+* Dwapar Yuga: Doubts & Discussions *+

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#131

I have 2 questions:

During the Dwarka fratricide, when did Ugrasena die? Did he die during the brawl that killed Satyaki, Pradhyumna, Charudeshna, Samba & others, or did he die w/ Vasudeva after Krishna's passing? Or did he accompany Arjun but die on the way? Or did he die earlier and if so, who ran Dwarka? Vasudev or Balarama?
Did Balarama have any sons & grandsons? I've read in some places of Balarama's daughter Vatsala, who was said to have married Abhimanyu, but not in mainstream literature. But did Balarama have any wives other than Revathy, and any sons? And if he did have sons, did he have any descendents who survived the fratricide, like Vajra did?

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kinny_ranvir

@kinny_ranvir

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#132

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
I have 2 questions:
During the Dwarka fratricide, when did Ugrasena die? Did he die during the brawl that killed Satyaki, Pradhyumna, Charudeshna, Samba & others, or did he die w/ Vasudeva after Krishna's passing? Or did he accompany Arjun but die on the way? Or did he die earlier and if so, who ran Dwarka? Vasudev or Balarama?
Did Balarama have any sons & grandsons? I've read in some places of Balarama's daughter Vatsala, who was said to have married Abhimanyu, but not in mainstream literature. But did Balarama have any wives other than Revathy, and any sons? And if he did have sons, did he have any descendents who survived the fratricide, like Vajra did?

1)
Balarama and Krishna passed away seeing their clan getting destroyed as a result of the brawl, the iron rod, samba ( @vrish u know tht better i guess )..
Hearing that krishna's prime (8)wives and Revathy entered into the funeral pyre of their husbands, Ugrasena along with Vasudeva n his wives entered themselves into the flames.

The last rites were performed by Arjuna who then left the dwarka with remaining people and Vajra.

2)
balaram had only one wife- Revathy... 1 daughter vatsala (also called sasirekha) and 2 sons (names i guess -nisatha and ulmukha)...
it is known that his both sons were killed the horrible fraticide...

it is known that vatsala was married to Abhimanyu with help of Bhima's son (with his first wife- Hidimbi) Ghatothkacha ...much against to balaram's wishes... this is not found in most of the puranas but in south india especially in my state Andhra Pradesh, they consider it...there was a movie too on it years back...

no much idea abt his descedents...sorry

Edited by kinny_ranvir - 13 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#133

^^^#1 above, is that the Puranic version? In the Mahabharat, Mausala Parva, Vasudev dies the day after Arjun arrives in a yogic trance, and Arjuna does his cremation, and Vasudev's 4 wives enter his fire (but not Revathy, Rukmini & others). All the women & children of Dwarka accompany Arjun, and en route, they are attacked by bandits and a lot of the women were successfully abducted. After they arrived @ Indraprastha, Rukmini and 4 of Krishna's other wives entered the fire, Satyabhama, Mitravindya and one more wife went to the Himalayas to practise austerities, and the 16,100 wives from Narakasura drowned themselves in the Saraswati. I'm assuming that Revathy too may have entered the fire b4 Rukmini.

I asked the question b'cos in the Mahabharata version, no mention was made of Ugrasena in that chapter, other than him being the one to order the mace that Samba gave birth to to be grounded, and scattered on the soil where the fratricide happened. After that incident, no more mention of Ugrasena.

Thanks anyway, for the info on his sons.

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#134

Vrish,

As far as the SB is concerned, it says that Vasudeva, Rohini and Devaki died immediately on seeing the lifeless bodies of their sons. Vasudeva's other wives climbed his funeral pyre.

Rukmini and all other wives also climbed Sri Krishna's pyre.

Interestingly, the next verse says that Lord Balrama's wives courted fire. I have to check the exact Sanskrit word - whether it is used in singular or plural

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#135

vaarali

So Krishna & Balarama were actually cremated? In the Mahabharata, Arjun never found their bodies, so they were presumed dead, and their shradh was performed. So did Krishna & Balarama get killed in the brawl itself - the Mahabharat has it that they survived it! Balarama sat next to the sea, and Sesha nag left his mouth, and his body was taken to Vaikuntha. Krishna, after being shot by Jara and forgiving him, was taken by the devas to Vaikuntha. Neither of their bodies were ever discovered.

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#136

Vrish,

Canto 11, Chapter 31 Verse 20 of the SB says this-

rama-patnyas ca tad-deham

upaguhyagnim avisan

Vasudeva-patnyas tad-gatra?

pradyumnadin hare? snu?a?

k???a-patnyo 'visann agni?

rukmi?y-adyas tad-atmika?

The wives of Lord Balarama also entered the fire and embraced His body, and Vasudeva's wives entered his fire and embraced his body. The daughters-in-law of Lord Hari entered the funeral fires of their respective husbands, headed byPradyumna. And Rukmi?i and the other wives of Lord k???a — whose hearts were completely absorbed in Him — entered His fire.

So this shows that the bodies of Krishna and Balrama, Vasudeva, Devaki and Rohini were not only found but properly cremeated. Then who did the cremeation?

The next verse (Sloka 22) answers this question-

bandhuna? na??a-gotra?am

arjuna? samparayikam

hatana? karayam asa

yatha-vad anupurvasa?

Arjuna then saw to it that the funeral rites were properly carried out for the dead, who had no remaining male family members. He executed the required ceremonies for each of the Yadus, one after another.

The scene prior to their passing is just as you describe. Shocked and anguished at hi sown kinsmen kiling one another, Balarama sits near the ocean and gives up his body. no mention is made of Shesha naag leaving his mouth.

Krishna of course sits under the Peepal tree where Jara the hunter shoots him

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#137

Ok I have a Question.

Do we know when do Krishna/ Balaram meet the Pandavas for the first time.?

Because, according to the SB, when the Syamantaka gem episode is taking place, reports reach Dwaraka that Kunti and her sons have been burnt to death at Varnavrat.

Immediately after securing the gem from Jambhavan and restoring it to Satrajit, Krishna and Balram reach Hastinapur to pay their condolences. It is in their absence that Shatadhanva murders Satrajit and a lamenting Satyabhama reaches Hastinapur to seek her husband's help.

This is one of the few incidents whose relative timeline can be fixed. Now the Pandavas will surface only during Draupadi's swayamwar.

So my question is does the Mahabharat tell us when the Pandavas and krishna/Balaram meet for the first time?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#138

This was also the period that Balarama trained Duryodhan on mace fighting. I was surprised to see SB say that it happened in Mithila, of all places.

I'll check what the Mahabharata says in Adi Parva and get back on this one later.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#139

vaarali

I checked Mahabharata - Sambhava Parva in Adi Parva - and there was no mention of Krishna going to Hastinapur after the Varnavarta house burnt down. Besides, Kunti was w/ the Pandavas, not w/ Dhritarashtra, so had they gone there, they'd only have met Dhritarashtra, not Kunti.

They first meet @ Draupadi's swayamvar. I'd have to read more of the Mahabharata - from Swayamvara Parva onwards - to find out what is said there about Arjun & Krishna.