A Cadet or a Daughter? - Page 3

Originally posted by: spidie

In the beginning he did ask Anjali if Sumo is alright. I also liked the way he talked about his perspective and saying Sumo will not understand him today but after some years i hope she would

But that's the problem.na we all know suman didn't understood his pov but did he tried to understand her ? Did he even tried to communicate with her. She on her part pit her pov straight she told him why this is important for her and told him that she won't be derailed from her goal she will make him proud as an officer too but her khushi is with shravan let them be. Where did she deny any thing that the family wanted from her ya yeh ke bas pakkad ke shaadi kar do.

Also we have to keep in mind ke suman abhi bachi hai she is reckless but vijay se toh maturity expect ki jaa sakti hai waise toh he tries to be so understanding but on this bas Faisla suna dia that you are leaving bina trying to talk to her even when she explained her point he remained frigid and cold.

Originally posted by: spidie

Oh I loved the actor, will miss him immensely:) Also Vijay the mentor and also Sumos dad will be missed.(

Don't worry, I'm sure he will turn up in the next show by this PH too😆.....keeping the streak going of playing the idealistic father who tragically dies in the middle of the story (first with Prabhakar, now with Vijay....and then another one probably...lol)....this PH does like to generally repeat/rehash their storylines waise bhi😆

Jokes apart, yes, what I will also miss was the mentor relationship he had with Shravan and Sumo both....he had a very kind demeanor in general, present situation notwithstanding😆

Originally posted by: naadanmasakalli

Also we have to keep in mind ke suman abhi bachi hai she is reckless but vijay se toh maturity expect ki jaa sakti hai waise toh he tries to be so understanding but on this bas Faisla suna dia that you are leaving bina trying to talk to her even when she explained her point he remained frigid and cold.

Originally posted by: naadanmasakalli

But that's the problem.na we all know suman didn't understood his pov but did he tried to understand her ? Did he even tried to communicate with her. She on her part pit her pov straight she told him why this is important for her and told him that she won't be derailed from her goal she will make him proud as an officer too but her khushi is with shravan let them be. Where did she deny any thing that the family wanted from her ya yeh ke bas pakkad ke shaadi kar do.

Suman really did try to communicate and she was able to put her POV in a very clear way. I was just saying that initially I did understand Vijays perspective too. Like any parent he thought they are too young and they don’t know what is better. Because of the misunderstandings Vijay doesn’t think highly of Devraj and his family. So he does have reservations about Shravan too. But as I said after that point it just became about cadet Sumo, which made me disconnect a bit.

Also we have to keep in mind ke suman abhi bachi hai she is reckless but vijay se toh maturity expect ki jaa sakti hai waise toh he tries to be so understanding but on this bas Faisla suna dia that you are leaving bina trying to talk to her even when she explained her point he remained frigid and cold.

The way revelation took place was too sudden and out of the blue for Vijay. They had only known a very focused and disciplined Sumo. We as audience have seen them grow and the depth of their love. What he saw was just them almost about to kiss. 😆 That was a knee jerk reaction, but he should have atleast have faith in his upbringing and trust his daughter. But I guess ab story ko aage bhi to badhana hai😆

Originally posted by: AreYaar

Don't worry, I'm sure he will turn up in the next show by this PH too😆.....keeping the streak going of playing the idealistic father who tragically dies in the middle of the story (first with Prabhakar, now with Vijay....and then another one probably...lol)....this PH does like to generally repeat/rehash their storylines waise bhi😆

Arrey... Is show mein to miss karungi na😆 Lol at your observation about his TV characters, waise I loved him as Prabhakar too😆 Baaki ke shows ka kya pata , jackpot to rarely lagta hai😆

Jokes apart, yes, what I will also miss was the mentor relationship he had with Shravan and Sumo both....he had a very kind demeanor in general, present situation notwithstanding😆

I will pretend today did not happen and remember only good times😆

Also hope I did not jinx Sumos character🤣 Pata chala she will turn in angry, sad, always crying FL 🤔

Originally posted by: AreYaar

I'm not going to get into the episode overall today, but there is one specific part of the episode that I'd like to talk about.

I got that this was supposed to be Vijay's long drawn goodbye to Sumo, which is why the scenes were mostly being shown from his perspective....him looking around Sumo's room, him feeling bad about her not being normal with him etc. etc. but in the process, the writing definitely papered over some issues for convenience.

What got revealed to me as I was watching all his scenes today was just how regimental his whole mindset is.....he only seems to view Sumo as a cadet who must become an officer since that is her destiny....not even once did I hear a peep from Vijay about Sumo's emotions, her thoughts even when he's seen her in this kind of turmoil for the first time in her life.

As a father, shouldn't your first thought be about your child's pain? I get his protectiveness as a father...and that's totally fine...but the fact that not even a thought or moment was spared for him to even REFLECT over Sumo's emotions, not even a little wondering over why his child might feel the way she does....that definitely was a let down. He literally shunted the entire incident aside quickly as some minor aberration on Sumo's destined path to the Army. This is a problematic part of Sumo's upbringing....yes, discipline is important but the level to which the whole family seems to have robotically programmed her to view the entire world only as a goal towards Army is flawed....and the flaws are coming to fore in this phase.

Now Vijay is about to die so obviously that leaves his character on a tragic note....but I still could not find myself in alignment with his viewpoint today...to me, it was problematic to see a father only view his daughter as a cadet who must fall in line with what he dreams for her. They only seem to be able to communicate with each other in Army metaphors....but there is life beyond that and sadly Vijay didn't seem capable of viewing his daughter through that lens. That is part of the tragedy he will leave with.

I just found it odd that Vijay actually expected that the daughter he saw crying so badly yesterday should suddenly be normal with him the next day as he's sending her away to Pune? For real? lol....that this is the level of expectation from Sumo that she never feel the human emotions of hurt and disappointment and always fall in line with whatever daddy says to "normalize" in an instant. Ajeeb hai.

This is a tale of two fathers in a sense....one (Vijay) who was excessively proud of his child to the point of being blind to everything but the ambition he chose for her....and the other (Devraj) who was excessively harsh on his child many times, unable to see his potential. They both lacked a level of communication with their children despite attempting to be their friends.

Anyways, the stage had to be set, so it has been....and it will still be very sad to see Vijay's character passing....but I still think it's worth noting the flaws in his character that led to the issues at hand.

giving my response to the @bold highlighted statements- as an Army brat myself, I can definitely say that the entire Tiwari family (barring Kanchan), especially Vijay's & Daadu's characters are completely based on the 90's film versions of Army officers- talking in Army metaphors constantly, 24 x7 thinking about serving the Nation... these characteristics are not a part of our life. For 20 years, I have travelled all across India, thanks to my Dad being in the Army & even after my Dad's retirement, I still have good relations with my Dad's coursemates. Never have I ever actually come across any Army official who has the demeanor that of Daadu's or Vijay Tiwari's. We are a mix of the men & boys portrayed in this show. out of all the officers i had met in my life, 90% of them are ABSOLUTELY fine with their sons & daughters NOT joining the Army & doing anything else in their life... out of all of my Army friends, only 3-4 boys have joined the Armed Forces. We are still in touch and we keep on joking about our Army lifestyle. True, discipline is there. But it's not enforced upon us. It's a matter of choice whether the parents want that or not. Some parents do use, some don't. and it's COMPLETELY fine with us as well. Mein khud bhi 0% disciplined hu. But that doesn't stem from the fact that my father never tried. He obviously did & still tries.

I also want to mention how the makers never highlighted the fact that Army Parties & get togethers EXIST! Trust me when i say, Army waali parties na saala South Delhi & South Bombay ki parties (put together btw) sey zyada lambi chalti hain. I've gone to so many of them, abhi kuch karne ka mood nahi karta. Show main toh aisa dikhaya hain ki hum Army waale log hotey hain 'sachai ki murat, 'patriotism ki surat!'... aisa REAL main kuch nahi hota.

what happened in yesterday's episode, THAT.. that my friends was the reason for me leaving the show in the beginning.. this entire caricaturistic behavior & stereotyping of Army people & Civillians really bothered me.

If this was to happen in Real Life, here's how it would go down- Vijay & Devraj would take the night off- Suman & Shravan would ask both the Papas to meet on their sceret Adda- let them put their POV, hear the Papa's POV- ask for some time & space for their relationship, while trying to consider their own (Papas) relation. The Papas will take time, SuVan chup-chup kay miltay; Sumo madam would prove to be good Officer & Shravan would do something in India, what he may have planned to do in the States.
THIS would be the REAL life scenario.

sorry for the rant guys. I'm deeply disturbed today by SuVan's decision.

tanya

Hmm interesting perspective and analysis AY!

I for one haven't been able to take sides at this point in time. Both parties seem to be in the wrong to some or the other degree.

In last night's post too I mentioned how I thought Suman 'felt' more wrong, rather upsetting to the audience only cuz we know what's to follow. And the guilt she'll be lashed with. Had the fate not be known it would've just been a regular unbun.

(I think I missed it but was Suman made aware of Vijay's going on a mission?🤔)

I know eloping wasn't the best choice and so wasn't turning the kids away. Perhaps the way it was out in the open was one of the factors. And their family differences adding to the mayhem.

But you know, Suman is behaving new to her character and the parents ended up being too hasty to come to a conclusion. It is something neither one was prepared for. Maybe the circumstances are to be blamed?

Waise never found the Tiwaris functioning as a family. They've always come off to me as trophy people (I don't know if that's the right word here) And hence it's a little difficult to understand Anjali. When Sumo was hurt the only family member she could lean on was Kancha who herself is a kid. In that matter toh at least Kavita is better (when she sensed something wrong with Shravan)

The only reason that makes my heart heavy is cuz of what's to follow. Sumo behaved like a kid for the first time and now she's gonna have a guilt. In the end I think it doesn't even matter if anyone was in the wrong but how nothing you do can bring back a dead person.

Originally posted by: spidie

I will pretend today did not happen and remember only good times

This reminds me that we said the same thing after Vijay acted so aloof to Shravan's pleas for his Chachu 😆.....tab we thought he's just being like that cuz Shravan is not his own kid, and he was worried about his own father.

Turns out he can be just as deaf to his own daughter also....so then it comes down to the same conclusion....he tunes out anyone who doesn't do exactly as he wants....even his own daughter.

Originally posted by: d3luver

giving my response to the @bold highlighted statements- as an Army brat myself, I can definitely say that the entire Tiwari family (barring Kanchan), especially Vijay's & Daadu's characters are completely based on the 90's film versions of Army officers- talking in Army metaphors constantly, 24 x7 thinking about serving the Nation... these characteristics are not a part of our life. For 20 years, I have travelled all across India, thanks to my Dad being in the Army & even after my Dad's retirement, I still have good relations with my Dad's coursemates. Never have I ever actually come across any Army official who has the demeanor that of Daadu's or Vijay Tiwari's. We are a mix of the men & boys portrayed in this show. out of all the officers i had met in my life, 90% of them are ABSOLUTELY fine with their sons & daughters NOT joining the Army & doing anything else in their life... out of all of my Army friends, only 3-4 boys have joined the Armed Forces. We are still in touch and we keep on joking about our Army lifestyle. True, discipline is there. But it's not enforced upon us. It's a matter of choice whether the parents want that or not. Some parents do use, some don't. and it's COMPLETELY fine with us as well. Mein khud bhi 0% disciplined hu. But that doesn't stem from the fact that my father never tried. He obviously did & still tries.

I also want to mention how the makers never highlighted the fact that Army Parties & get togethers EXIST! Trust me when i say, Army waali parties na saala South Delhi & South Bombay ki parties (put together btw) sey zyada lambi chalti hain. I've gone to so many of them, abhi kuch karne ka mood nahi karta. Show main toh aisa dikhaya hain ki hum Army waale log hotey hain 'sachai ki murat, 'patriotism ki surat!'... aisa REAL main kuch nahi hota.

what happened in yesterday's episode, THAT.. that my friends was the reason for me leaving the show in the beginning.. this entire caricaturistic behavior & stereotyping of Army people & Civillians really bothered me.

If this was to happen in Real Life, here's how it would go down- Vijay & Devraj would take the night off- Suman & Shravan would ask both the Papas to meet on their sceret Adda- let them put their POV, hear the Papa's POV- ask for some time & space for their relationship, while trying to consider their own (Papas) relation. The Papas will take time, SuVan chup-chup kay miltay; Sumo madam would prove to be good Officer & Shravan would do something in India, what he may have planned to do in the States.
THIS would be the REAL life scenario.

sorry for the rant guys. I'm deeply disturbed today by SuVan's decision.

tanya

LOL don't apologize....I understand where your rant is coming from. Anyone who has any familiarity with the world of Army families will take objection to the portrayal in this show. I also was irritated by the same things in the early days of the show but I let it go overall because I still liked the development of Shravan-Sumo's relationship.

Ultimately they have exaggerated and caricaturized the Army characters in this show for the sake of playing out a "contrast" with the civilians since that is supposed to be the basic "conflict" in the story. They wanted to distill the Army family down to just talking about the Army and desh 24/7 when that really isn't how it goes. Anyways, I still would be willing to look past that if they hadn't shown Vijay, the otherwise doting/benevolent father being shown so robotically in this last stretch.

Realism toh waise bhi shows se expect karna is far-fetched....so I don't have those kind of expectations also....I can understand why the kids did what they did since they are emotional, impulsive kids and the story needed this drama to build up the tragedy.

My issue is just mainly with showing Vijay so one-dimensional in this last bit....baaki otherwise I've liked his character many times.

Originally posted by: Bucky

Hmm interesting perspective and analysis AY!

I for one haven't been able to take sides at this point in time. Both parties seem to be in the wrong to some or the other degree.

In last night's post too I mentioned how I thought Suman 'felt' more wrong, rather upsetting to the audience only cuz we know what's to follow. And the guilt she'll be lashed with. Had the fate not be known it would've just been a regular unbun.

(I think I missed it but was Suman made aware of Vijay's going on a mission?🤔)

I know eloping wasn't the best choice and so wasn't turning the kids away. Perhaps the way it was out in the open was one of the factors. And their family differences adding to the mayhem.

But you know, Suman is behaving new to her character and the parents ended up being too hasty to come to a conclusion. It is something neither one was prepared for. Maybe the circumstances are to be blamed?

Waise never found the Tiwaris functioning as a family. They've always come off to me as trophy people (I don't know if that's the right word here) And hence it's a little difficult to understand Anjali. When Sumo was hurt the only family member she could lean on was Kancha who herself is a kid. In that matter toh at least Kavita is better (when she sensed something wrong with Shravan)

The only reason that makes my heart heavy is cuz of what's to follow. Sumo behaved like a kid for the first time and now she's gonna have a guilt. In the end I think it doesn't even matter if anyone was in the wrong but how nothing you do can bring back a dead person.

Hmm thanks Bucky😆

The intent of this analysis wasn't really to take sides either. Obviously both parties have contributed to the situation at hand since they are both coming at it from their own perspectives.

The kids atleast still have the surprising maturity to understand that what they are doing is wrong....Sumo acknowledged as much to Shravan....but they also felt helpless and felt they had to choose a wrong path to get their parent's attention.

No, I don't think Suman was aware that her dad is going on a mission....all she heard was him getting a call about needing to go to the Cantt for some work - she didn't hear the details. She was just happy that she got a reprieve since she was dreading how she will be able to leave the car to go meet Shravan if her dad is also coming along.

LOL I agree with the description of the Tiwaris as a trophy family.....they did come across as stiff in many ways...but in this situation, it really got excessive with Vijay again only viewing this Shravan-Sumo situation also only from the measure of "Can my daughter become an Officer if she has a BF"😕....there was no processing of the emotions or the people involved....just a direct jump to "Army goal"....that was what made it disjointed.