+* Dwapar Yuga: Doubts & Discussions *+

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Bhavaani

@Bhavaani

Voyager

+ 3

Posted: 14 years ago

#121

^^ Hmm I'm not quite sure...never having read anything which went into details about the rules of gadha yudh. But I remember from the scenes shown in BR.Chopra's Mahabharat that a lot of the gadha yudh scenes involved kicking and pushing around...one of the major ones being between Drupad and Duryodhana (when Drona asks his students to capture Drupad as their guru dakshina) and Drupad did kick Duryodhana into his chariot...

LOL but I'm sure you wanted a more researched answer...I'll try and have a dig around! 😛

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#122

To answer Lola's question, I think the answer is no - warriors were only supposed to use the gada, not their fists, no kicking (except maybe to stave off an attack if they were lying on the ground), no using other weapons. In sword fights, shields were allowed and standard, but maces being as heavy as they were, it was expected that warriors would be using both hands to carry them.

I do like that in this serial, the maces don't make glass noises that they did in BRC's Mahabharata.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#123

The scene about Kritavarma not wanting Devaki to be present where his own baby is being named reminded me of the story about Krishna, on Devaki's request, going and fetching her first 6 babies, and bringing them to her. She feeds them, and they attain their final salvation. Aside from the story itself, does anyone know @ what point in Devaki's life did this happen? Would it have happened now @ this time frame, or towards the end of Krishna's life, as RS SK showed it?

Another thing that struck me - although this aspect of the story ought to have been addressed in JSK, if it was - was that there was a contest for Devaki's hand b/w various factions, and one of Vasudev's friends Sini defeated one of Devaki's other suitors, Somadatta in battle, disarming and kicking him in battle. Sini then handed over Devaki to Vasudev for marriage. Does anyone know what Kansa's role was in any of this, or was he just a spectator? (This story is described in the Mahabharat, in the Jayadrath vadh part of Drona parva to explain the enemity b/w Satyaki, Sini's grandson, and Bhurishrava, Somadatta's son) Also, what was Somadatta's status among the Yadavas, or was he a complete outsider?

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#124

Vrish,

To answer your last question- whether Somadutta was related to the Yadavas or not-

As far as my memory serves correct, Somadutta traced his origins more to the Kuru branch. His great grandfather ( i think) was the Kuru Emperor Pratipa, who had three sons (one of whom was Shantanu). The first son, I think became an ascetic, the second son for some reason renounced his paternal kingdom and instead settled with his maternal relatives, somewhere in north western India. This was the family branch to which Somadatta belonged.

Probably due to geographical proximity, this clan got involved with the affairs of the Yadavas (after their migration to Dwaraka). I don't think Somaduta, et all were Yadavas by birth

Replying to your other question regarding Kamsa's role whil Devaki's hand was being sought about- Kamsa was at time on a conquest, leading an army, as a vassal of Jarasandha. IIRC, when he returns to Mathura, he learns about Devaki's betrothal to Vasudeva and is happy about it.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#125

Thanks!!! B'cos from what I've read in the Mahabharata, Bhurishrava was one of Duryodhan's allies not just in the war, but even b4 that, he was one of Duryodhan's friends, like Karna, Susharma, Jayadratha and others.

One would have thought that Satyaki's prime enemy in that war would have been Kritavarma, but it was Bhurishrava, and their ancestrial enemity traced from Devaki's marriage played out its finale here. Bhurishrava also killed 10 of Satyaki's sons - all the ones who participated in the war - on day 6 or 7 of the war.

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#126

It is not surprising that Bhurishrava was allied to the Kurus politically- after all they were blood related and shared a common ancestor. As you correctly pointed out the effects of Sini- Somadutta conflict were carried on for three generations.

Just to add to your info on Kritavarma-

All was not well and rosy within the Yadava community despite whatever TV serials might show. The Yadava community comprised several clans - each with political ambitions of its own.

At the time when Kamsa was at the helm, a few prominent Yadavas sided with him ( if not overtly, at least covertly)

While Akrura, Vasudeva, Satyaka, were openly defiant (and suffered repercussions), there were some, who, to save their skins, did not dare to oppose Kamsa, or were, at best, neutral. Satrajit and his brother Prasenjit, Kritavarma belonged to this group. After Kamsa's death and Krishna's ascendancy, these Yadavas had trouble coming to terms with the new power structure. A rival power group began to grow and Satrajit, with his fabled wealth began to lure youngsters like Brihadbala. They even tried to drive wedges in Krishna's camp by inviting Balrama and Satyaki to their late night entertainment where wine, wealth and dice ruled.

Ofcourse, this rival group could not hold out on its own for long before infighting broke out amongst them with Kritavarma murdering Satrajit

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#127

Thanks for the info!

But if Somadatta's ties to the Kurus were via Pratipa, Bhurishrava could have joined either side on grounds of family ties, no? Or did he have foremost ties w/ whoever was the ruler of Hastinapur? Or was it the fact that Satyaki was already on the Pandava side that spurred him to join the Kauravas? But as I pointed out, he was a friend of Duryodhan even b4 that.

Were Satrajit & Prasenjit Andhakas/Bhojas like Kritavarma & Akrura, or where they Vrishnis? I was under the impression that such a split was on clan/creed lines - namely Vrishnis vs Andhakas.

Yeah, Satadhanva, Kritavarma & Akrura turned against Satrajit for reneging on his promise to give Satyabhama to any one of them. Although, if Satrajit had indeed promised Satyabhama to them, then I'd argue that they were justified in being resentful, although not justified for murder.

So was Krishna's support to Ugrasena, in addition to his desire of not legitimizing his ouster by Kansa in the first place, done for the purposes of not upsetting the political balance and shifting the throne from an Andhaka to a Vrishni? A political equation that was solved when Arjun installed Kritavarma's son Bali as the ruler of Marttikavat, Vajra in Mathura/Indraprastha(? I've seen both accounts) and Satyaki's surviving son as a ruler of a kingdom on the banks of the Saraswati.

One more thing - whenever Krishna had to fly somewhere, didn't he use Garuda, rather than his chariot, except for that war w/ Shalva?

Edited by _Vrish_ - 13 years ago

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MagadhSundari

@MagadhSundari

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 13 years ago

#128

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
The scene about Kritavarma not wanting Devaki to be present where his own baby is being named reminded me of the story about Krishna, on Devaki's request, going and fetching her first 6 babies, and bringing them to her. She feeds them, and they attain their final salvation. Aside from the story itself, does anyone know @ what point in Devaki's life did this happen? Would it have happened now @ this time frame, or towards the end of Krishna's life, as RS SK showed it?

I guess I'll take this part :P I too was reminded of this incident and am still guessing that the current track is Sagar Pictures' own take on this particular story, since Krishna's already @ Yama's gates he'll probably get back all the babies at once. Maybe not, but... maybe. As per the Bhagavat, it did happen closer to the end of the avtaar but not at the tail end. Paundrak, Shishupal, Dantavakra, and Shalva are killed, and Sudama's visit has already occurred when this story takes place. But Subhadra Haran is discussed afterward... but that may be because the text is nonlinear so we can't really say it happened after just because it's written about after. Because of the way it's set up, with Parikshit asking questions that lead Shukdev into the next story, it's hard to tell whether the events are described in chronological order or just according to Parikshit's curiosity. For example, Subhadra Haran opens with him asking, "how did my grandma get married? can you tell me that part again?".

Btw, the Bhagavat does not refer to Devaki's swayamvar at all... that seems to be an MB exclusive. This text focuses more on the ceremonies of the marriage than the circumstances. In the Vishnu Puran, it's written that in the interest of peace between the factions, Devak's 7 daughters were married off to Vasudev at one go - no swayamvar there either. If taken into consideration though, it does seem to explain many of the rivalry-fueled later incidents as you and Varaali pointed out. Thanks for the info guys!

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#129

Lola

Thanks for filling in. But Vasudev is described in the Mahabharat as having 4 wives - Devaki, Bhadra, Rohini and Madira, in Mausala parva. Did he have more who died b4 him?

Also, how would giving all 7 of Devak's daughters to Vasudev resolve the problem? Wouldn't the solution be to give each of them to a different clan head? And wasn't Devaki Ugrasena's daughter, or was she Kamsa's cousin?

Also, was Ugrasena killed in the fratricide b/w the Yadavas, or did he, like Vasudev, die after Arjun arrived, or somewhere in b/w? Mausala parva is silent about him

Edited by _Vrish_ - 13 years ago