IP REDUX; Fables !!! Edited on Pg. 1[NOTE pg.27]

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supermom1

@supermom1

Explorer

Posted: 13 years ago

#331

Doods, in million years I would have never been able to link all these fable stories to the episode. Really hats off to you. Fabulous analysis and how you connected each of the story to the episode. I am going to call you "GuruJI". YOu are just amazing and am totally impressed with your knowledge. The only part I could figure was when she said that : yeh ladai Bhariya or hiren ki hai" but I did not understand which story she was talking about as I had head about the fox and the lamb and the other thing was that seeing Khushi attempting for suicide would push Arnav to edge and he will blurt out the reason behing the marriage. Maybe when asked by Arnav khushi might tell him that she thought that he wanted to kill her and then get married to Lavanya. Arnav who actually loves khushi will totally lose his brain and spill out the truth. Now the question arises is how much truth will be brought forward. If Arnav just tells her that he knows about her and Shyam relation and nothing else., then khushi will think he knows about the engagement. But if he tells something more than that like accusing of her of breaking his sister's home then she will be shocked. She will try to tell him the entire story but he may not believe her. So my question is will then Khushi let her family know about this or will she just keep quiet. Arnav may not believe her but he should start to investigate to get to the bottom of this.

Would definitely like to know about the two stories you are waiting upon and how do they fit in this track. Also you mentioned that Shyam's truth will be out sometime around Diwali...so does that mean that all the Raizada's will come to know about him or will that day be his :Judgement Day which would be perfect around Dussehra time that's when Lord Rama killed Ravana and came back to his kingdom after 14 years.

Thanks once again for the fabulous explanation of the track. Every single day I eagerly wait for you post to understand what the PH wanted to show in reality.

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--Anna--

@--Anna--

Sparkler

+ 5

Posted: 13 years ago

#332

Nia,

I went through your analysis and I do get it how you are trying to justify Khushi's suicide attempt. No one here believes that she would have jumped but what is important is that the thought even crossed her mind. That is not Khushi

Yes Khushi is under tremendous amount of mental pressure - she is hiding her pain - she is not getting her answers - arnav's behavior is erratic and most importantly she is in misunderstanding that he wants to kill her. No doubt any girl would be in any tremendous pressure. But the point is - Is this Khushi!? The Khushi who would die trying but not give up herself!? NO!

Khushi does NOT give up! And if I am to look at it - she got her supposed answer to why Arnav married her - wrong but she did! Now what Khushi who threw the resignation on Arnav's face stating - Humari zindagi ki keemat aapki nazaron mein kuch nahi hogi - par humare and humare chahne waalon keliye bahut keemti hai - That Khushi would go behind Arnav and trouble him to an extent to make him confess his motives. She would fight back not resign. Khushi is a fighter - sometimes I do not like the way she does it - but she fights! And do I really want to believe that she was going to give up her life or her family for the man who thinks she is worthless!? (In her opinion). No - That is not Khushi. That is Hypocrisy and Khushi is not a hypocrite in ANY situation!

We all know that she would have not jumped off - but it is the thought that hurts. The thought that the girl who teaches courage - decided to jump off for a guy who she thinks does not value her. If it was momentary it would have been acceptable. But it just kept stretching. And really Nia, even though u have explained it well - but understanding Khushi's suicide mission is not very easy for a layman. For a layman she is nothing but stupid.

Edited by --Anna-- - 13 years ago

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Nadia

@naddiya26

Sparkler

+ 8

Posted: 13 years ago

#333

Originally posted by: Omoraboti

Two lessons I think CVs are trying to give the general viewers. 1) dont take everything on face value: I am now pretty sure they have intentionally not shown Khushi's inner turmoil to us often. We have loved the bubbly, crazy girl and never realized how damaged she actually has been in the process. 2) communication is the key: any relationship needs clear & timely communication to flourish & survive. Period.

These are just what hit me as a general viewer ... I just love integrating your analysis with my general views & feelings! Hoping for a great ride ahead. :)

loved your point of view , mine is if your faith on GOD is lost you do such things

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vishakha1

@vishakha1

Beginner

Posted: 13 years ago

#334

Hey Nia,

Loved your POV very much... Thinking from this angle, Khushi's behaviour doesn't seem OTT..

Thank you so much for penning it down..

Waiting eagerly for your Part II ...

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karan456

@karan456

Beginner

Posted: 13 years ago

#335

Originally posted by: --Anna--
Nia,

I went through your analysis and I do get it how you are trying to justify Khushi's suicide attempt. No one here believes that she would have jumped but what is important is that the thought even crossed her mind. That is not Khushi

Yes Khushi is under tremendous amount of mental pressure - she is hiding her pain - she is not getting her answers - arnav's behavior is erratic and most importantly she is in misunderstanding that he wants to kill her. No doubt any girl would be in any tremendous pressure. But the point is - Is this Khushi!? The Khushi who would die trying but not give up herself!? NO!

Khushi does NOT give up! And if I am to look at it - she got her supposed answer to why Arnav married her - wrong but she did! Now what Khushi who threw the resignation on Arnav's face stating - Humari zindagi ki keemat aapki nazaron mein kuch nahi hogi - par humare and humare chahne waalon keliye bahut keemti hai - That Khushi would go behind Arnav and trouble him to an extent to make him confess his motives. She would fight back not resign. Khushi is a fighter - sometimes I do not like the way she does it - but she fights! And do I really want to believe that she was going to give up her life or her family for the man who thinks she is worthless!? (In her opinion). No - That is not Khushi. That is Hypocrisy and Khushi is not a hypocrite in ANY situation!

We all know that she would have not jumped off - but it is the thought that hurts. The thought that the girl who teaches courage - decided to jump off for a guy who she thinks does not value her. If it was momentary it would have been acceptable. But it just kept stretching. And really Nia, even though u have explained it well - but understanding Khushi's suicide mission is not very easy for a layman. For a layman she is nothing but stupid.

Very well said Mate! Khushi DOES NOT GIVE UP! That is what forms Khushi! She fights and yesterday I would have wanted to see her fight Arnav's supposed murderous attempts than give up and think of going and commiting a suicide. She should have fought back. To me it seemed like she wanted to give her life up because Arnav wanted to kill her. If she would want to suicide because she was tired of everything, then it would have made sense.

Comedy is good but we have seen the serious Khushi and this time we need seriousness and not comedy. It was a really wrong message sent out and more so totally not who Khushi actually is. Loved your take on the first page as well!

Cheers!

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Nia

@Nia.D

Voyager

+ 5

Posted: 13 years ago

#336

Originally posted by: --Anna--
Nia,

I went through your analysis and I do get it how you are trying to justify Khushi's suicide attempt. No one here believes that she would have jumped but what is important is that the thought even crossed her mind. That is not Khushi

Yes Khushi is under tremendous amount of mental pressure - she is hiding her pain - she is not getting her answers - arnav's behavior is erratic and most importantly she is in misunderstanding that he wants to kill her. No doubt any girl would be in any tremendous pressure. But the point is - Is this Khushi!? The Khushi who would die trying but not give up herself!? NO!

Khushi does NOT give up! And if I am to look at it - she got her supposed answer to why Arnav married her - wrong but she did! Now what Khushi who threw the resignation on Arnav's face stating - Humari zindagi ki keemat aapki nazaron mein kuch nahi hogi - par humare and humare chahne waalon keliye bahut keemti hai - That Khushi would go behind Arnav and trouble him to an extent to make him confess his motives. She would fight back not resign. Khushi is a fighter - sometimes I do not like the way she does it - but she fights! And do I really want to believe that she was going to give up her life or her family for the man who thinks she is worthless!? (In her opinion). No - That is not Khushi. That is Hypocrisy and Khushi is not a hypocrite in ANY situation!

We all know that she would have not jumped off - but it is the thought that hurts. The thought that the girl who teaches courage - decided to jump off for a guy who she thinks does not value her. If it was momentary it would have been acceptable. But it just kept stretching. And really Nia, even though u have explained it well - but understanding Khushi's suicide mission is not very easy for a layman. For a layman she is nothing but stupid.

Hey Anna, I understand your frustration with the depiction of Khushi's character, I too do not like the way they are handling her character. Much as I defend Khushi, I would like to say (to everyone) that I would defend any character on this show whose character is being portrayed in a lame angle, as long as I have enough basis and reasonable logic to back their actions. So, tomorrow if Arnav or even Shyam comes under a flood of rotten eggs by the viewers, I would defend them as much as possible. (I am not just a Khushi supporter, I love IPKKND as a whole.)

Now that that's done, to lay my side of the matter Anna, I know (and almost everyone else knows too) that right now the writers, CV's whoever are handling Khushi's character are doing it in a way to suit the tracks requirement. They need to show Arnav telling Khushi that he knows about Shyam-Khushi relationship, and they are using her character to push the story along as hers is the most flexible character. Everyone else has designated characteristics. Anjali - the whiny-clingy doll-face, Shyam - the good-turned-evil-pest, Nani-the stern-yet-kind-matriarch, Mami - the honest-clown.. well, you get the gist. Khushi however has been shown as a mature yet child-like girl, innocent yet witty person.. I had written her characteristics in one of my posts, wait will get the link...

One was on the Normal Khushi vs. Circumstance Khushi which explains why Khushi is no longer the same Khushi: https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/55695471

Yeah, found the other one, this is an excerpt from the second post (IP REdux: All at Sea) on Khushi's behaviour: "Our old Khushi was naiive yet smart, silly yet clever, a regular clown yet witty, sensitive yet firm, child-like yet mature, crazy yet sensible, obedient yet rebellious (mostly with Arnav), respectful yet frank... you can add more to this list. Our current Khushi however, has been tainted harshly by the circumstances (I had written a post on this some days back - Natural Khushi vs. Circumstance Khushi, see end of this post for the link if reference is required). To give a brief outline, Natural Khushi vs. Circumstance Khushi was to depict the difference in Khushi's character before marriage and after marriage. Her original qualities have been overshadowed now by new qualities that go against the basic nature of Khushi as we have known her."

The above posts will show you how they have altered Khushi's personality a bit... unlike them leaving the basics of the other characters of the show majorly untouched. They actually have a very good reason behind all this, and since you said that you are upset by the 'thought' of Khushi contemplating suicide, you need to know:

I have friends, very dear, very close who were just like Khushi. Full of life, upto pranks all the time, cheering everyone up, totally full of zest for life, strong minds, practical minds, sharp thinking and good rationalization abilities too. However, they underwent some serious life challenging situations (love life, family life..) and the change in them was astonishingly scary!

I don't think that I would be able to express exactly how broken and how disoriented their state of minds became. Whatever practicality, rationality and intelligent thinking they had possessed was no longer there. Vanished suddenly. All their confidence, their problem solving abilities, whatever little sane thinking they had till then - there was no trace of any of that. All optimism, all good sense, all clever thinking, fun-loving, happiness, love for life - all were lost. And it shakes the nerve to see anyone in such a dangerous position.

It was extremely difficult to believe that such optimistic, get-going in life kind of people could wither away and contemplate suicide. It was good that they confided in me and other friends - we helped them get out of it - major task it is to drive any sense into suicidal prone people at such times - but we did.

So Anna, what I'm trying to say is, that this is very much real. Such things happen in this world, it is possible, it has happened and there are people who are victims of such delusions and problems. It is a reality and the recent spate of suicides happening in India is proof enough to see how it attacks people.

You'll be wondering why Khushi never thought of telling anyone bout Arnav's killing plan, right? Well, she could do that of course, but stand in Khushi's place - she feels that no one will believe her because they won't understand on what basis she claims that Arnav is out to kill her. To her, they will put it down to her sanka-deviness, they'll label it as one of her crazy episodes and think it's one of her pranks as usual.

As for confronting Arnav about it - when he's after her blood, according to her, she won't confront him because of the reasons I stated in my post. Arnav has never answered any of her point-blank questions, so why will he do that now? (according to Khushi this is). She's in a delusional state, she's been pushed to the brink of her sanity, she no longer knows how to cope with the situation.

To end, i agree with you that to a lay man it is stupid of Khushi, and it is the CV's and writers responsibility to ensure that they deliver the message, or the feelings of Khushi (in this case) in an appropriate manner. The execution is seriously bad, people are getting the wrong notion that Khushi is not serious, that she doesn't understand the huge seriousness of her act - and that's why I feel really bad for her character, because it is not being portrayed in the way it should be.

Or, I'm placing my faith in the CV's here, they are purposely showing us a lighter side of it so that when they do show her inner turmoil later, when the truth is out, redemption is on etc, it is then that they will drive the intensity of Khushi's deep hurt and make us cry bucket-loads in the process.

P.S: To the others who have commented about my post - will get to you in a while, need to wrap up some work first.

And yeah, have changed my username to Nia.D... Sea-Nymph was sounding a bit comical to me, wonder what made me come up with that name! 😃 Anyway, please call me Nia now on.. Thanks!

Edited by Nia.D - 13 years ago

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Maria

@JRia

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#337

Originally posted by: bs_si

Hi Doodleberry'I'm Trina. First of all can I say you guys are so amazing with your analysis👏 Every time I watch an episode I can't wait to come to the forum to read REDUX. As you have already pointed out so many times, for some reason their execution of the storyline is just pathetic and we need brains like yours to decipher them for ignorant minions like me.

Anyways I'm from Bangladesh but live in Sydney and as soon as you said 'Thakurmar Jhuli', my ears pricked up. For the life of me I could never have connected the storyline to Fables, but that's why you are brilliant. My dida used to tell me all these stories so they are sort of etched in my memory for lifetime😊 I can help you with 'The Curse of the Needle Story' which is Kakonmala Kanchonmala in Bangla.

The story is as follows, there were a prince and a shepherd who were best friends. Prince promised that when he becomes king he will make shepherd his minister/ lieutenant (montri). Then the prince became king and married Kanchonmala, but he did not remember his friend and broke his promise. One day the shepherd came to see the king and queen but the doorman did not even let him in so he was heartbroken and went away. The next morning the king woke up and he had thousands of needles all over his body. He couldn't open his eyes; even his hair was full of needles!!! King couldn't talk, eat or sleep and he realized that it is because of his broken promise. But he couldn't talk so he couldn't express himself. The kingdom started going downhill, the queen was managing somehow. One day the queen went take a bath in the river where a female asked if she wanted a servant. Queen said if you can get rid the king's needles then I will take you. The female agreed and the queen bought her with one of her bangles, thus the name Kakonmala I guess for the servant. Then the servant tricked her and took all her clothes and jewelry so Kakonmala became queen and Kachonmala the queen became her servant. The king could not know anything as he could not see. But there was no one to take care of him anymore. One day the queen went to wash clothes near the river and saw a man sitting there with a lot of threads and he wanted a lot of needles. The queen talked to the guy and said I can give you lots of needles but you have to pluck them out. The guy got up with his bundle of threads. On the way to the palace the queen told the man her sad story. The man listened very quietly and only said OK. Back in the palace there was a festival of cakes (pithas) and both the fake and real queens (Kakonmala and Kanchonmala) went to make them. Kanchonmala the real queen made beautiful cakes whereas the fake queen could not make them properly and everyone realized that she is a fake queen. But the fake queen Kakonmala got really angry and called for the headsman. The headsman caught the real queen and the guys with the threads. But that guy opened his bundles and asked the threads 'threads whom do you belong to?' The threads replied 'whoever has got the bundle'. The he asked the threads to tie up the Headsman and the threads tied up the Headsman. Then he asked the threads to find the needles on the king and all the threads went and attached to all the needles on the King. Then the threads asked where should they go and the man told them to go to the fake queens eyes and mouth. So the fake queen's eyes and mouth got stitched up. The king opened his eyes and recognized the thread man as his long lost shepherd friend. The king cried and apologized to his friend and made him his lieutenant. The fake queen Kakonmala died from her injuries. And the King, queen and the friend lived happily ever after.

Hope it helps. Now you can use that wonderful brain of yours and decipher it for us😊 I remember the Brahmon Brahmoni story as well but don't think its relevant here. Pretty sure there is no Ringing Bell story in Thakurmar Jhuli. Let me know if you need any of the other stories.

Thank u for sharing this story with us

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--Anna--

@--Anna--

Sparkler

+ 5

Posted: 13 years ago

#338

Nia,

Again I totally understand what your point is and to a certain extent I get it. Believe me when I say this - there have been times when I myself have thought about giving up on life and with Khushi's predicament I understand her situation. Now the normal v/s circumstancial Khushi - that is a definitely a good way to bring in Khushi's change in behavior - but frankly I do not see any change in her persay. Initially I could feel it - but not now. Her antics have been similar to what it has been in the past - just gone a one notch higher - nevertheless its not reached a stage where she would act upon it. Like I said the momentary thought would be better but acting upon it is not Khushi.

As for your friends - Hope all is good with them now though. But then tell me something did you feel their depression when they went through that stage. Khushi has still not been pushed that far where she should ACT on it and contemplate it to an extent of drafting a will! She is a drama queen - but giving up - she did not give up even in the current circumstances - she fought and fought like anything - she made life pretty hell for Arnav - so why now!? And more so when till today she does value her life!?

I did not even ponder once on why Khushi did not ask Arnav - because I would be stupid to even think that - but why dint she punish Arnav the way she has been doing to get the truth out!? She does not need to ask anyone directly - she just needed to irritate him to know what his motives are. And if she was convinced from his supposed attempts - she should have fought! I do not find any change in her character Nia - except that she has become a bit Over the top - she has remained perfectly much the same. She was fighting her battle and she should have continued.

More so - chalo 1% I will agree with u that she is done with all of it - but where is it. Did you even see her thinking that she was done with every crap Arnav has thrown at her and she needs to end her life!? No - na! In my opinion she has yet not reached that state where she should have to give up. She is NOT in depression yet -the day she will reach that stage she can go ahead - but she is not as of now - because somewhere down she knows that Arnav can be trusted.

P.S : I hope you are right about the redemption and the reason why its all on a lighter note now - however I will still say a wrong message by sending Khushi to suicide. I know I will cry bucket loads for Arnav when the truth comes out and his redemption starts because I really do not have high hopes from the writers to show Khushi repenting - but I know Arnav will make us cry buckets. Hope to see that from Khushi too!

Edited by --Anna-- - 13 years ago

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Nia

@Nia.D

Voyager

+ 5

Posted: 13 years ago

#339

Originally posted by: --Anna--
Nia,

Again I totally understand what your point is and to a certain extent I get it. Believe me when I say this - there have been times when I myself have thought about giving up on life and with Khushi's predicament I understand her situation. Now the normal v/s circumstancial Khushi - that is a definitely a good way to bring in Khushi's change in behavior - but frankly I do not see any change in her persay. Initially I could feel it - but not now. Her antics have been similar to what it has been in the past - just gone a one notch higher - nevertheless its not reached a stage where she would act upon it. Like I said the momentary thought would be better but acting upon it is not Khushi.

As for your friends - Hope all is good with them now though. But then tell me something did you feel their depression when they went through that stage. Khushi has still not been pushed that far where she should ACT on it and contemplate it to an extent of drafting a will! She is a drama queen - but giving up - she did not give up even in the current circumstances - she fought and fought like anything - she made life pretty hell for Arnav - so why now!? And more so when till today she does value her life!?

I did not even ponder once on why Khushi did not ask Arnav - because I would be stupid to even think that - but why dint she punish Arnav the way she has been doing to get the truth out!? She does not need to ask anyone directly - she just needed to irritate him to know what his motives are. And if she was convinced from his supposed attempts - she should have fought! I do not find any change in her character Nia - except that she has become a bit Over the top - she has remained perfectly much the same. She was fighting her battle and she should have continued.

More so - chalo 1% I will agree with u that she is done with all of it - but where is it. Did you even see her thinking that she was done with every crap Arnav has thrown at her and she needs to end her life!? No - na! In my opinion she has yet not reached that state where she should have to give up. She is NOT in depression yet -the day she will reach that stage she can go ahead - but she is not as of now - because somewhere down she knows that Arnav can be trusted.

Haaahaa Anna, the above is all because of the depiction of Khushi's character.. That is one major flaw that they have done - they haven't driven that sense of desperation level that Khushi has reached.

She is very much in depression Anna, but they are not putting that 'on/in our face' - or Sanaya is not bringing that out - I don't know which one it is. As for Khushi being a fighter, like I said in my post, Arnav lets his heart/emotions take over his mind only when faced with his loved ones facing death - the CV's want him all rattled up and ready to spill the truth when his emotional guard is down - this is possible only if Khushi is faced with a life-threatening situation, and in the limited time that they get to write the script, they came up with this suicide idea. Ab hum kya kar sakte hai if they want to go this way! Bas dekho aur analysis karo 😃

See, mere saath toh, I always like exploring the human psyche, the way the mind works, one psychology addict I am - I have read study cases and all (during college days - need to brush up on them now) and I keep analyzing human emotions, reactions, behaviour and all - so to me, I can sense how Khushi has lost all her 'fighting spirit' even if they don't drive that essence through her character. And I get it when others fail to see it because well, they're not as whacko as me 😃

Your points are extremely good ones and the writers, CV's need to have such questions as yours to be pushed under their noses so that they can see how much the audience is missing out on - the subtelty of Khushi's racked up emotions need to be shown now and then, instead of just showing it in a comic light. A balance needs to be there.

And your last line here echoes my sentiments in the last lines of my own post -- that Khushi would not have jumped even if Arnav hadn't gone to save her - thanks for expressing why she wouldn't have done it !

Thanks for asking about my friends, they are fine now (their incidents happened years back) 😊

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--Anna--

@--Anna--

Sparkler

+ 5

Posted: 13 years ago

#340

Hahaha! Chalo finally we can come to a conclusion! :D

That is what I say - it is not easy to decipher what Khushi feels! Trust me if Redux was not there na - I would have been going round and round thinking what is wrong with this girl!? I really do not like it when they mess up Khushi's character to bring that change and movement in the story. It irritates me to hell.

And the writers do not realize that the sypathy Has shifted from Khushi to Arnav. With Arnav Barun portrays it so well that you can feel the pain whatsoever - but with Khushi no feeling is understood. I know Khushi is damaged from inside because of all this - but we need to be shown that!! Frankly with the way her character has been shown - the marriage should have been the biggest blow and sent her off to depression then and there. But no - they turned into such a way that Khushi is presumed to be the 'mad' girl and Arnav the 'hurt' boy. Sympathy for Khushi needs to be generated asap!

Good chatting with you :)

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IP REDUX; Fables !!! Edited on Pg. 1[NOTE pg.27] - Page 34

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