Dharmakshetra on Epic channel #4/ DT Nt pg 3 - Page 25

Brishti start anything here na, mai to hun 😉

aur main bhi hun. kis baarein mein charchaa karenge ab???

Friends why not we start some different topic, say development in Krishna-Arjun friendship 😊 or any line of Geeta, or any particular lesson from MB?

my lesson from MB, don't take any pratigyas.

OK let me express my view regarding pratiggya thing, as brother Arijit raised that topic 😆
Taking an oath is a good thing but you have to be sure that the oath does not prevent you to do a greater good. Bhishma's oath was not wrong. But not breaking it for the sake of other's good, i.e, to protect someone, was wrong. See, Vasudev too took an oath to handover his all newborns to Kamsa, but just imagine what would have happened if he did not break that oath for once? Where would we get our Krishna? 😊 So, my understanding is: taking oath is good as long as you are not causing anybody's grief due to your personal Dharma. But when the conflict arises between personal Dharma and universal Dharma, then one must choose the universal one.
Personal Dharma (swadharma) < Universal Dharma
That's why Krishna asked Yudhishthir to utter that half lie to save soldiers' lives from Drona's brahmastra. But you see, it was the same Yudhi who did not want to break his truth during exile, and Krishna supported that. Then is God teaching us to lie or cheat? NEVER! If that was His intention then He did not support Yudhi's decision not to break exile-truth. If Yudhi broke that truth then it would be for his own swarth, to get kingdom back or taking revenge. But when he broke truth to save several lives then it was not for his personal interest but for other's good, and for Dharma's victory. So that was not a sin. Thus Krishna's message becomes clear to us: "Don't lie or cheat to satisfy your personal self-interest, but DO it if it is needed to protect someone from a greater danger!" That means, you cannot cheat in an Exam hall or lie to someone to hide your flaw (satisfying personal interest) but you have to do it when it comes to a greater cause.
Krishna described it beautifully with examples in Karna Parva, I'm just copy-pasting from His teachings 😆

Originally posted by: Maverick_me

Kunti is Bhishma's daughter in law so Kunti's son Karna will surely be his grandson..

Karna need not say that Krishna was telling a lie , however if you read Udyoga parva 141 KMG Karna corrects him and acknowledges that Adiratha reared him so he is son of Adiratha and Radha and he cannot deny them a Pinda/ final oblations.. read citation below:

"Karna said, 'Without doubt, O Kesava, thou hast said these words from thy love, affection, and friendship for me, as also in consequence of thy desire of doing me good, O thou of Vrishni's race. I know all that thou hast said unto me. Morally, I am the son of Pandu, as also in consequence of the injunctions of the scriptures, as thou, O Krishna, thinkest. My mother, while a maiden, bore me in her womb, O Janardana, through her connection with Surya. And at the command of Surya

p. 272

himself, she abandoned me as soon as I was born. Even thus, O Krishna, I came into the world. Morally, therefore, I am the son of Pandu. Kunti, however, abandoned me without thinking of my welfare. The Suta, Adhiratha, as soon as he beheld me, took me to his home, and from her affection for me, Radha's breasts were filled with milk that very day, and she, O Madhava, cleansed my urine and evacuations. How can one like us, conversant with duties and ever engaged in listening to scriptures deprive her of her Pinda? So also Adhiratha of the Suta class regardeth me as a son, and I too, from affection, always regard him as (my) father. O Madhava, that Adhiratha, O Janardana, from paternal affection caused all the rites of infancy to be performed on my person, according to the rules prescribed in the scriptures. It is that Adhiratha, again, who caused the name Vasusena to be bestowed upon me by the Brahmanas. When also I attained to youth, I married wives according to his selections.

Krishna only mentions that Karna was Kanina son of PanDu and Karna corrects him saying "Kanina but abandoned son of Pandu and since Adiratha found and reared him , he/Karna was legally the son of Adiratha and Radha that is what Bhishma yudi convo says (Anushasan Parva 48-49)

Read what Krishna says udyoga parva 140 KMG: He stops at morally you're son of Pandu but does not mention 'abandonment'

"Vasudeva said, 'O son of Radha, thou hast worshipped many Brahmanas fully conversant with the Vedas. With concentrated attention and mind free from envy thou hast also (on many an occasion) enquired of them after truth. Thou knowest, therefore, O Karna, what the eternal saying of the Vedas are. Thou art also well-versed in all the subtle conclusions of the scriptures. It is said by those conversant with the scriptures that the two kinds of sons called Kanina and Sahoda that are born of a maiden, have him for their father who weddeth the maid. Thou, O Karna, hast been born in this way. Thou art, therefore, morally the son of Pandu. Come, be a king, according to the injunction of the scriptures. On the side of thy father, thou hast the sons of Pritha, on the side of thy mother, thou hast the Vrishnis, (for thy kinsmen). O bull among men, know that thou hast these two for thy own. Proceeding this very day with me hence, O sire, let the Pandavas know thee as a son of Kunti born before Yudhishthira. The brothers, the five Pandavas, the son of Draupadi, and the invincible son of Subhadra, will all embrace thy feet. All the kings and princes, again, that have been assembled for the Pandava-cause, and all the Andhakas and Vrishnis, will also embrace thy feet

hmm but Maverick Bhishma is kunti's father in law not father.I mane he is connected to kunti because of pandu

Kunti's father thinking of Karna as his grandson because he is Kunti's son is understandable

But for father in law the son of his son will be grandson especially in that daY and age .Relationship with daughter in law isn't direct but through the son

So if Bhishma thinks of Karna as his grandson as per ordinance it atleast to me means he considers' him pandu's son.Another man's son wont his grandson.

Regarding Karna citation yes of course he considers himself Adiratha's son only and refuses to abandon him but discussion was what if karna did abandon Adiratha or Adiratha abandoned Karna the what?Karna refuses to live as pandu's son that is clear but the very fact that krishna ji offer's karna the tHrone is because krishna ji knows karna's claim on throne is strong if he abandons adiratha and becomes pandu's son.But karna refused for that

see my point is krishna ji says that your are son of pandu to which karna agrees as he knows as per rule this is true but since he was abandoned he refuses to accept it and chooses to live as adiratha's son only

In short what i am trying to say is that had Karna accepted Krishna ji offer and abandoned Adiratha or vice versa then his claim on the throne was strong not perfect though but strong.

Originally posted by: ashne

^^^ Even I don't believe Krishna picked Yudhi, because of any of his personal virtues, But then what could have been the reason, then?

What I understood, was Krishna wanted change, he wanted the current system to be destroyed, maybe because the Kings were becoming vain and despicable. He needed support for this and he enlisted the P's in this endeavor, probably bcoz they were more willing to listen to Krishna, unlike the Kauravas. And of course they always strived to do things the right way.

Krishna ji choosing Yudi for what?i mean didnt understand what are we discussing when we say say krishna ji choose yudi?choose yudi for what?

there was no choosing

When Rajsuya yajna happened krishna ji didnt choose Yudi as an emperor.Yudi wanted to be an emperor himself and krishna ji guided him through step one

After that once yudi lost everything and yudi had fulfilled his exile terms then krishna ji just helped yudi to get back what already belonged to him

The condition was that after exile everything yudi lost will be returned to him.Kaurvas refused to fulfill this which was wrong.So krishna ji helped pandvas to get back what was rightfully their's

So krishna ji choosing Yudi for something i didnt understand?

Yudi had a claim on HP and IP and krishna ji just helped Yudi get what was rightfully his

Originally posted by: Adishakti

Can anybody tell me where i can find harivamsa online to read in English

PM Anu she has the link