The hands you take and the hands you leave version 2 part 91in page86

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naq5

@naq5

Rocker

Posted: 7 years ago

#631

Originally posted by: Cute-over-Hot
@Tiny
I agree with you to some extent and also disagree on some points.

Sati and Jauhar are totally different concepts.
Sati denied the women the right to live after their husbands death..Jauhar on the other hand was an option for women to give up their life .every women then had this RIGHT to decide what they wanted.Padmavati chose to end her life rather than living the life of a sex slave..And I respect her decision.
But my problem is this line

"Rajputi kangan mein utni hi taakat he jitni rajputi talwar mein."

How is this line apt for her? Like Shruthi said it suits someone like the great Jansi Rani who fought against the British till her last breath for her mother land and martyred in the battlefield.My problem is why padmavathi is being portrayed as a great woman(even to the extent of calling goddess).I dnt find anything admirable or inspiring in her..I dnt find any difference between her and the 100s of women who committed Jauhar along with her.. then why only padmavathi is glorified..there are many inspiring woman in our history who excelled in various fields who deserve to be remembered and respected rather than some padmavathi.

PS: I haven't watched the movie and not planning to watch either.. eagerly waiting for Manikarnika movie release.

i agree I will not judge padmavati for killing herself than becoming a sex slave. Becoming a sex slave would have put her into years of torture and pain emotionally & physically.

But why hail her as a goddess. What she did was her choice as she was left with no option. On the other side Rani Laxmibai facing a similar kind of situation decided to fightback, because she had the training & strength to do so.

Now its about how in those times when people knew they would face these kinds of situations why dint they train their girls to fight like rani laxmibai. Somewhere they were rendered helpless because of their inability to combat when the need arised.

Even in this advanced age still not all girls are trained into martial arts etc. We think the police is there to protect us but if a need arises will some of us be able to fight back for our safety?. I think martial arts should be made compulsory in school. Im sure the cases of harassment and rape will come down once the perverted guys know that the girl will blast them for good if he tries

Edited by naq5 - 7 years ago

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leavesandwaves

@leavesandwaves

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#632

Rani Laxmibai was facing the British who were not as brutal as Khilji. Atleast they were not mass raping women like those medieval invaders.

And also Rani Laxmibai was a rare woman who was more of a warrior than a gentle queen.

Edited by leavesandwaves - 7 years ago

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shruthiravi

@shruthiravi

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 7 years ago

#633

Why queen has to be gentle or why is it expected a warrior woman won't be gentle. Have u seen oru vadakan veeragatha.Grace of unniyarcha who was a warrior herself. Then belittling Lakshmi bhai's fight telling British were not mass rapists is like telling today's girls be gentle like padmavati and if someone comes to rape u commit suicide don't fight like Lakshmi bhai as being warrior or learning defense techniques is not feminine aspect. Anyways I have nothing against ppl who get inspired by padmavati. I only told my perspective that she is not inspirational for me from any angle. She did what was expected out of her in those times by the patririachial society and she is worshipped today by those who wants that status quo of male superiority to continue.

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leavesandwaves

@leavesandwaves

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#634

Originally posted by: shruthiravi
Why queen has to be gentle or why is it expected a warrior woman won't be gentle. Have u seen oru vadakan veeragatha.Grace of unniyarcha who was a warrior herself. Then belittling Lakshmi bhai's fight telling British were not mass rapists is like telling today's girls be gentle like padmavati and if someone comes to rape u commit suicide don't fight like Lakshmi bhai as being warrior or learning defense techniques is not feminine aspect. Anyways I have nothing against ppl who get inspired by padmavati. I only told my perspective that she is not inspirational for me from any angle. She did what was expected out of her in those times by the patririachial society and she is worshipped today by those who wants that status quo of male superiority to continue.

I have not belittled Laxmibai. I just stated the enemies they faced and the times they had to face.

I think you are trying to get conclusions from my comments which I never meant it so. Did I say that being gentle means committing suicide? Yes, Laxmibai would also have been gentle to the folks she cared. But such women are rare and thats why they are remembered.

I said the two queens are so different for so many reasons. You cannot compare apples with oranges without taking other things into consideration.

I never said Padmavati is inspirational. Did I? Just because I liked the movie does not mean I liked the protagonist as inspirational. They are two different things. One is craft by a film maker and another is a character in the drama. I loved the craft, not the characters so much. But I could empathise.

Edited by leavesandwaves - 7 years ago

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dolly

@tiny15

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#635

Originally posted by: leavesandwaves
Rani Laxmibai was facing the British who were not as brutal as Khilji. Atleast they were not mass raping women like those medieval invaders.
And also Rani Maxmibai is a rare woman who was more of a warrior than a gentle queen.

leaves exactly & agree.

i read all post but cudnt reply 2 all as i m really not well from past 2-3 days.

but i want 2 answer few questions or rather want 2 put my POV.

as leaves said laxmi bai was not facing Khilji . she faced British who were more interested in her empire than her & moreover British were more civil than medieval ages invaders

2ndly Rani Luxmi bai has 2 defend herself as her husband has died. and she also dint wnat her body 2 b touched by British after her death thatswhy she left the war in injured state as she knew she wont survive & her frnd Jhalkari bia took her place wid fake kid i.e doll on her back 2 fool British.

i dont know if u ppl hav read history of medieval ages or not .its more barbaric than we can think in ancient India or start of modern India era(from british times). after british came wars bcame more civil than of medieval ages wars.

so comparing medieval ages or (rather i will say from the time muslim invaders came) wid either ancient times bfr these invaders came till they bcame a part of India i.e till 17th century or after British came is not rite.

and padmini was also a warrior queen she was not a gentle queen but as i said Khilji was difft. he was not Duryudhna or even Ravan nor British who were not barbaric like Khilji.

they opted 4 Jauhar only wen they dint hav any option. they cudnt fight bci=oz if any women wud'd survived in war they wud b taken as sex slaves so they chose Jauhar.

@sneha(cute) she was given Goddess status not bcoz of this only.she was their queen also.tho oder women also did same but they r not given status bcoz as i think janas told wat ppl of think of padmini & their rulers.

2ndly during Sita times oder women also followed pious lives like Sita did but why dint they were given Goddess status or why not sum oder Gopi was made Goddess wid Krishna? why only radha??oder gopis also luved Krishna wid same intensity.bcoz they were royals .

@janas tho i agree wid ur 2nd post on page 80 where u told abt Padmini except ur saying on Ratan Singh. he was not waste of husband . he was brave,rightous & just ruler not 2 his subjects only but also 2 his enemies.he dint get catch by Khilji bcoz of he was coward but bcoz of his gudness. he dint kill Khilji wen he came in the fort w/o his weapons bcoz he believed in ancient India's or rajput's morals not 2 kill helpless enemy.Ratan Singh was caught wen he came 2 Khilji's camp wid only few of his men thinking Khilji is guest & he will fight wid ethics.

this was main mistakes of Indian rulers of that time bcoz they believed in war wid rules/ethics while Khilji like ppl dint.even tho they were deceived many times bcoz of this but they i.e most of them never resorted 2 unfair means.

and wen Gora & Badal went they only got released Ratan Singh they dint catch Khilji . they just got released Ratan Singh & came back.

it was 2nd time wen Khilji attacked and all ration etc were abt 2 finished women took decision of Jauhar etc.

@Usha its not abt glorifying the Jauhar. but wen u make movie based on history or an epic how cud u distort it so blatantly . just think wat end shud Bhansali'd shown except Jauhar wen it was happened like this only?can we expect sum oder end of Ramayana & Mahabahrata?can we show sumthingelse oder than Cheer haran of Draupdai just bcoz it mite sent wrong msg 2 youth that u can win sum woman in sum "Jua" etc?

and abt nehru's Discovery of India.it is based on British's perception of Indian History which is now proved so much wrong in many places . they promoted theory of aryan & dravid ppl difft & aryans from outside but now its proved that aryan never came from outside but rather were from India itself.

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dolly

@tiny15

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#636

abt padmini inspirtaional or not its one stake . i found her inspiration not bcoz she did Jauhar but bcoz she was brave & just queen.she was an intelligent queen .

the ppl who hadnt read abt padmini can say they dint find her inspirational bcoz they r only seeing Jauhar & judging her on that basis.

wen Ratan Singh got caught by Khilji by using unfair means ,Padmini was the one who dint lose her cool & she made all the plan 2 get released him from Khilji.

it was her plan how 2 fool Khilji & brought back her husband.

@ leaves i agree wid u ppl r comparing apples wid oranges. luxmi bai & padmini faced 2 difft types of enemies so their rxns were difft.

and their times were difft.

@shruthi if 2day sum1 gets raped no1 will ask them 2 do jauhar bcoz 2days times r more civil than medieval ages.dont judge sum1 bcoz their circumstances r difft.

if Padmini wud'd faced British she wud'd done same like Luxmi Bai & it mite b possible if Luxmi bai'd been at Padmini's place she wud'd one same bcoz its not jsut abt time but type of enemies they were facing.

ppl react difftly 2 difft ppl.if sum1 is talking in polite manner we talk like that but if we know prsn is a killer or rapist we hav difft rxn.

Padmini dint let Khilji win by not even letting him cum near her while Luxmi Bai did same by not letting her dead body 2 fall in hands of British. she was cremated by a sadhu.

tho Bhansali did dramatised sumthing in the movie like he showed Padmini herself went 2 get him released which was not true .but we can say its not bad if he'd shown that.

on last note the movie is based on the epic written by 16th century poet Malik Muhammad Jayasi's epic "Padmavat"but even in that Padmini dint go by herself 2 get released her hubby.

and i'd read Padmavat tho not deeply bcoz its more in poetry form or in verse type rather than like novel.

and yes 4 me both Padmini & Rani Luxmi Bai r inspirational. bcoz both were brave & just queens but at the same time both were gentle 2 their ppl.

btw lets leave this topic now as its RKC forum.mods mite cum 2 say abt it.

and yes lets agree 2 disagree bcoz we hav difft perceptions abt difft situtns.

Edited by tiny15 - 7 years ago

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leavesandwaves

@leavesandwaves

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#637

thanks tiny for understanding and also the way you analysed.

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dolly

@tiny15

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#638

Originally posted by: leavesandwaves
thanks tiny for understanding and also the way you analysed.

leaves here its not abt even nature of sum1.

i'd read history. tho i was a science student & my job now is related 2 biology epsly botany also but i m v.much interested in oder subjects also like history, geography literature, spirituality etc except eco & maths.😆

and history was my one & 1st optional 4 UPSC exams. tho i dint get selected in that.😆

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DocSNair

@Mukthaa

Rocker

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#639

Originally posted by: leavesandwaves
Rani Laxmibai was facing the British who were not as brutal as Khilji. Atleast they were not mass raping women like those medieval invaders.
And also Rani Laxmibai was a rare woman who was more of a warrior than a gentle queen.

Yes Jhansi Rani was a warrior and that makes her unique and admirable..Like you said a queen was expected to be a gentle beautiful show piece during that time..But Rani Lakshmi Bai fought against the odds and became a warrior..that itself is an inspiring story.

I won't judge Padmavathi for her decision..But like I said earlier I can't stand the glorification of Padmavathi.. worshipping a woman as goddess who rather than fighting the destiny, opted to surrender to it and followed the age old Patriarchal tradition is an insult to all woman who fought against it and changed their destiny with their own hands..And portraying her as the epitome of bravery and her story as inspirational one is an absolute no from my side.

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DocSNair

@Mukthaa

Rocker

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#640

Originally posted by: tiny15
abt padmini inspirtaional or not its one stake . i found her inspiration not bcoz she did Jauhar but bcoz she was brave & just queen.she was an intelligent queen .
the ppl who hadnt read abt padmini can say they dint find her inspirational bcoz they r only seeing Jauhar & judging her on that basis.

wen Ratan Singh got caught by Khilji by using unfair means ,Padmini was the one who dint lose her cool & she made all the plan 2 get released him from Khilji.

it was her plan how 2 fool Khilji & brought back her husband.

@ leaves i agree wid u ppl r comparing apples wid oranges. luxmi bai & padmini faced 2 difft types of enemies so their rxns were difft.
and their times were difft.

@shruthi if 2day sum1 gets raped no1 will ask them 2 do jauhar bcoz 2days times r more civil than medieval ages.dont judge sum1 bcoz their circumstances r difft.
if Padmini wud'd faced British she wud'd done same like Luxmi Bai & it mite b possible if Luxmi bai'd been at Padmini's place she wud'd one same bcoz its not jsut abt time but type of enemies they were facing.
ppl react difftly 2 difft ppl.if sum1 is talking in polite manner we talk like that but if we know prsn is a killer or rapist we hav difft rxn.

Padmini dint let Khilji win by not even letting him cum near her while Luxmi Bai did same by not letting her dead body 2 fall in hands of British. she was cremated by a sadhu.

tho Bhansali did dramatised sumthing in the movie like he showed Padmini herself went 2 get him released which was not true .but we can say its not bad if he'd shown that.

on last note the movie is based on the epic written by 16th century poet Malik Muhammad Jayasi's epic "Padmavat"but even in that Padmini dint go by herself 2 get released her hubby.

and i'd read Padmavat tho not deeply bcoz its more in poetry form or in verse type rather than like novel.

and yes 4 me both Padmini & Rani Luxmi Bai r inspirational. bcoz both were brave & just queens but at the same time both were gentle 2 their ppl.

btw lets leave this topic now as its RKC forum.mods mite cum 2 say abt it.
and yes lets agree 2 disagree bcoz we hav difft perceptions abt difft situtns.