Penned: Jahnvi in the stocks!

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Goldstar7

@Goldstar7

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#41

Never blamed or called any name for J .If saying unrealistic is not going well with the topic then wont post any more.

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381490

Hibernated

Posted: 13 years ago

#42

Originally posted by: -prime-
Never blamed or called any name for J .If saying unrealistic is not going well with the topic then wont post any more.

There's no need for that, Prime.

But if you can argue as to how Raghav/Sia being an unrealistic couple [as you mentioned in your comment] relates to victim blaming here, then you're more than welcome to continue down the line of that debate.

Edited by Elysia - 13 years ago

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Aya.

@Aya.

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

#43

Originally posted by: Ani_98

Very interesting post Aya.

You are right Sia did lie'everyone does'.but that does not make the person to bad person. I think many victims lies'.especially to them self.
Yes, we all lie. But it's best to tell a lie when you want to save yourself or someone from something. I understand that Jhanvi did it for herself, but at the same time she put other peoples lives in danger. Of course it doesn't make you a bad person (if you're lying for a good reason).

I think she change her name because she hated who she had become'sometime to start over, you start with change in your look.

Jhanvi changing her name and her identity' there are two reasons for that. Viraj not be able to find her and because of self-hate and to be able to start over. You are right changing your name does not change you, unless you also try to change from inside out'but Jhanvi did what many do, think that changing name and look will help taking the pain and self-hate away.
Ok. Agreed with the changing name since you & Ana have given me good reasons ! : )

About Priya, she was young and the track was about how very young girls fell for dominate and older men, without knowing what they are getting them self in to.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying whatever Viraj did to her was right or she deserved it. I'm just saying that at least there was someone who warned her about Viraj, but she chose to ignore that.

About the fake marriage: It is a drama'so unrealistic think will happen. There has to be suspense and twist in a story.
Indian dramas I tell you ! 😆

Also'I think there reason was convincing enough.

It was not Raghav or Sia's idea, it was a doctor who got this interesting and challenging patient'she is resurging. The question is, how much does she care for Raghav or Sia'maybe it is more about Viraj being a challenge for her.

About running away'The fact is that violent men or obsessives men do not leave you, unless you are dead. So running away again, would not be a solution for Sia.

Viraj will find her and keep finding her, because it is about his pride and he loves the hunt.
I'd have to disagree here. Viraj can't just barge into a country like that ! Running away to a different country (imo) is a solution for a women like Jhanvi. There are so many places to run to.

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Ani_La_Iam

@Ani_La_Iam

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

#44

Aya I think many of us felt that Jhanvis character was confusing after she lost her baby. Viraj got a lot of screen place and Jhanvis character got lost. I think that it is just in the past two weeks that we really got to know and understand Jhanvi.

It is difficult to say when a lie is right and when it is wrong, it depends on the situation, the emotions and why you are lying. When Jhanvi was not telling the true about herself to Raghav…agree…that was wrong, even though I do understand her fear.

But the lies she is telling now is to survive and punish her abuser…also Raghav know about it…they are together in the fight against Viraj and he is playing dirty.

About Priya…yes her father warned her. I only liked that track because of the message. One…do not take a stranger before you family. Second...as I said before they showed what really happens in the real world.

Aya you are right… if you got the resources you can and should run.

The thing is just that it does not remove the pain and the hurt. If you have been abused or feel that you have been abused…to be able to move on, you need to see the abuser in the eyes and feel that you won.

The abuser many time got a power on you that stop you from moving on and living, you need the power back and the way to get it, is by feeling you overpowered the abuser.

Many time you have been told again and again that you are wrong and not good enough, you need to feel that the abuser or whoever hurt you… got punish…or you will keep wondering if it was you, who did something wrong and you will keep punishing yourself, by not letting you have any happiness, because you feel you do not deserve it.

Aya what I am talking about is not specific Sia…but victim in many other and different cases.

The great about this show is that it makes you discus, think and put yourself in situations where you never though you will be...but what if you are in this situation...what will you do.

A discussion about victims being blame is very important…because they are being blamed or called names.

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DJ..

@DJ..

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#45

Sorry if i am going a little off topic but needed to bring this point to light

Blaming the victim is one thing and there is blaming the person standing up for the victim

Most of the times the person who is the abuser is not necessarily a pycho or a full blown mental disorder person He / She can be one with serious anger management issues. When I say anger management I mean controlling their temper in regards to anything that is against their ideology.

Most of the times the victim is blamed but worst is when the person standing up for the victim is blamed by saying you are probably imagining things

At this point it becomes difficult to handle Nonetheless one has to

I would say nor the victim nor then one one standing up for the victim should lay his weapons down. At all given points one has to make sure that no one encroaches on your space and rights of living a dignified life

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381490

Hibernated

Posted: 13 years ago

#46

Originally posted by: DJ..
Sorry if i am going a little off topic but needed to bring this point to light

Blaming the victim is one thing and there is blaming the person standing up for the victim

Most of the times the person who is the abuser is not necessarily a pycho or a full blown mental disorder person He / She can be one with serious anger management issues. When I say anger management I mean controlling their temper in regards to anything that is against their ideology.

Most of the times the victim is blamed but worst is when the person standing up for the victim is blamed by saying you are probably imagining things

At this point it becomes difficult to handle Nonetheless one has to

I would say nor the victim nor then one one standing up for the victim should lay his weapons down. At all given points one has to make sure that no one encroaches on your space and rights of living a dignified life

That's definitely not off-topic. In fact, you made a very important point. Thank you for adding it. You did remind me of something else as well.

There are two sides to victim blaming and victim blamers. Like you mentioned, the victim is blamed, but so are those who support/stand up for the victim. One can see that as two types of victim blaming, in a way. Then there are the victim blamers -- those who call the names, blame openly, but one shouldn't forget that keeping silent when bearing witness to victim blaming is also condoning the victim blaming.

Implicitly, it says that you are, in fact, supporting the victim blaming rather than arguing against it.

Edited by Elysia - 13 years ago

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DJ..

@DJ..

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#47

Originally posted by: Elysia

That's definitely not off-topic. In fact, you made a very important point. Thank you for adding it. You did remind me of something else as well.

There are two sides to victim blaming and victim blamers. Like you mentioned, the victim is blamed, but so are those who support/stand up for the victim. One can see that as two types of victim blaming, in a way. Then there are the victim blamers -- those who call the names, blame openly, but one shouldn't forget that keeping silent when bearing witness to victim blaming is also condoning the victim blaming.

Implicitly, it says that you are, in fact, supporting the victim blaming rather than arguing against it.

Absolutely ... but in most cases the supporters lack support from the victim himself/herself either due to fears, acceptance to such violence as way of life or bad memory (dementia in senior members hinder recalling the incident) However, the saying is very important to remember and act up 'Zulm sehna Zulm karne se zyaada bura hota hai'

Hence despite all odds one should stand up for the rights as after a dark night there is always a dawn

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Aditi

@mysticgoryfilms

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

#48

This is not the first time Jhanvi has been blamed, or her actions have been questioned.

I still remember the time, on this very forum, Jhanvi was heavily blamed for not reciprocating to Raghav's feelings/proximity. At that time, people felt bad for Raghav, not Jhanvi - the victim who just fled from her husband. They were questioning Jhanvi and blaming her for not loving Raghav. Few arguments were made then in response to this blame put on Jhanvi. Jhanvi was in trauma, state of shock. The last thing that would've been on her mind would be responding to Raghav's feelings.

But now it's supposedly disgusting that Jhanvi is criticized (no one "bashed" Jhanvi on this forum as far as I know). She will always be a victim, but she's not in trauma anymore. Jhanvi is not in a state of shock anymore that we have to keep going back to the "she has suffered so much" statement before making decisions about her. Yes, she has suffered. Everyone accepts that and everyone's heart did go out to her -- then.

Now, she is not suffering. She has support from Raghav (I won't even get into the argument of him interfering and not exactly being a "help" or "support") and she will have support from the Singhs as well once she decides to tell them. She has a lot of grounds in which she can seek for divorce, yet Jhanvi decides to lie, she decides to put others in the dark for her own benefit when she is supposedly so "worried" for the family. The best way to protect them is to tell them about Viraj.

She annoys me with her Jhanvi/Sia claims. It's like she has split personality. How is it possible that when she's Jhanvi she's afraid of Viraj and when she's Sia, she's a tigress in front of him? How is that friggin' possible? That annoys me about Jhanvi as well. It's like sending a message to victims that they should take up another name -- there. They will have the courage to defeat their abuser. That's all it takes.

Jhanvi "marrying" Raghav, agreeing to Komolika's plan of this marriage, agreeing to the fake death certificate, all will make me say that she is NOT someone who should be looked up to. Her actions are very appalling and it just baffles me that the CVs try to present that that is what DV victims should do. Get married for whatever reason, and defeat your abuser that way.

Jhanvi is stupid in that sense. I don't have any sympathy for her now. I certainly did then, but not now.

Edited by mysticgoryfilms - 13 years ago

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Aya.

@Aya.

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

#49

Originally posted by: mysticgoryfilms
This is not the first time Jhanvi has been blamed, or her actions have been questioned.

I still remember the time, on this very forum, Jhanvi was heavily blamed for not reciprocating to Raghav's feelings/proximity. At that time, people felt bad for Raghav, not Jhanvi - the victim who just fled from her husband. They were questioning Jhanvi and blaming her for not loving Raghav. Arguments were made then. Jhanvi is in trauma, she's in a state of shock. The last thing on her mind right will be responding to Raghav's feelings.

But now it's supposedly disgusting that Jhanvi is criticized (no one "bashed" Jhanvi on this forum as far as I know). She will always be a victim, but she's not in trauma anymore. Jhanvi is not in a state of shock anymore that we have to keep going back to the "she has suffered so much" statement before making decisions about her. Yes, she has suffered. Everyone accepts that and everyone's (or most people's) heart did go out to her -- then.

Now, she is not suffering. She has support from Raghav (I won't even get into the argument of him interfering and not exactly being a "help" or "support") and she will have support from the Singhs as well once she decides to tell them. She has a lot of grounds in which she can seek for divorce, yet Jhanvi decides to lie, she decides to put others in the dark for her own benefit when she is supposedly so "worried" for the family. The best way to protect them is to tell them about Viraj.

She annoys me with her Jhanvi/Sia claims. It's like she has split personality. How is it possible that when she's Jhanvi she's afraid of Viraj and when she's Sia, she's a tigress in front of him? How is that friggin' possible? That annoys me about Jhanvi as well. It's like sending a message to victims that they should take up another name -- there. They will have the courage to defeat their abuser. That's all it takes.

Jhanvi "marrying" Raghav, agreeing to Komolika's plan of this marriage, agreeing to the fake death certificate, all will make me say that she is NOT someone who should be looked up to. Her actions are very appalling and it just baffles me that the CVs try to present that that is what DV victims should do. Get married for whatever reason, and defeat your abuser that way.

Jhanvi is stupid in that sense. I don't have any sympathy for her now. I certainly did then, but not now.

@black - Omg ! Why didn't I think about that ?! You've just reminded me now ! Jhanvi was new to the city, looking all confused & scared, & some people were like how can she ignore him like that ? he loves her so much, she's hurting him, he has always helped her, blah blah blah ! Seriously dude, when I was reading those comments I was like to myself wth ?! *shaking my head !* Point to be noted ! 👍🏼

@blue - Very true. Said the same thing too !

@red - Will always agree to that ! All the fake lies, fake evidence, fake marriage, it is all nonsense ! Period.

Edited by Aya. - 13 years ago

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BizzyLizzy

@BizzyLizzy

Explorer

Posted: 13 years ago

#50

Originally posted by: Elysia

That's definitely not off-topic. In fact, you made a very important point. Thank you for adding it. You did remind me of something else as well.

There are two sides to victim blaming and victim blamers. Like you mentioned, the victim is blamed, but so are those who support/stand up for the victim. One can see that as two types of victim blaming, in a way. Then there are the victim blamers -- those who call the names, blame openly, but one shouldn't forget that keeping silent when bearing witness to victim blaming is also condoning the victim blaming.

Implicitly, it says that you are, in fact, supporting the victim blaming rather than arguing against it.

DJ and Ana..ironically, I think this point got made in yesterday's episode...in the Viraaj-Krish scene of all scenes 😆 While watching it I actually had a feeling that it was dealing with the metatext at large, except that here the mujrim himself is the judge and is - in a strange way - describing himself in terms of how Jhanvi's been viewed in the serial. The case is about Viraaj alleging that he's been victimized by the fact that the Singhs 'brainwashed' Jhanvi and changed her into something else, and thereby has stolen his rights over her - YET the court language suits Jhanvi's situation in Manali...except that SHE was lured into the Dobriyal house through her marriage, and became - through the abuse - a totally different person...a person who seems to have no rights over even her own body.

Krish is accused of being silent; ridiculous since for him it is attached to his inability to speak...but in the bigger picture of what the serial has shown, I think there's a very important point being made. Here, Krish's inaction in 'raising a voice' is viewed as criminal, viewed as worthy of punishment. Probably in a way that some might look at those who are present and do nothing at a crime scene equally responsible. Within the framework of the serial, Unniyal fits this the best -- he knows at some point that what Viraaj is doing is wrong ("not good, sir, not good!"), but chooses to ignore the implications of what is going on unless it has to do with himself, or his parameters (for instance, the idea of making false promises to child to get to someone, disturbs him to an extent). The point is clear -- silence may keep a person who has witnessed something wrong perfectly safe in that they may not exactly have to experience that murky reality, but their responsibility is as grave. The Bell Bajao campaign made that clear: the observer has the power to generate that awareness and make ripples at least, if not waves.

What many don't realise is that victim-blaming itself becomes a sort of victimization -- a way of shifting responsibility for the perpetrator's actions -- and that even an experience like that can force him/her to relive the state of mind that was present during the abuse. It was something Viraaj did, on a daily basis, rather successfully -- and it has been used on public forums from the moment she left Manali. And more than the fact that it has been voiced and Jhanvi has been seen as 'not worthy' of Viraaj, as not loving him enough to stay (err...why should she!), as not taking initiative when clearly she had no energy left to do so, and allegations of an entirely different kind the moment news came out that the casting team had found an actor for the 'saviour' role...it's the fact that very often there was very little contesting of that victim blaming going on...mostly because in real life that's exactly what many people tend to do.

Also...not going through obvious trauma is never really an indication that anyone has healed, or is even out of the 'trauma' stage yet. Even at this moment, much of what she is going through comes under the label of abuse -- whether it was Krish's kidnapping (which would have left her highly disturbed anyway, plus his plan was to have the blame for it shifted to her), the various "punishments" V concocted for her, the forced third wedding...she may not be alone, she may have support in Raghav, but emotionally, that doesn't make things any easier. Psychologically, she is still a mess, even though she's started pushing herself into a little more of a survivor mode - not passive, not self-blaming, more ready to take on responsibility but aware of her own limitations.

Her ways of coping may be questioned, and rightfully so -- but it reaches a head when she's being called names for a decision she makes for her own survival and for the family that protects her, whether it includes the help another person or not. And that doesn't always make what she is doing, or what she is facing much easier. When she is called sneaky, slimy, manipulative for attempting to find some way or the other out of a truly screwed-up situation, when people conveniently forget the attempts she made to talk on her own about what Viraaj was doing in the Singh house, when people rejoice at Viraaj arriving in Gurgaon, but still expect Jhanvi to be a powerhouse, even though she is clearly not out of that victim stage yet, when she is accused of marrying a rich man and then leaving him high and dry (as far as I can see, that screams 'gold digger' to me!). Also, whichever people HAD supported her - including Dadi and Komolika - were blamed for 'interfering' as well, clearly not taking into account that Jhanvi by then was too deep in her own depression to actually try helping herself out.

Edited by BizzyLizzy - 13 years ago

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