the whole situation...So was his question to Jodha... "You were aware of the fact that she is mentally unstable, why did you let her play with Rahim?" we have to ask ourselves...what are we really upset about? Jalal's questions to Jodha or Ruks commentary in the background?...Take Ruk out of the picture for a minute...then watch Jalal-Jo convo...you will feel that Jalal was justified in reacting the way he reacted...Jo's immidiate response was to defend Shehnaz...I rewinded to listen to her answer again and again...her choice of words was poor and had a tinge of insensitivity for Rahim..."durghatna ke liye hamein khed hai...par iska matlab yeh nahin hai ki Shehnaaz apraadhi hai"...Forget Jalal, I would have erupted like a volcano to this response...The appropriate answer would have been..." I'll make sure that she doesn't do anything to jeopardize Rahim's safety in future"...I think Jalal would have calmed down... she could have chosen a more appropriate moment to defend Shehnaz (Jalal calms down, Rahim playing again, Ruk not present)... Put yourself in Jalal's place...Would you care if a person whose action could have resulted in grievous injury or death of a loved one has a "paavan mann" or not?... That may be important in deciding the punishment but not in deciding that this person needs to be away from our loved one...In the modern world, it is called " involuntary manslaughter" ...He did tell her "you do not understand the gravity of the situation...she cannot roam around freely"...Of course, she can be dangerous again...I have seen mentally unstable people closely...it really does not matter what the intentions were...it their action and its consequence that matters...Two real life examples..

I)A family in the US didn't consent to transferring a very sweet patient with advanced dementia with serious judgment issues to a locked and closely guarded Alzheimer's unit of the hospital (human rights can be pain in the rear end at times)...the little old lady found the paint left in the corridor by a careless painter on a cigarette break...drank it to her hearts content and then generously offered it to her roommate ...both were saved as a doctor happened to be rounding at that time...but the family has to be blamed for not understanding the gravity of the situation in first place despite attempts to make them understand.

II) A US state law prevented (human rights again😡) the physician from reporting a mildly demented patient with poor reflexes to the driving licensing authority...The patient and family repeatedly insisted that only place she drove to was the church on Sundays which was five minutes away. There was a school on the way...two kids were killed before the license could be revoked.

To me, Rahim's safety is the most important factor here...The only complain I have as far as Jalal is concerned...why he hell did he not shut up Ruk and Salima?...All three begums decided to go nuts at the same time.

3. Salima's reaction??? What was that???...I refuse to let my love for Jodha affect my objectivity here...It was ok to defend Jo and explain her POV to Jalal...Her reaction lacked the concern of the mother who could have lost her child...I wish she had told Jalal that she'll talk to Jo and do something so Shehnaz stays away from Rahim.

4. Ruk...no comments...

5. Shehnaz ----a Bachchi or Paagal?( Jodha's eyes)

A. Does it matter? What matters is the consequence of her actions...Going back to my example of the sweet patients...if innocent people can get hurt (intentionally or unintentionally)...something needs to be done.

B. Paagal, mad or crazy are vague terms that include a spectrum of psychiatric diagnosis. Not all mad or crazy people behave like the ones they show in hindi movies from the 70's ...making faces or laughing hysterically...Medicine is not a perfect science( that's why computers can be doctors😉)...they may not have all the textbook features but still be mentally imbalanced. Every case is slightly different from the other...John Nash, the famous Nobel Prize winning scientist from MIT was a schizophrenic...he lead a normal life most of the time but had delusions and hallucinations that KGB, the Soviet intelligence agency was spying on him during cold war.

C. When we say Shehnaz is child like...this diagnosis has a name...Regression...described as a type of defense mechanism by Freud. Regression occurs when a person under stress reverts to behavior characteristic of a younger age. I disagree that she has regression...she exhibits ( pretends to) features of psychosis...and who says psychotic people can't have childlike behavior?...She is not like Rahim ...as Jo and Salima inaccurately suggested...her emotions are inconsistent with external reality. Rahim was shouting for help and Jalal was bang on in noticing that the laughing and clapping was abnormal. We don't have to be pediatricians to be familiar with the milestones with aging in children.. Studies have shown that kids are very perceptive towards potential dangers and threats at a very early age. Rahim has clearly shown that..He is barely 4-5 years old...still detects potential danger. He lied to Jalal during the miscarriage track because of the tone of Jalal's voice...his could sense a threat... He does know right from wrong...knows that stealing is wrong...one of the reasons he didn't want Jo to tell Jalal about stealing the dibbi..He hid from MA ...knew that she is not trustworthy and capable of punishing him...he is perceptive enough to know that Jo left because something was not right...his little brain blamed himself...no more kahani ki zid...Shehnaz is not childlike like Rahim...she was laughing and clapping when Rahim was shouting for help...Rahim in her place would have sensed that something was not right and probably would have been scared ( like most kids his age...we know that there are mean kids but that is abnormal too)...Shehnaz's behavior shows a defect in contact with reality as well as judgement...this is NOT just childlike behavior but abnormal by all definitions. Not fair to compare Shehenaz's behavior with regular kids...or say that kids hurt each other while playing... if the playmate is in trouble( shouting for help) most normal kids would have been nervous... not clap and laugh ...If Jo and Salima couldn't see that...they didn't want to see it. They were too preoccupied with defending Shehenaz. Kids who are seen to exhibit such abnormal and potentially dangerous behavior( irrespective of century) are corrected by teachers and parents and guardians...defending an act that can result in the loss of a life is wrong by all standards...MV and HB reprimand their adult kids for hurting others...Jo and Salima don't want to accept that their bachchi' was at fault. CVs hv been butchering Jo's character for some time...now Salima too??...If Shehnaz's act endangered a child's life...keep her away from that child...should they wait for a second event? Not in my opinion.

D. Options for Shehnaz...Jalal said "usko elaaj ke liye Mathura jaana hoga"...he is not throwing her out on the street like some people fear...he was talking about Todarmal's Ashram...Jodha was not planning to bring Shehnaz with her in first place...Shehnaz manipulated her...If Jo wants, Jalal will ensure all kind of facilities for Shehnaz in Mathura...Or Jo can request Jalal to keep Shehnaz in agra with restrictions. But status quo? Asking for trouble.

6. Positive point...I think that Jo wasn't really upset with Jalal( then why should we be?😉...so chill)...she was just acting like a typical wife who wanted her husband to manaofy her after he scolded her (does it sound familiar my married friends?😉)...had he not left the hojra feeling that she is really upset(men!!!!...give up too soon😡)...she was almost ready to forgive and forget...her expression said it all...😊

7. I don't think Jalal apologized for his stand on Shehnaz...he said hamein afsos hai' for shouting at her and the whole incident...but he didn't say that Shehnaz is innocent or he agrees with Jo( I am glad)...the next epi will tell us for sure. I really hope that he does something to keep her away from our little khanekhana.

My POV...between Jodha's emotions and Rahim's life...I give my vote to Rahim's life. And, irrespective of this incident... Jo-Jalal relationship is getting stronger and going in the right direction. 😃

Originally posted by: history_geek

It was a good episode overall. I went through many pages here. Who was wrong and who was correct.?. I have no 100% answer to this question. In such a situation i expect, Jalal to get angry. And, i wanted Jodha to give some "fatkaar" to Shehnaaz. BUT, She was NOT defending Shenaaz, she just wanted Jalal to listen to her, which he was not ready to do, as he was in anger. And, in such times we get angry, and nothing WRONG in it. ( Tell me who won't get angry.. But, he was NOT angry with Jodha, he was angry with Shehnaz. Jodha tried to interrupt and "Gone with the Wind" moment happened with her.!. 😉 But, she LEFT WITHOUT arguing with HIM. Did u notice.?. ) . Anyways, Salima Begum saved saved the situation(acting as a cool and AMAZINGLY composed lady. ). And, even if she had not given her piece of mind to Jalal, then also Jalal would have understood.!!.

BTW, Does the incident yesterday by any means proves that Jodha or Salima love Rahim less than anyone/ or less than their OWN child .?.😕 Did they ever say, Shehnaaz was correct. They ONLY said - Shehnaaz is LIKE a KID. What good will be done by acting in such a manner with a KID.

Footnote:😉
( FOUND SOMETHING and I want this to be a future track .!. Though grim chances.!. )

This is An exactly similar case, and the conditions of the person under consideration are similar to Shehnaz. 😆 (This is REAL history.)

I don't know if the CV's will show, " that " track or not , but Hamida Bano Begum was also at the same cross-roads "Once Upon A Time"😉 in her Life, like Jodha was with Sujamal, and had to decided in the right manner.?. 😉


But i know, CV's ALWAYS and ALWAYS will show ONLY Jodha at the receiving end. And, they won't show that track. If they show it, we can get a VERY GOOD comparison of Jodha's acts vis-a-vis HB. 😉 And, can clear MISCONCEPTIONS how EVEN the Best Queens ACTED at times.!.

Thnx for Update. The emoticons are missing.!!!!!. The last scene was awesome yesterday. 😊

Originally posted by: Cleo12345

I watched today's episode finally...twice, to make sure that I don't miss any dialogue or expression of the first Jalal-Jo-Rahim scene.

1. Jo getting insulted in public...I hate hate hate it...I am on the same page with most of you. Especially if Ruk or MA are among the audience. However, todays scene was an exception where I can't help but take a pragmatic approach...Because this is about a child who could have been dead or severely disabled for life for no fault of his...Jodha is my favorite character on the show but I am unable to just look at just one aspect of that complex scene which was so much more than just Jalal scolding Jodha.

2. Jalal's reaction- Jalal's reaction was a father's/guardian's outburst...He just witnessed a responsible guardian's worst nightmare. We saw his desperation to save Rahim from hitting the hard ground...He loves Rahim...He married Salima to ensure Rahim's safety and chose to hand over his kingdom to Rahim( not Hakim Mirza) during the religious conversion track...before the shock of Rahim's fall was over, he witnessed Shehnaz laughing and clapping...I have two nephews and can understand where he is coming from...his irritation and anger towards Shehnaz was a normal human reaction to the whole situation...So was his question to Jodha... "You were aware of the fact that she is mentally unstable, why did you let her play with Rahim?" we have to ask ourselves...what are we really upset about? Jalal's questions to Jodha or Ruks commentary in the background?...Take Ruk out of the picture for a minute...then watch Jalal-Jo convo...you will feel that Jalal was justified in reacting the way he reacted...Jo's immidiate response was to defend Shehnaz...I rewinded to listen to her answer again and again...her choice of words was poor and had a tinge of insensitivity for Rahim..."durghatna ke liye hamein khed hai...par iska matlab yeh nahin hai ki Shehnaaz apraadhi hai"...Forget Jalal, I would have erupted like a volcano to this response...The appropriate answer would have been..." I'll make sure that she doesn't do anything to jeopardize Rahim's safety in future"...I think Jalal would have calmed down... she could have chosen a more appropriate moment to defend Shehnaz (Jalal calms down, Rahim playing again, Ruk not present)... Put yourself in Jalal's place...Would you care if a person whose action could have resulted in grievous injury or death of a loved one has a "paavan mann" or not?... That may be important in deciding the punishment but not in deciding that this person needs to be away from our loved one...In the modern world, it is called " involuntary manslaughter" ...He did tell her "you do not understand the gravity of the situation...she cannot roam around freely"...Of course, she can be dangerous again...I have seen mentally unstable people closely...it really does not matter what the intentions were...it their action and its consequence that matters...Two real life examples..

I)A family in the US didn't consent to transferring a very sweet patient with advanced dementia with serious judgment issues to a locked and closely guarded Alzheimer's unit of the hospital (human rights can be pain in the rear end at times)...the little old lady found the paint left in the corridor by a careless painter on a cigarette break...drank it to her hearts content and then generously offered it to her roommate ...both were saved as a doctor happened to be rounding at that time...but the family has to be blamed for not understanding the gravity of the situation in first place despite attempts to make them understand.

II) A US state law prevented (human rights again😡) the physician from reporting a mildly demented patient with poor reflexes to the driving licensing authority...The patient and family repeatedly insisted that only place she drove to was the church on Sundays which was five minutes away. There was a school on the way...two kids were killed before the license could be revoked.

To me, Rahim's safety is the most important factor here...The only complain I have as far as Jalal is concerned...why he hell did he not shut up Ruk and Salima?...All three begums decided to go nuts at the same time.

3. Salima's reaction??? What was that???...I refuse to let my love for Jodha affect my objectivity here...It was ok to defend Jo and explain her POV to Jalal...Her reaction lacked the concern of the mother who could have lost her child...I wish she had told Jalal that she'll talk to Jo and do something so Shehnaz stays away from Rahim.

4. Ruk...no comments...

5. Shehnaz ----a Bachchi or Paagal?( Jodha's eyes)

A. Does it matter? What matters is the consequence of her actions...Going back to my example of the sweet patients...if innocent people can get hurt (intentionally or unintentionally)...something needs to be done.

B. Paagal, mad or crazy are vague terms that include a spectrum of psychiatric diagnosis. Not all mad or crazy people behave like the ones they show in hindi movies from the 70's ...making faces or laughing hysterically...Medicine is not a perfect science( that's why computers can be doctors😉)...they may not have all the textbook features but still be mentally imbalanced. Every case is slightly different from the other...John Nash, the famous Nobel Prize winning scientist from MIT was a schizophrenic...he lead a normal life most of the time but had delusions and hallucinations that KGB, the Soviet intelligence agency was spying on him during cold war.

C. When we say Shehnaz is child like...this diagnosis has a name...Regression...described as a type of defense mechanism by Freud. Regression occurs when a person under stress reverts to behavior characteristic of a younger age. I disagree that she has regression...she exhibits ( pretends to) features of psychosis...and who says psychotic people can't have childlike behavior?...She is not like Rahim ...as Jo and Salima inaccurately suggested...her emotions are inconsistent with external reality. Rahim was shouting for help and Jalal was bang on in noticing that the laughing and clapping was abnormal. We don't have to be pediatricians to be familiar with the milestones with aging in children.. Studies have shown that kids are very perceptive towards potential dangers and threats at a very early age. Rahim has clearly shown that..He is barely 4-5 years old...still detects potential danger. He lied to Jalal during the miscarriage track because of the tone of Jalal's voice...his could sense a threat... He does know right from wrong...knows that stealing is wrong...one of the reasons he didn't want Jo to tell Jalal about stealing the dibbi..He hid from MA ...knew that she is not trustworthy and capable of punishing him...he is perceptive enough to know that Jo left because something was not right...his little brain blamed himself...no more kahani ki zid...Shehnaz is not childlike like Rahim...she was laughing and clapping when Rahim was shouting for help...Rahim in her place would have sensed that something was not right and probably would have been scared ( like most kids his age...we know that there are mean kids but that is abnormal too)...Shehnaz's behavior shows a defect in contact with reality as well as judgement...this is NOT just childlike behavior but abnormal by all definitions. Not fair to compare Shehenaz's behavior with regular kids...or say that kids hurt each other while playing... if the playmate is in trouble( shouting for help) most normal kids would have been nervous... not clap and laugh ...If Jo and Salima couldn't see that...they didn't want to see it. They were too preoccupied with defending Shehenaz. Kids who are seen to exhibit such abnormal and potentially dangerous behavior( irrespective of century) are corrected by teachers and parents and guardians...defending an act that can result in the loss of a life is wrong by all standards...MV and HB reprimand their adult kids for hurting others...Jo and Salima don't want to accept that their bachchi' was at fault. CVs hv been butchering Jo's character for some time...now Salima too??...If Shehnaz's act endangered a child's life...keep her away from that child...should they wait for a second event? Not in my opinion.

D. Options for Shehnaz...Jalal said "usko elaaj ke liye Mathura jaana hoga"...he is not throwing her out on the street like some people fear...he was talking about Todarmal's Ashram...Jodha was not planning to bring Shehnaz with her in first place...Shehnaz manipulated her...If Jo wants, Jalal will ensure all kind of facilities for Shehnaz in Mathura...Or Jo can request Jalal to keep Shehnaz in agra with restrictions. But status quo? Asking for trouble.

6. Positive point...I think that Jo wasn't really upset with Jalal( then why should we be?😉...so chill)...she was just acting like a typical wife who wanted her husband to manaofy her after he scolded her (does it sound familiar my married friends?😉)...had he not left the hojra feeling that she is really upset(men!!!!...give up too soon😡)...she was almost ready to forgive and forget...her expression said it all...😊

7. I don't think Jalal apologized for his stand on Shehnaz...he said hamein afsos hai' for shouting at her and the whole incident...but he didn't say that Shehnaz is innocent or he agrees with Jo( I am glad)...the next epi will tell us for sure. I really hope that he does something to keep her away from our little khanekhana.

My POV...between Jodha's emotions and Rahim's life...I give my vote to Rahim's life. And, irrespective of this incident... Jo-Jalal relationship is getting stronger and going in the right direction. 😃

Originally posted by: elasingh

Cleo we are no where saying that Jallu is wrong in showing concern for rahim...What we object too was doing it in public and even if he could not control his anger in public at least he could have stopped ruku ...He knows very well now abt Ruku's involvement in saazish against Jo and still he is letting her interfeare...

But dear you are completely sympathising with Jallu for reacting but forgetting that Jo too was reacting too in fear and and was defensive...we all answer like this when first blow of blame come...We dont stop to search for right words...that part comes later...

When HB asked Rahim then rahim clearly said that Shenu was snatching dolls and he fell down...why did Jallu assume that Shenu pushed him? Becoz the truth is she did not...

Now please dont forget that once Jallu ordered that Shenu will have to leave Agra . Jo quietly left the room to make preparations...

Frankly I am proud that Jo is not willing to abondon Shenu just like that...We as a society are always very insensitive to such ppl...and Jallu no where said that he will make some alternative arrangements for shenu...