|| Indian Mythology:: Doubts & Discussions || - Page 17

Dear Vrishji..Thank you very much for the explanation..👏
And yes. Now I remember reading Shruthayudha episode in Mahabharat. Sad that the serials depicted it so filmy..! But Shalya's story is so touching to me..! Haven't heard anyone mentioning it with the same grace. Can feel his helplessness..!! And just think about Nakul and Sahadev's mental trauma. (These are times when any gem of a person would (or should) feel a bit of selfishness. It can be something the same as Kunthi and Yudhishtira would have felt for Karna.

SahasranamaM

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

SahasranamaM

Not to nitpick, but I know the names sound very similar & confusing, but Shrutayudha was a different warrior on the Kaurava side. He had a mace and a boon that anybody he hurled the mace @ would get killed, but if that someone was a non-combatant, the mace would boomerang on him and kill him. On day 14, he was one of the warriors Arjun encountered. He kept attacking Arjun, but Krishna kept making sure that Arjun and his chariot eluded him. Finally, he got frustrated, and in the heat of the moment, hurled that mace @ Krishna. As predicted, it recoiled on him & slew him and Arjun continued to penetrate the Kaurava lines even deeper.

Actually, Shalya's aspect is one that pisses me off about the story. I can understand Bheeshma, Drona, Kripa, Bhurishrava feeling helpless that they had to fight in the Kaurava side, but Shalya went there due to his loyalties towards Pandu, and yet he had to betray him. I sympathize w/ him. It would have been good had he been killed on day 1 itself, maybe by Uttar, so that he didn't have to agonize over it much. Incidentally, the way he was killed by Yudhisthir was not much different from the way Abhimanyu was killed - the Pandavas surrounded and disarmed him, and then Yudhisthir sent his javelin @ him & slew him. The serials make it look like a 1-1 combat, which it wasn't.

P.S. No need to address me as -ji 😆

Well noted Ji..😉

Doubt Regarding story of Vathapi and Agasthya..

We are all aware of the story in which sage Agastya ate Vatapi, brother of the wicked Asura, Illvala and digested him forever. My doubt is nothing connected with the story/logic. It is just something regarding the eating habits of those days.

What we have been taught right from childhood days is that Rishis/sages only depends fruits, leaves and water to live. However, Vatapi's story is like he being transformed to a goat is killed by Illvala, chopped, cooked and fed to the guests (Brahmins). Once the meal is complete, he bursts out from their stomach. They have practiced the same for long and had killed above 100s of Brahmins. The same I head in ACK, watched in Jai Hanuman and many other related references.

How come these rishis/sages accept his invitation and swallow meat? Or is it like none are aware of the meat content in the meal? Though Agasthya digested Vatapi, I just can't digest the story since even today there are vegans (mostly among the Brahmins) who aren't comfortable even with the smell of meat/fish (Though a non-Brahmin, me too belong to the same category)..

It's a myth that brahmans, rishis and other sages of that era were vegetarians. There is plenty of instances where they had meat, and animal sacrifices were an integral part of the menu. E.g. the famous Ashwamedha Yagnas - what do you think happened to the horse after it was sacrificed? Its meat was cooked, distributed & eaten.

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

It's a myth that brahmans, rishis and other sages of that era were vegetarians. There is plenty of instances where they had meat, and animal sacrifices were an integral part of the menu. E.g. the famous Ashwamedha Yagnas - what do you think happened to the horse after it was sacrificed? Its meat was cooked, distributed & eaten.

Vegetarianism as a key ingredient of rishis was something that only started w/ the advent of Jainism & Buddhism. There is nothing in ancient Hindu scriptures that advocates that. On the contrary, just as people are supposed to keep getting reborn until they are liberated from the cycles of birth & death, similarly, when animals were slaughtered for food, it would assure them that their next life would be that of humans, and similarly progressing up the food chain.

This is one problem - a lot of people today project the way dharma is practiced today to the way it was practiced in ancient times. Not even close. Let's say, 50-100 years from now, people go from being vegetarians to being vegans, people will then start denying that Krishna ate butter, and either rewrite the books, or claim that they're wrong.

It's fine to be vegetarian for whatever reason - being animal lovers, or culinary preferences or any other. It's wrong to attribute that to something that's not factually established, particularly in ancient times.

Thanks for the reply Vrish..Of course...Yagnas and Yagas had sacrifices.. But we can never come into a conclusion that they were and cooked and served. But I liked the joke regarding Krishna and Butter..😃 This is where different versions of the same work ultimately misguide people..!! Unfortunately we have no control over it.

SahasranamaM, I remember reading this somewhere but not sure of the source.

It was after Vatapi-Ilvala incident that Sage Aghasthya said that Brahmans consuming meat would lead them to hell - I don't know whether it was a vow or a threat or a curse - probably the latter - he just said that any Brahman or a person who practices the Vedas is prohibited from eating meat.

Similarly, it was after Sukracharya was revived by Kachcha, he swore/ordered/cursed that any Brahman who consumes alcohol will be doomed or go to hell.

I think it may have started then.


By the way, does anyone know Vatapi and Ilvala's parentage? I read that they were sons of Ajamukhi (Surapadma's sister) and Durvasa. Any mention of them in the versions without Surapadma?


Regarding Shalya, it was his duty to devote himself fully as he would have to the Pandavas to the Kauravas. But I thought he promised Yudhishtra that he would slight Karna when he becomes his charioteer as an apology for for joining the Kauravas. I don't what really know happened after Shalya found out that he was tricked - was he angry or upset? Did he really meet up with Yudhishtra and speak as shown in most of the serials?

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

SahasranamaM, I remember reading this somewhere but not sure of the source.

It was after Vatapi-Ilvala incident that Sage Aghasthya said that Brahmans consuming meat would lead them to hell - I don't know whether it was a vow or a threat or a curse - probably the latter - he just said that any Brahman or a person who practices the Vedas is prohibited from eating meat.

Similarly, it was after Sukracharya was revived by Kachcha, he swore/ordered/cursed that any Brahman who consumes alcohol will be doomed or go to hell.

I think it may have started then.


By the way, does anyone know Vatapi and Ilvala's parentage? I read that they were sons of Ajamukhi (Surapadma's sister) and Durvasa. Any mention of them in the versions without Surapadma?


Regarding Shalya, it was his duty to devote himself fully as he would have to the Pandavas to the Kauravas. But I thought he promised Yudhishtra that he would slight Karna when he becomes his charioteer as an apology for for joining the Kauravas. I don't what really know happened after Shalya found out that he was tricked - was he angry or upset? Did he really meet up with Yudhishtra and speak as shown in most of the serials?

Dear Vibhishan,

Thanks for the reply. And thanks for the point. Even I too strongly believe that consuming meat wasn't anything that was ignoble. I remember reading somewhere the extracts of Skanda Purana where the same (Ajamukhi and Durvasa's sons). Anyhow, it is one among the best stories from the Puranas as far as I am concerned. I just would like to pray Agasthya whenever my stomach gets upset..😆

Doubt regarding Shoorpanakha..

I know that her husband was killed by Ravana. But don't remember reading much about her son. Can anyone give me more details? Did he accompany Shoorpankha and her brothers in Dandakaranya? Was he killed along with Khara Dooshanas?

Who all believe that Shoorpanakha, who neither had any lust towards Rama nor jealousy towards Sita, played all this game just to take revenge against Ravana for making her a widow?

Originally posted by: SahasranamaM

Doubt regarding Shoorpanakha..

I know that her husband was killed by Ravana. But don't remember reading much about her son. Can anyone give me more details? Did he accompany Shoorpankha and her brothers in Dandakaranya? Was he killed along with Khara Dooshanas?

Who all believe that Shoorpanakha, who neither had any lust towards Rama nor jealousy towards Sita, played all this game just to take revenge against Ravana for making her a widow?

From what I know, Shurpanakha's husband was killed by Ravana after the latter discovered his schemes for obtaining power and declaring war against Ravana himself. In a moment of rage, Ravana killed his brother-in-law. When Shurpanakha came crying to him, he regretted his actions but consoled his sister saying he had to do it.

He sent Shurpanakha to Dandakaranya where their cousins Khara and Dusha reigned to help her get over her misery.

Shurpanakha's son was residing in the Dandaka Forests doing severe penances to please Indra or Lord Brahma - don't remember which. A divine being (Yaksha or Deva - not sure again) gave Lakshman a new weapon saying it held immense power. Lakshman decided to try it out on a dilapidated hut and was aghast to find blood gush out after a few seconds. It was the same hut where Shurpanakha's son was dong penance.


Shurpanakha bent on revenge went forth to where Ram, Lakshman and Sita were residing but fell for the handsome princes.


There are some versions which claim that Shurpanakha instigated Ravan against Ram to bring about his end as revenge for killing her husband. I don't know which version they are.