Another paigam from Jodha to Jalal ... thankfully read by Moti! - Page 11

Originally posted by: jyoti06

Mansi grt take 👏👏👏 .. I was expecting more fireworks from the episode with Jalal going all restless for Jodha but it seems CVs want to save it all for Friday mayb and then show the high points next week to compete with IPL matches 🤔

Loved the letter of Jodha for few reasons ...

First she wrote about the age old issue of how always a women's character comes under scrutiny but men r never questioned 👍🏼 .. I wrote the same thing in my take when that last friday episode aired .. Why always women had to answer in yes and no and why Jalal was never questioned about spending time with Benazir despite hving so many legal begums in his harem .. just because he is a man and has that right while women cannot hv their desires ? .. So I hope Jalal thinks on this particular aspect in her letter ... What has hurt Jodha most is the fact that Jalal doubted her character ..

Second she reminded him in her letter how this marriage was forced on her and though she married out of force despite not loving him but she never loved anyone else too , thus proving her loyalty as Rajvanshi 👍🏼...I mentioned this too in my post last friday about how Jalal can forget that she was forced into this marriage , so on what grounds he is questioning her when they dont even share a normal husband-wife relation

And last but not the least ,Jodha made her stand clear on why she is leaving , its because she is simply obeying the orders of her Shehenshah who asked her to leave 👍🏼

I m glad whatever points I raised last friday were there in Jodha's letter and now Jalal gets time to ponder on all these points and do the damage control when he meets her in jungle

Also it seems Moti was not part of Jalal's dream .. She planned to leave always after getting the news from Moti that both Jalal and Sujamal r safe because it was the question of her self-respect .. 👍🏼
moti was indeed part of jalal's dream as jalal met suja after sunrise ,also all MU got cleared after that but in today's episode they showed jodha leaving at night

Ruqaiyya is going back and forth in this case .. she still wants to play fair and does not find happiness by unfair means but at the same time she never fails to fall for Maham's tricks either 😕... can she get her own brains back plss ?? ... Maham seems to b playing a good victim of sorts who has no idea about Sujamal 😡

Jodha is in some village it seems where villagers r not happy with pilgrimage tax 😕.. errr I hope its not repeat of similar track where Jalal comes in disguise again and does all social service instead of romancing Jodha 😕😆... I mean I dont mind Jalal doing social service too as he got to transform into Akbar now but Romance is equally important to manafoy his wife na 😛😆... And I hope Ruqaiyya dont tag along with Jalal like last time 😡😡


Anyways it seems Jalal today will go looking out for Jodha all thanks to Salima's right advice while Ruqaiyya continues to fume as usual 😆


About consummation spoilers , better not to read them and get hopes high and then cry foul ... we will take it as and when it comes 😆

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Mansi,

Amidst all the anti-Jodha tirade following her leaving the palace, yours is the one sane and balanced analysis of her actions. There are a few other posts in defence of Jodha but they are not as detailed as yours. Well done!

The most important thing for me is that till Jalal came and blasted her, she had no idea whatsoever that Jalal had seen her with Sujamal and he was starting to mistrust her. She had asked him a few times what his problem was but he had not taken those chances to clear the matter. Rather, he kept expecting with the ego of a husband that she should come to him of her own volition and tell him everything.

From Jodha's POV, she was only meeting her brother and not doing anything wrong. The only wrong thing, according to her, was that Sujamal was accused falsely of being a traitor. She was only trying to clear her brother's name and also save her husband's life. She had promised her brother she wouldn't say anything to Jalal. She may also have realized that it would be better not to say anything to Jalal about the saazish on his life till she had some concrete proof because he was not believing her and he may inadvertently put the would-be-assassin on alert.

(The letter doesn't touch upon why she met Sujamal or the threat to Jalal's life. It is focused only on her relationship with Jalal, which is as it should be. I just wish a little though she had mentioned in passing that he was suspecting her when she was trying to safeguard him, whereas he trusted those who were trying to harm him.)

Under such circumstances, why would she go to him and what would she say to him? So there was really no fault of Jodha in the whole scenario. Jalal was not at much fault either but he was misled by circumstances and MA and his own swaying emotions.

Most of all, both kept thinking the other would and should trust them blindly, which is almost never the case in reality. Esp in their case, when the trust is still nascent and there are a number of people ready to drive a wedge between them. The Jodha who wrote this letter and the Jalal who spoke up to her, both of them would have done better not to have waited for things to get so bad before at least confessing their feelings for each other. But that is now water under the bridge.

When Jodha has done no wrong, why should she apologise? She has sensed one thing, which is that every time something goes wrong in their marriage, Jalal will get distanced from her. In the end, he may apologize and may treat her every wish as his command for a few days. But the cycle repeats. Somewhere a wife has to take a call. That's what I wanted to know in my post too - whether Jodha would be able to trust Jalal after this track. The answer is clear. Her trust has been broken. Even now, Jalal may be able to convince her of his love and bring her back and they may even consummate their marriage. But in a small corner of her heart, she will still wonder whether Jalal really trusts her. Her trust will not return till he proves it in similar trying circumstances next time. (maybe Shehnaz track ?)

(Outside people can only see that he treats her as a dainty princess, only those very close to her can see how he also mistreats her in private.)

(Consummation of marriage and love/trust are entirely different. No couple waits for 100% love/trust to get intimate. Even after having children, couples continue to misunderstand and fight.)

Forumwasis may ask why should Jalal always seek forgiveness and why should he prove his trust? When will Jodha prove her love and trust? My answer is Jodha is a living, breathing testimony of love and trust for him. Right since the time he distanced himself from BB, she has been with him emotionally and mentally. She has trusted him and his every decision since then, in every track.

She has proved her love for him by not just drinking poison. But innumerable other acts. She saved his marriage with Ruqaiyya. (Ruq would have simply let the marriage end if the positions of Jodha and Ruq had been reversed.) She brought him close to his people and made him a part of his awaam. She removed his rose-tinted glasses and made him face reality, whether in the child-marriage or the slavery cases. She supported his desire to go incognito to Salim Chisti's even when her health was fragile.
• Even in this particular track, she was only trying to unmask his enemy within the palace.

(Why she should be named Devi or Mata for exposing harsh truths is beyond me. Nor does it show Jalal as incompetent. A king is only as wise as his advisers. His advisers had been hiding many truths from him and had even isolated him in an ivory tower. Just because Jodha brought him out of there, back to his people, doesn't make her a devi or him a fool. It makes them equal partners in running an empire.)

The letter in no way sounds like a "moral science lecture" to me, as it has been termed by some. You are right in saying that just because Jodha isn't shouting her heart out doesn't lessen her love in any way. By nature, she is a self-effacing person and rarely expresses her feelings. Even in Amer, she rarely spoke of her own feelings with anyone much, except maybe Moti and to an extent, Sukanya.

Another question doing the rounds is why Jalal needs someone to tell him to bring Jodha back. Jodha has spelt out very clearly in her letter that she doesn't wish to return. If he brings her back forcibly, he will get a queen but not his wife. This is holding him back. He needs assurance from someone like SB and his mother that he can bring back his Jodha if he tries hard enough.

About Ruq: She is not all selfishness with no heart. She still has some bit of fairness in her that makes her uncomfortable when things go too extreme. She is a few steps short of becoming MA.

PS: A 16th century royal couple whose marriage was arranged, would rarely confess lovey-dovey feelings directly. If we see olden movies based on royal families, we can see how formal and dignified they are even in private. We can't expect them to jump and run towards each other and start kissing and singing love songs.

PPS: Sorry Mansi for giving a "bhashan" on your thread. 😳

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Mansi,

Amidst all the anti-Jodha tirade following her leaving the palace, yours is the one sane and balanced analysis of her actions. There are a few other posts in defence of Jodha but they are not as detailed as yours. Well done!

The most important thing for me is that till Jalal came and blasted her, she had no idea whatsoever that Jalal had seen her with Sujamal and he was starting to mistrust her. She had asked him a few times what his problem was but he had not taken those chances to clear the matter. Rather, he kept expecting with the ego of a husband that she should come to him of her own volition and tell him everything.

From Jodha's POV, she was only meeting her brother and not doing anything wrong. The only wrong thing, according to her, was that Sujamal was accused falsely of being a traitor. She was only trying to clear her brother's name and also save her husband's life. She had promised her brother she wouldn't say anything to Jalal. She may also have realized that it would be better not to say anything to Jalal about the saazish on his life till she had some concrete proof because he was not believing her and he may inadvertently put the would-be-assassin on alert.

(The letter doesn't touch upon why she met Sujamal or the threat to Jalal's life. It is focused only on her relationship with Jalal, which is as it should be. I just wish a little though she had mentioned in passing that he was suspecting her when she was trying to safeguard him, whereas he trusted those who were trying to harm him.)

Under such circumstances, why would she go to him and what would she say to him? So there was really no fault of Jodha in the whole scenario. Jalal was not at much fault either but he was misled by circumstances and MA and his own swaying emotions.

Most of all, both kept thinking the other would and should trust them blindly, which is almost never the case in reality. Esp in their case, when the trust is still nascent and there are a number of people ready to drive a wedge between them. The Jodha who wrote this letter and the Jalal who spoke up to her, both of them would have done better not to have waited for things to get so bad before at least confessing their feelings for each other. But that is now water under the bridge.

When Jodha has done no wrong, why should she apologise? She has sensed one thing, which is that every time something goes wrong in their marriage, Jalal will get distanced from her. In the end, he may apologize and may treat her every wish as his command for a few days. But the cycle repeats. Somewhere a wife has to take a call. That's what I wanted to know in my post too - whether Jodha would be able to trust Jalal after this track. The answer is clear. Her trust has been broken. Even now, Jalal may be able to convince her of his love and bring her back and they may even consummate their marriage. But in a small corner of her heart, she will still wonder whether Jalal really trusts her. Her trust will not return till he proves it in similar trying circumstances next time. (maybe Shehnaz track ?)

(Outside people can only see that he treats her as a dainty princess, only those very close to her can see how he also mistreats her in private.)

(Consummation of marriage and love/trust are entirely different. No couple waits for 100% love/trust to get intimate. Even after having children, couples continue to misunderstand and fight.)

Forumwasis may ask why should Jalal always seek forgiveness and why should he prove his trust? When will Jodha prove her love and trust? My answer is Jodha is a living, breathing testimony of love and trust for him. Right since the time he distanced himself from BB, she has been with him emotionally and mentally. She has trusted him and his every decision since then, in every track.

• She has proved her love for him by not just drinking poison. But innumerable other acts.
• She saved his marriage with Ruqaiyya. (Ruq would have simply let the marriage end if the positions of Jodha and Ruq had been reversed.)
• She brought him close to his people and made him a part of his awaam.
• She removed his rose-tinted glasses and made him face reality, whether in the child-marriage or the slavery cases.
• She supported his desire to go incognito to Salim Chisti's even when her health was fragile.
• Even in this particular track, she was only trying to unmask his enemy within the palace.

(Why she should be named Devi or Mata for exposing harsh truths is beyond me. Nor does it show Jalal as incompetent. A king is only as wise as his advisers. His advisers had been hiding many truths from him and had even isolated him in an ivory tower. Just because Jodha brought him out of there, back to his people, doesn't make her a devi or him a fool. It makes them equal partners in running an empire.)

The letter in no way sounds like a "moral science lecture" to me, as it has been termed by some. You are right in saying that just because Jodha isn't shouting her heart out doesn't lessen her love in any way. By nature, she is a self-effacing person and rarely expresses her feelings. Even in Amer, she rarely spoke of her own feelings with anyone much, except maybe Moti and to an extent, Sukanya.

Another question doing the rounds is why Jalal needs someone to tell him to bring Jodha back. Jodha has spelt out very clearly in her letter that she doesn't wish to return. If he brings her back forcibly, he will get a queen but not his wife. This is holding him back. He needs assurance from someone like SB and his mother that he can bring back his Jodha if he tries hard enough.

About Ruq: She is not all selfishness with no heart. She still has some bit of fairness in her that makes her uncomfortable when things go too extreme. She is a few steps short of becoming MA.

PS: A 16th century royal couple whose marriage was arranged, would rarely confess lovey-dovey feelings directly. If we see olden movies based on royal families, we can see how formal and dignified they are even in private. We can't expect them to jump and run towards each other and start kissing and singing love songs.

PPS: Sorry Mansi for giving a "bhashan" on your thread. 😳

Originally posted by: history_geek

His words were rough, aggressive, berating, whiplashing ... and yet it was an expression of his love that brought the anger to the surface and tinged his words with harshness. Her words are passive, soft, resigned and reconciled to her state of affairs, and yet they too are an expression of love that has brought silent suffering to the surface and tinged her words with the wetness of fresh tears.

Can we conclude from the way he was harsh and the way she was passive that he feels more love for her than she does for him?


That would not be fair, for the language of love should not be judged by how strongly worded it is or how strongly felt the sentiments are. There is a saying that "Calm passions are not necessarily weak, nor violent ones strong. There is love in rough words and a lashing tongue as there is love in rolling tears and in soft whispers."

****************************************************************


Mansi,

Nice points, and nice depiction of Jodha's feelings. You have already said that Jalal's words were rough. And, on the other hand her words were, soft.

Really liked your Lines in Green above.
How can we compare the "LOVE" of one was MORE or LESS than the other one.?.


She can NOT/NEVER express herself like the way Jalal did. That won't mean that, love of one is less or more. Being rude and being silent, both are extremes. Love means total absence of fear, which was MISSING IN BOTH.(It will be NOW that they will overcome this fear). Love asks no questions. Its natural state is one of extension and of expansion, NOT comparison and measurement. What lies behind you and what lies in front of you, PALES in COMPARISON to what lies INSIDE YOU. 😊

She blamed herself for not been able to create "bharosa" about herself in Jalal's mind.!!!. Wasn't that an acknowledgement on her part.. Jalal is ready to apologize, and she too acknowledged a shortcoming in their relationship.

All points well-said, expressing her state.
It was a fine epsisode, though i may be in minority thinking so.😉

Originally posted by: harrybird

Hi Mansi,

Wonderful post!...I love your optimism👏👏👏

precise and concise post! (by your standard)

Nowadays, I m waiting for your post eagerly more than the actual episode...😃😃😃

One of the smartest moves Jodha seems to have made, despite her state of mind is to ensure that no one but Jalal got the letter and no one but Moti read it to him. Does this not suggest, folks, that Jodha has by now become fully aware of the treachery around Jalal that she cannot trust him to get the true message via anyone else in the palace? She has chosen not even to trust Salima or Hamida in this issue, but only her own Moti. Salima and Hamida, she must have known, would try to dissuade her from taking the ultimate decision, whereas Moti would do just as she was told without volunteering or forcing her opinion on Jodha.

I dont think so...this is what I feel...

1. Jo has written the letter in hindi not urdu!!! ( she is still learning urdu from Rahim)...she would have thought that Jalal could speak hindi but not read/write hindi

2. She wanted that letter to be extremely personal...the only person who knows the

whole story other than Jo-Ja is moti (according to her...she was not aware that Ruqs-MA knows as well)

what do u think???

Originally posted by: 111192

Reasoning which most of jodha basher use is that the serial is giving all the credit to jodha for all the achievements of jalal and this is great injustice to Akabar...but my question is what if in reality jodha really changed jalal to great extend...so isn't it that till now no credit was given to jodha when she deserved equal credit as jalal...just because she was a woman so her contribution was not recorded or was distorted.