dont u think DKDM's losing the 'Magic' it 1ce had? - Page 8

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ivy_11 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#71

Originally posted by: sashashyam

I agree completely with your reference to the ashtanga yoga.DKD Mahadev is a mythological with deep philosophical overtones and undertones, not a Shiva-Parvati or Shiva-Sati love story alone, and it has to be taken like that. At least, unlike the run of the mill serials, they do not change the storyline for the sake of TRPs!

Moreover, the Jalandhar track is fascinating, above all because of the character of Jalandhar. He is a curious mixture of many qualities.

-Innocence - part of him is still that 8 year old whose life was centred on his mother. I simply loved that little boy, and the courage with which he coped with the crippling trauma of his mother being murdered in front of his eyes.

-Great strength, great courage and even greater prowess as a warrior, plus the intelligence of a strategist who can match the devas in both tactics and strategy.

-Arrogance, not the arrogance of power but the arrogance of excellence. He cares only for excellence, and that is why, in a reflection of modern ideas of democracy, he does not want a hereditary monarchy for the asuras, but to have their kings chosen only for being sarvashreshta.

-A deep sense of responsibility towards the asuras who have made him their own and accepted a matsyakanya's son as their king.

-Unquestioning devotion towards the guru who took charge of him, saved him from Indra, and made him what he is today.

-Integrity and a sense of honour, in life and in war.

-An almost reluctant love for Vrinda, which is the first feeling he has ever had for himself, and which he, despite being so introverted, is able to confess to her directly and with amazing gentleness.

-Finally, the burning desire to be revenged on the murderer of his mother.

He is a superb king and would have been a very good husband and father, but I expect that his whole personality will soon be overtaken by what the ancient Greeks called hubris,or overweening pride and vaulting ambition. He will thus overreach himself, go over and beyond what his guru Shukracharya, himself a devotee of Mahadev, advises him to do. In the process, he will probably destroy himself, but then his end, as he is a Shivansh, will be a relatively gentle merging back into the whole of which he is a part, Shiva.

One has to appreciate such a complex personality, which is not black or white or even grey, but a shifting blend of colours.

Vrinda too is not the usual coy, blushing maiden, but a woman professional in her own right, to use modern terminology, with enough courage to face the arrows without flinching, and enough spirit to stand up to Jalandhar. I was a tad disappointed yesterday that she did not make the slightest effort to get what she really wants, either thru telling her father directly, or telling Jalandhar to take care of it in a way that would not hurt her father's honour. But then she is not really a modern girl, for all her professionalism and her courage, but an obedient daughter who is bound by the sanskaars she was brought up to follow.

All in all, an unusual and very interesting couple.

I do not at all mind the number of weeks being devoted to the three tracks that are ongoing at present - the astanga yoga track, the Jalandhar track, and now the Mahakaal track. The footage is divided roughly half and half between the first 2 tracks, and I find both absorbing.

You are absolutely correct, good things take time, like fine cooking. One cannot always eat only fast food!

Shyamala B.Cowsik




Enjoyed reading the interesting analysis of Jalandhar's complex character.
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#72
Dear Ivy,

Thank you ever so much. It is always reassuring when others share one's take on anything, and all the more so on such a complex issue.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: ivy_11



Enjoyed reading the interesting analysis of Jalandhar's complex character.



Originally posted by: sashashyam

I agree completely with your reference to the ashtanga yoga.DKD Mahadev is a mythological with deep philosophical overtones and undertones, not a Shiva-Parvati or Shiva-Sati love story alone, and it has to be taken like that. At least, unlike the run of the mill serials, they do not change the storyline for the sake of TRPs!

Moreover, the Jalandhar track is fascinating, above all because of the character of Jalandhar. He is a curious mixture of many qualities.

-Innocence - part of him is still that 8 year old whose life was centred on his mother. I simply loved that little boy, and the courage with which he coped with the crippling trauma of his mother being murdered in front of his eyes.

-Great strength, great courage and even greater prowess as a warrior, plus the intelligence of a strategist who can match the devas in both tactics and strategy.

-Arrogance, not the arrogance of power but the arrogance of excellence. He cares only for excellence, and that is why, in a reflection of modern ideas of democracy, he does not want a hereditary monarchy for the asuras, but to have their kings chosen only for being sarvashreshta.

-A deep sense of responsibility towards the asuras who have made him their own and accepted a matsyakanya's son as their king.

-Unquestioning devotion towards the guru who took charge of him, saved him from Indra, and made him what he is today.

-Integrity and a sense of honour, in life and in war.

-An almost reluctant love for Vrinda, which is the first feeling he has ever had for himself, and which he, despite being so introverted, is able to confess to her directly and with amazing gentleness.

-Finally, the burning desire to be revenged on the murderer of his mother.

He is a superb king and would have been a very good husband and father, but I expect that his whole personality will soon be overtaken by what the ancient Greeks called hubris,or overweening pride and vaulting ambition. He will thus overreach himself, go over and beyond what his guru Shukracharya, himself a devotee of Mahadev, advises him to do. In the process, he will probably destroy himself, but then his end, as he is a Shivansh, will be a relatively gentle merging back into the whole of which he is a part, Shiva.

One has to appreciate such a complex personality, which is not black or white or even grey, but a shifting blend of colours.

Vrinda too is not the usual coy, blushing maiden, but a woman professional in her own right, to use modern terminology, with enough courage to face the arrows without flinching, and enough spirit to stand up to Jalandhar. I was a tad disappointed yesterday that she did not make the slightest effort to get what she really wants, either thru telling her father directly, or telling Jalandhar to take care of it in a way that would not hurt her father's honour. But then she is not really a modern girl, for all her professionalism and her courage, but an obedient daughter who is bound by the sanskaars she was brought up to follow.

All in all, an unusual and very interesting couple.

I do not at all mind the number of weeks being devoted to the three tracks that are ongoing at present - the astanga yoga track, the Jalandhar track, and now the Mahakaal track. The footage is divided roughly half and half between the first 2 tracks, and I find both absorbing.

You are absolutely correct, good things take time, like fine cooking. One cannot always eat only fast food!

Shyamala B.Cowsik





Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago
mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#73

Originally posted by: ivy_11

Word Minaxi.😊

I am enjoying DKDM. Infact it is one of the few shows that are worth watching on TV today...a cut above the rest. Also, the discussions are enlightening and interesting.

Hey ivy, it's good to see you after a long time😊
It is a good show worth watching & the content gives us enough matter to discuss, that's the best part.
Please be active here 😃
mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#74

Originally posted by: shaileshsay

Sorry due to unavailability of time I am unable to reply, but very soon I will reply to every one.


Seeing the good response and a 2000 views to this post I will update and re-post this. Also I will put up a new post on bhagvat Geeta & Mahadev.

Thanks Again :)

The thread is taking care, on it's own by good discussions. If a topic already exists, please do not repost it as it will be merged in the already existing one..
Saumya19 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#75
My dear,

What can I say but that I am so pleased that we are of a like mind?

Jalandhar, as was noted above by
say.maaneet, is an epic tragedy in the making. He is like the great heroes of Homer's The Odyssey, all of whom - Odysseus, Priam, Achilles, Agamemnon - were flawed in different degrees, but were great in other ways, and fascinating precisely because of these internal contradictions. In Jalandhar's case, he is far more sinned against than sinning, but in the end, too much of pride corrodes him and leads to his dissolution.

But there is something else that puzzles me. When did Jalandhar get this vardaan of being proof against any method or weapon of destruction once he married a virtuous woman, ann then only so long as she was a pativrata? They do not show him doing penance to get any such boon. He would not do it anyway, for he has nothing but contempt for all the devas.How and when does he get this boon? Then again, the loophole, which opens the door for Jalandhar to be done in by a trick to be played on Vrinda, like the one that was played on Ahalya by Indra, is obvious, and it is very distasteful.
@ bold
the thing here is that according to hindu mythology a Pativrata has the capacity to keep her husband alive (satyavaan savitri). This story comes in Vishnu Puran though I am not sure if it is mentioned in Shiv Puran or not. So while nowhere it is mentioned how Jalandhar got this boon this is an assumed cause...there can be many anomalies to this theory though...but still no where mentioned how he got this boon...so pronbably CV's had no other option but to go with the story as is...so far the trick goes in mythology it is played by Lord Vishnu...at some instances it is said that Jalandhar goes ahead and seeks Parvati as his wife too so Vishnu has to trick Vrinda(tulsi) in a similar way as Indra did Ahilya and deffo is a questionable act...but later Vishnu becomes saddened by vrinda's demise and rolls in her ashes and grieves endlessly. It is then that goddess Parvati sows three seeds in those ashes and plants of Tulsi, Amla ,And Malti come into existence. It is because of this Vishnu marries Tulsi every year since then...The difference between Indra and Vishnu here are two...one Vishnu will sacrifice his righteousness for a greater good and two he will never leave Tulsi again. Tulsi will always be his wife...Again as I said this all is a disputable act on Vishnu's part but then this is how it is.

Secondly, what powers precisely does Jalandhar have because he is a Shivansh? They show that he is now protected against even the astras that Narayan and Brahmadev have given Indra, not because he is a Shivansh, but because he is protected by the surakhsa kavach of Vrinda's paativratyam, and this even before they are married. So what is it that Jalandhar has as a special power because he is a Shivansh, apart from that of self-healing?
His endurance capacities, His unmatchable strength, his anger, he is just, his ability to reason and then his selflessness are all attributes of Shiva. He lacks the knowledge of Shiva, his capacity to forgive, his simplicity, His attachment to lord Vishnu or Ram are very few of those he lacks but then he is not Shiv instead he is just a part created in the moments of anger. These things I guess are mostly to interpretation in Vishnu puran too...so the CVs had little option I guess.

The battle scenes are also unintentionally comic.
@bold
Very true
If all that is to happen is a one on one between Indra and Jalandhar, then why drag all these men to the battlefield? They seem to take huge breaks from the battle while Indra holds his mahasabha, Jalandhar sorts out his affairs of the heart, and so on and so forth. This is hardly convincing. The Mahabharata was far more realistic in showing the Kurukshetra battles day after day.

@bold again

could not agree with you more

And what is it with Indra's reinforced arrow travelling in excruciating slow motion while Shukracharya is struggling to get Vrinda to make that crucial declaration?
they stayed true to the spirit of Indian shows...lol...over dramatizing and all

All in all, while the script and screenplay are strong and very moving at times, as in the scenes over the last few episodes between Jalandhar and Vrinda, the same cannot be said of the battle scenes and their development.
I agree again

Shyamala B.Cowsik

PS: What an absolutely fascinating id you have? Miniature paintings too need a huge amount of time, an that is precisely like the fine cooking vs fast food that I was saying below.

Thanks for appreciating my name. I am a traveler and an avid painter...Travelling rendered difficult for me to paint huge pieces so I go with smaller ones...Aceos and smaller sizes...that is why mytimypaintings. Love Saumya
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#76
My dear Saumya,

I cannot thank you enough for such a lucid and detailed response to my various doubts and questions. It was really very nice of you to have taken so much trouble over this.

Your explanation of the Vrinda-Tulsi tale is lovely. I suppose that is the origin of the saying Main tulsi tere aangan ki.

I also appreciate the distinction you are making between the cases of Ahalya and Vrinda . Vishnu does the same thing when he kills the mother of Shukracharya, though it could be argued that it was her duty to protect the sharanarthis, the asuras who took refuge in her ashram. But it was very sad for Vrinda, to have become the cause of the death of her beloved husband and also subjected to this personal indignity

As you have yourself pointed out, there are so many moral ambiguities in our epics and our puranas, such as Rama killing Vali from hiding, which was clearly contrary to yuddhadharma. In the current version of the Ramayana being shown on TV, while they exonerated Kaikeyi by showing that she was expressly requested by Indra to demand the two boons and have Rama exiled, they could not explain this away, so they fudged it.

Reverting to the first point, I am sure you are right. But the interesting thing is that Shukracharya,while trying to bring Vrinda round, avoids stating it as a general case (which is what he does when arguing the same point with Jalandhar earlier), and instead presents it as a particular one applicable to Jalandhar. I suppose he felt (undoubtedly with justification, seeing how stupidly obstinate the girl is, clinging to the sanctity of her father's commitment long after the commitment has vanished into thin air), that she would not agree otherwise.

The other thing is that this concept is not limited to the puranas.If you read Thakazhi Sivashankaram Pillai's very famous novel Chemmeen (the red fish), about the fisherfolk of his native Kerala, the core principle is the same: that the fisherman is safe at sea only so long as his wife is chaste, but once she falters, the wrath of the goddess of the sea will kill her husband!

Also, there is the other question of what happens when two men with pativrata wives fight to the death, like Ravana and Lord Rama. My grandmother always told me, while reciting Panchakanya smare nityam, sarva paapa vinashakam, that of the five - Tara, Mandodari, Ahalya, Sita, and Draupadi - the purest, in mind and body, was Mandodari. I could never understand how she won over Sita, whose apaharan was not her fault, whereas Mandodari was safely tucked away in Lanka, safe from lecherous eyes. Be that as it may, the next question is why Mandodari's paativratyam is not able to preserve her husband's life.

But she does curse Sita when she is leaving for Ayodhya, that just as she had destroyed her, Mandodari's happiness, she too would never have any happiness in her life. And of course it came true.

I agree completely with your account of the various aspects of Shiva in Jalandhar. It is a great pity that he has to be destroyed, even if he is merged back into Shiva. He is so fascinating even in his wrongheadedness, and even more so when he is so incredibly soft towards the woman he loves. Of course a lot of this impact is due to Mohit Raina's mastery over the nuances of facial expression.

As for Jalandhar being rescued at 11:59 hours, so to speak, it is not only in our movies and TV shows that this happens. In films everywhere, bombs, including nuclear bombs, are always defused when there are only 1 or 2 seconds to go to detonation. The best example in a Hollywood film that comes to my mind was in George Clooney's The Peacemaker, where the tripwire for a nuclear bomb is severed with one second to go. The only saving grace there was that it was done by a woman nuclear scientist, who was not wearing mini shorts!!

I would very much like to see photos of your miniature paintings, if it is not too much trouble. I will PM you my personal e-mail id, and as I am sure you would have scanned copies of photos of the individual paintings, I hope you can share them with me. I am a great lover of traditional miniatures, whether of the Mughal, Rajasthani or Pahari schools in India, or of the Persian school. I remember an incredible collection of 16th century Persian miniatures, From the Court of Shah Tahmasp , that I had the good fortune to be able to see at the Smithsonian in Washington, when I was posted at our Embassy there. They gave each visitor a magnifying glass at the entrance, and after over 3 hours of peering at the unbelievably detailed brushwork, I had a solid headache, but was I happy!

Warmest regards.

Shyamala

shaileshsay thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#77
also now-a-days we r missing the awesome music like "shiv shiv" "namami shamisham nirvan rupam" either they r not showing them for anonymous reasons or they r not getting scenes good enough to support the music, by any way its a con
shivamala thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#78
Shaileshsay, I do not agree with you. In my opinion this show has lot of essence, which makes it very unique.
mithilarids thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#79

it doesn't matter how much u love ur relatives, bt its very important that you see god in all those people who r not ur relatives. 😊

ur this sentence "The true love is of Jeeva to Shiva (Shiv-Shakti union), the final destination of all the souls." is appreciated!! Minaxiji


well said friend.. that is true... when we starting seeing mahadev in every one... be it human, plant, animal, flower, rain, sun, clouds, moon...

then we should think... we are near to our god,.. and it is his mercy upon us that we can see him everywhere...

may all be blessed..


Edited by mithilarids - 12 years ago
shaileshsay thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#80

Originally posted by: shivamala

Shaileshsay, I do not agree with you. In my opinion this show has lot of essence, which makes it very unique.


i nvr said its bad, i always said and will say the show is best and unique. but tht magic touch which it once had tht is little missing.
Edited by shaileshsay - 12 years ago

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