The hands you take and the hands you leave version 2 part 91in page86

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Christie2017

@Christie2017

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Posted: 7 years ago

#611

Shruthi u r in full fire today. If u r able to write something, u can do that brilliantly today. And believe me I am telling u with utmost sincerity from the bottom of my heart. 1st today's review and then ur take on Padmavat. I also remember that poem:

Sahe waar par waar anth tak; ladi veer bala si: Khoob Ladi mardaani; woh thi Jhansi wali rani.

I mean other articles also for writing. There r somedays, the pen writes what the mind thinks. I think it is for u today.

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shruthiravi

@shruthiravi

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 7 years ago

#612

@Janas actually for the past couple of days I am fed up receiving whatsapp messages, FB forwards that portray the valour of Padmavati the Rajput queen. And believe me in most groups I have put the same thing. I am boycotting Padmavat not because history is distorted, not because Padmavati is dancing, not because Khilji sees Padmavati dancing in a dream ( I dont know whether this is in movie as most of the initial controversey was regarding that) I am boycotting it as a woman for my sisters and daughters who should never think if there isnt a man to protect their honor they have to die, I want them to fight it out and live in the hearts of the people as a fighter as an inspiration to break the chains.

So the fire I am feeling just came out in words that's it 😃

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dolly

@tiny15

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#613

@shruthi i disagree wid u on padmawat & johar.

i watched the movie & its nice.

and nowhere they glorified sati or johar.

1st of all we hav2 understand the times & enemies then we can say its wrong or rite.

in 13th century i.e medieval ages in general khilji like invaders r not so civil that they will leave u just like.

padamini chose death over 2 bcum a sex slave 2 khilji . wats worng in that?

sita & draupdi cases were/r difft. they needed not 2 do that bcoz they knew ppl wont rape them or make them sex slave like khilji like invaders did.

so judging padmini like women is wrong.

even 2days yajidis women chose death over getting raped or bcuming sex slave 2 ISIS.tho 2day they still cud get justice but we cant judge them or say ist glorificn of suicide.

if they dint johar they wud'd been living worse life than being dead.and 2 me i find movie more than johar .i find it LS of maharawal ratan singh & his beloved queen padmini/padmavati who preferred death 4 her man rather than bcuming sex slave.

why shud padmini/padmavati shud go wid khilji if she dint want 2 .do u think he wud'd left her w/o her protectors like sita or draupdi were left.

watever is the case. its ur POV but judging those women doing johar in those times rather bcuming sex slave of Khilji is 2 harsh .we cant see wat times were those.

sita & draupadi times were difft wen rules & ethics were still followed by pl. there mite b sum omissions but not 2 the extent of those like in medieval ages wen no rules/ethics/morals were followed by those barbaric invaders.

not opposing johar doenst mean we r anti feminist r we r regressive.all these hue & cry abt feminism & progressive or empowered women is hollow if we cant respect those women's choices giving their condns in those times.

dont know if u understood or not but as i said i m not that much gud wid words.

so i here strongly disagree wid u on johar of those times & comparison of sita & draupadi in taht context.

PS i mite hav done sum mistakes in writing as i m not well so pardon me 4 any mistakes

and yes i agree wid u on rajesh khanna but not on AB. AB is not like khans of 2day only hes mix of 2days Khans & nawajudeen/irfaan khan/ manoj bajpayee .he'd proven his talent by doing all type aof movies wid varn. and i m not a v.big fan of AB. i m among of those who likes sanjeev kumar type of actors who knows subtle acting . id ont like OTT acting wid OTT expression like bulging out ur eyes or OTT dialogues or shouting &screaming w/o any rhyme or reason. i prefer body lang & voice moduln wid emotions in ur voice which shows pain in those dialogues. no B&W shock waves on face of actors or OTT shocked expressions etc.🤢total put off 4 me.

Edited by tiny15 - 7 years ago

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SavageMinion

@Minionite

Channel Moderator

+ 47

Posted: 7 years ago

#614

Tiny15 I agree with you. Padmavati is a lot different than Sita and Drapaudi. I haven't seen Padmawat yet, but just on what I've read and heard from my family, Padmavati was a beautiful woman who married Ratan Singh and became his better half. After Khilji killed Ratan Singh in an attempt to overtake Mewar and get Padmavati, she fought back. She didn't give up until she realized that they had been defeated and Khilji and his men were coming for the women. Khilji lusted her and would have dishonoured her and taken her back to defile her again and again. She had no way to fight any longer so she was left with one option. She committed jauhar with all the women to save their honour.

And as for the topic you raised about ISIS, I took a class in uni once where we had a journalist come in to talk about his experience with terrorism. He spent a good 3 years in Afghanistan and Iraq covering the war and speaking to civilians. He told us about young girls, 12 to 15 years old, who said that if ISIS ever came to their village they would kill themselves because if they didn't then they would become sex slaves to the ISIS men. And the men don't care about the girls or women. They just want their bodies. These women are kept in cruel conditions, starved and beaten, forced to have sex until the men are satiated, and after a few months when the women are too weak, they are shot and left to rot. These girls would rather die than face that.

But I also understand your perspective Shruthi.

@ Janas: Satrupa is misunderstood, yes. She also doesn't know how to communicate what she feels in full force. But, at the same time, she is misunderstood because of her past actions. Anami has seen Satrupa blackmail me to go with her else she'll get my adopted parents arrested, seen her get angry at me for bringing Sudha home, she believe she hid Ladoo away despite her torment, and she believes Satrupa started the fire that could have killed her adopted parents. Dood se jala huya chaas bhi phoonk phoonk ke peeta hai. That's the same case here. Anami has seen so many incidents with Satrupa where she has been wrong, that even if she was to beg for forgiveness, Anami would be very careful around her. And it doesn't matter what Satrupa says, without proof Anami will never believe her and that proof has to come from outside. If Satrupa brings it, it's tainted.

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Mangothyme

@Mangothyme

Inactive

Posted: 7 years ago

#615

I want to once again divert from RKC today. But unlike yesterday I think it is an important topic. I just want to say one the things I have deeply enjoyed and in fact more than RKC is this thread every day where we discuss deep things like mythology, ethics, motherhood, responsibility and yet in a respectful manner and most of all without needing a moderator. Thanks a lot guys.

The topic is Padmavat. Shruti I deeply respect your take on it. My knowledge of Indian history is practically non-existent. But the Jauhar of Padmavat is not as black and white as courage or suicide or honor I think. When you hear about bodies being raped I just have to weep at what women faced in the 13th century.

But the tragedy is this is a choice faced again by women of Muslim, Sikh and Hindu faiths during partition. This is a program called "Who do you think you are". It is both in the US and UK and it traces the ancestry of famous people. One of the UK BBC presenters is a woman called Anita Rani of Sikh origin. Her grandfather's first wife jumped into a well with a whole lot of women during partition is the story. What she finds out is horrific and not just about her own family but about other women too and they included muslim, hindu and sikh women. It starts at minute 35.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QUSNLq07e0[/YOUTUBE]

You guys must have heard about the #metoo movement in US. A few days ago the doctor for the US gymnastics team was sentenced to over a 100 years in prison for molesting so many young gymnasts in the name of providing medical treatment. The sad part is these girls had no choice even if they were uncomfortable. They would have been kicked out of the team for being difficult or not obeying. Women have faced horrific choices for safety or life and even now in our modern age we are finding out we are not really better. I don't know if Padmavat was courageous or foolish but I knew somewhere these women were also helpless and we think we are safer, better in the modern age, but are we ? We are finding out otherwise.

Edited by Mangothyme - 7 years ago

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DocSNair

@Mukthaa

Rocker

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#616

@Tiny

I agree with you to some extent and also disagree on some points.

Sati and Jauhar are totally different concepts.

Sati denied the women the right to live after their husbands death..Jauhar on the other hand was an option for women to give up their life .every women then had this RIGHT to decide what they wanted.Padmavati chose to end her life rather than living the life of a sex slave..And I respect her decision.

But my problem is this line

"Rajputi kangan mein utni hi taakat he jitni rajputi talwar mein."

How is this line apt for her? Like Shruthi said it suits someone like the great Jansi Rani who fought against the British till her last breath for her mother land and martyred in the battlefield.My problem is why padmavathi is being portrayed as a great woman(even to the extent of calling goddess).I dnt find anything admirable or inspiring in her..I dnt find any difference between her and the 100s of women who committed Jauhar along with her.. then why only padmavathi is glorified..there are many inspiring woman in our history who excelled in various fields who deserve to be remembered and respected rather than some padmavathi.

PS: I haven't watched the movie and not planning to watch either.. eagerly waiting for Manikarnika movie release.

Edited by Cute-over-Hot - 7 years ago

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Mangothyme

@Mangothyme

Inactive

Posted: 7 years ago

#617

Originally posted by: Cute-over-Hot
@Tiny
I agree with you to some extent and also disagree on some points.

Sati and Jauhar are totally different concepts.
Sati denied the women the right to live after their husbands death..Jauhar on the other hand was an option for women to give up their life .every women then had this RIGHT to decide what they wanted.Padmavati chose to end her life rather than living the life of a sex slave..And I respect her decision.
But my problem is this line

"Rajputi kangan mein utni hi taakat he jitni rajputi talwar mein."

How is this line apt for her? Like Shruthi said it suits someone like the great Jansi Rani who fought against the British till her last breath for her mother land and martyred in the battlefield.My problem is why padmavathi is being portrayed as a great woman(even to the extent of calling goddess).I dnt find anything admirable or inspiring in her..I dnt find any difference between her and the 100s of women who committed Jauhar along with her.. then why only padmavathi is glorified..there are many inspiring woman in our history who excelled in various fields who deserve to be remembered and respected rather than some padmavathi.

PS: I haven't watched the movie and not planning to watch either.. eagerly waiting for Manikarnika movie release.

This is SLB Masala and marketing I think.

When we hear horrific stories we wonder why did they not fight ? why did they not stand up ? Especially in modern society. Sometimes there is no choice. One of the most enduring images of 911 for me was watching something occasionally fall out of the towers before they came down. It was people jumping out of windows. What choice did they have ? Could they have walked a 100 floors down ? Who knows what their thought process was. It's not black and white.

Sometimes even in modern society with people doing the "right" thing abuse happens. As we are learning with the US gymnasts some of the sexual abuse happened right with the mothers in the room. A towel was put or the doctor stood in front while the mother though her being in the room protected the daughter. People did complain. But those in power chose not to hear. Sometimes people are helpless. I don't think the women or kids who killed themselves to avoid rape or slavery throughout history had a clear choice. It must be horrifying to have a terrible choice like that. It is certainly not a question of cowardice though for me.

Edited by Mangothyme - 7 years ago

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Christie2017

@Christie2017

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Posted: 7 years ago

#618

To both Shruthi & Tiny: Both of u r right in some respects. I will not repeat the details but it is to a large extent copy-paste from both Cute & Anita's. I agree Tiny in those times it was a diff. problem and as u said an era diff from when Sita and Draupadi existed. And as u said, it should be the mentality and I think somewhere Shruthi is talking of that. It is not queen per se here. I think it is more to do with what has been projected. I haven't watched the movie and don't intend to even if it comes on TV.

Reason is not advocacy or against Jauhar. As Anita & u put it, Jauhar is on one's own consent unlike Sati which was forced. I am not advocating Jauhar, but in those times, it is not about being under protection of men, Shruthi. When they had no option, it was a better way than to lead a life of a sex slave. Unfortunately, it is prevalent even now. It is not about religion.

Women r even now exploited and treated as a mere object. We think we live in an advanced society, but the respect is not there even now. Reason is mentality and the way a family treats a woman. Until that changes, one cannot expect anything from society. Forget about ISIS. I am talking about India. If u recollect, there was a serial Phir Subah Hogi in which NS acted. It depicted a certain tribe I think in rural MP (I am not sure which place). It was the first time I saw her on screen, and I liked her acting and then went back to her other serials. I stopped watching after she died (I think, I don't even remember).

All of u must understand one thing. Sanjay Bhansali neither glorified the Rajputs or Padmavati nor lampooned them. In very simple terms, HE MADE MONEY. He is a businessman ASAT.

I'd been to Udaipur last year. I know how the locals feel about their queen. They still live in Royal mindset and I am not talking of politicians or Karni Sena. I am talking of ordinary local, simple people; people like u & me.. They r good. They r not bad. I have seen the ruins of Chittorgarh and saw the temple built for her. One of u said, she doesn't deserve to be treated like a Goddess. But she is revered as a mother and in our lives, we treat mothers foremost (Cute u urself have said so). That's y they felt this song and dance sequence was unnecessary. I do not know who provoked all these fringe elements and I DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO VIOLENCE OF ANY FORM especially throwing stones ron school vans or harassing school girls for enacting a dance. These inhumans have no right to talk of a mother if they cannot treat other women like that. Maharana Pratap would have been ashamed to see such so called Rajputs. He had sent back Salim's wife with respect and dignity profusely apologising for his son's behaviour. Result Salim said, he will never fight against Rana. But as I said, Bhansali himself or any political party may have done this for selfish gains. I think I must stop now. My post is getting to be a drag. Sorry.

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Usha

@usharanganathan

Explorer

Posted: 7 years ago

#619

Brilliant analysis Shruthi . I agree with u that the 3st episode was all about Laddoo's innocense. It was also Murari Pathak's DNA. The child was so magnanimous in standing by Jadugarni's side ,inspite of their suffering so much at her hands. Anami rewards Laddoo for this gesture. She might herself learn something from the child. Agreed that she is now more tempered and mature and letting nurture take over nature. If she had been conscious of her nurture before she could have avoided the grave threat to Laddoo, which is still looming large on his head as well as hers. Satrupa's DNA , more than Pathaks nurture dominated her actions at that point of time.

Satrupa is genuinely trying to build her bridge to Anami. It will be long walk for her. Anami will also have to walk some distance to be free of her justified prejudice against Satrupa. In my opinion Anami - Adhiraj track will begin now, bringing along with it the past Satrupa - Baldev, Sudha- Baldev, Satrupa-Dheeru connections. Anami can become the true heir only after she brings proper closure to all these connections

Vikram singh is now softening towards Anami. Does he also consider her worthy of heading RS ? Remains to be seen. Besides being a typical chief of an aristocratic family, for me , he also emerges as some one who cares for RS employees unlike Satrupa.

Finally, I agree with ur take on Padmavat. Such films tend to glorify abhorent systems like Sati and Johar. I agree that it might have been the only option at that time .To show it in this age sends lots of wrong signals to the world as well as the people in our own country. History should be the mirror to the present to correct the past mistakes and wrong ideologies ,not to glorify the past out of proportions. I want to see the movie just as a mark of my protest at the way a few fanatics were holding the states to a ransom.

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Christie2017

@Christie2017

Navigator

Posted: 7 years ago

#620

Wow Usha, we all r so diff. yet so similar. U, Tiny, Shruthi, Anita, Cute and I have voiced similar opinions, yet so dissimilar. But as I said earlier, Tiny is right in her own way and Shruthi from her point of view. It is the mentality of people that must change. It has to start from home. And how iwll that happen? Nobody knows. We go to temples, mosques, churches. We prar. But do we, for a mont consider that the place of worship is for our knowledge? Knowledge that should lead to humilty. No. e go there, we pray for a better life. Even I do. But what is a better life? Is it money, is it peace or is it wisdom? I leave it to u all.

Another thing, is that our history was has been distorted because there is no existing proof. It is all hearsay. It can be concocted to suit one's own needs. We have to find proof. But Padmavati did commit Jauhar along with 27000 women. An entire generation was wiped out. As to the no. of women who committed Jauhar, I am not so sure. But this is what had been projected by the guides in Chittorharh. So to each her own.

Shruthi, i forgot to mention, the guide in Udaipur told us that Alauddin Khilji had once imprisoned her husband. In return for him, she had to come to him. She agreed. But said, she will do with a cavalcade of other women in a palanquin. And she sent some of their most trusted men in those palanquins. They captured Khillji and asked for freedom of the Rana (I forgot his name. I think Ratan Singh). Khilji had no option but to do the needful. The biggest mistake the Rana did was let him go. I do not know why and the guide didn't elaborate. Whether this is fact or fiction, I really don't know. But if this was a fact, the queen was intelligent and courageous but married to a waste husband. But, as u guys say love is blind. We r seeing that in this serial wrt Adhi :) . So I cannot fully agree that she did not fight. She may not be brave to extent of Rani Lakshmibai, whom I adore, but she was not a coward either.

Coming back to the serial, Vikram has completely softened towards Anami, but he will only consider her as rightful heir if she proves herself worthy of it. Till then no.