Why Poor - Page 5

Originally posted by: SolidSnake

There are examples yes but the difference between a student from a Govt school and a public school is simply too much in most cases.

i don't agree. this is coming from personal experience from growing up in india. therefore, i am dead sure one can do good even if they go to a govt school.

Talent and zeal to do good can take you only that far...upar se english factor doesn't help things. Take for example Indian Hockey team..do we lack talent or zeal..NO! But we almost never beat European or Aus teams..and this time we didn't even qualify for the olympics. The gap between us and them is simply too big.

bad example bud. i do feel we lack the zeal to make it big in hocky because there's not enuff motivation to do better there - lack of good monetary rewards and measely fan following. chk out the hockey thread. there r some great posts on why this sport is in shambles. i have seen middle class kids growing up w/o any zeal and motivation and degressing economically as compared to what their parents were. this is how important zeal is for someone to succeed in life.

It is easy to say that they need to change their attitude and do not make effort for better living..when you don't have a house to live or food to eat or cloths to wear..then such things dont even cross your mind. Thats why if reservation is to be implemented than it should be for such people. They need massive govt support.

such things may cross their minds if they have the ZEAL....they can always control their family sizes, stay away from vices that take away so much from their already meagre earnings and invest in their kids' future atleast by sending them to a school...even a sarkari school wld do.

From Dr.Ambedkar's wikipedia entry it seems his father was a degree holder working in Indian Army during British Raj..yes they faced cast discrimination but doesn't seem like their family was poor.

my bad then. i did not do any research on him but somehow was always under the impression that he was dirt poor and from sc. read somewhere he used to swim across a river just to attend school and used to do his h.w. under a street light in front of his home...pata naheen where i get this idea from!!! will check my basics here and then get back to u. i may be wrong in this particular example but then there r examples of a riksha puller's son in hydbd passing the ias exam and becoming a class I office. so, it's still doable😊

It is not a question of attitude...they simply do not know many things. Most poor farmers in villages don't seek loans from banks and instead go to private money-lenders becse they simply do not know about such loans.

they do certain things because it is within their comfort zone. they do not go out of their limited duniya because they r intimidated by the world outside it. they r intimidated with that other world because they have made their truce with their destiny and do not want to push things even if the end result would be better for them...see the connection...lack of zeal again!!!

Yes there are exceptions but they are exceptions.

if some can do it, others can do it too. if others choose not to do it then it's no one else's fault but their own.

Originally posted by: SolidSnake

If removing poverty were that easy then it would have been done ages ago not only from India but from the face of the earth.

i never said that having zeal will take them to the top of the world. i talked about having the zeal to make changes...take small steps in the rt direction and eventually get out of that vicious loop of poverty.

govts do have programs in place to uplift and help them. in developing countries, all programs do not reach the needy due to corruption. on top of that, whatever miniscule part does reach them usually don't help them much because they do not want to get out of their comfort zone and challenge themselves. haath per haath rakh ker baithney sey kuchh naheen hoga. kitney achhey programs lagoo ker doh, jab tak woh khud gareebi sey ooper utthna naheen chahengey, koi help naheen ker sakta.

You need to bring them to a certain level (yes the govt will have to help them reach there) where they are in a position to compete with others. It is a long process if done correctly.

this process has been implemented correctly in certain countries still some part of their population is poor. take for example U.S.- there r some excellent programs to get the poor back in to the mainstream. some avail thema nd some just don't. they r content using food stamps for thei ration and living in shanty homes or govt assisted living houses. even after having free public schooling, food, and shelter - these people stay poor...why???...because of lack of zeal😊

those who want to succeed do succeed no matter where they r. those who are content with what they r remain so irrespective of all the fancy dancy programs out there.

Even our best sportspersons can't compete globally (except Cricket). Do you think they are in their comfort zones or lack zeal to do well? They simply can't..global standard is too high for them.

for sports - aaj jitna compensation aur reward cricketers ko milta hai utnaa doosrey sports mein bhi doh...phir dekho. it's true they lack the zeal to do well where the rewards r not that good. on top of that there's no motivation either for anyone to invest in a sport which is not followed and rewarded as much as cricket.

i wldn't compare the poor people to sportsman playing sports other than cricket. poor people already have some options that they can avail if they want to get out of poverty. even the basic stuff like controlling family sizes, staying away from vices like drinking and jua etc and sending their kids to school..even sarkari school. the benefits will be all their if they do so...both in the short as well as long run. for sportspeople - no one will be investing as heavily as some do in cricket as there's nothing in it for the investors. not the same thing i think.

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

i wldn't compare the poor people to sportsman playing sports other than cricket. poor people already have some options that they can avail if they want to get out of poverty. even the basic stuff like controlling family sizes, staying away from vices like drinking and jua etc and sending their kids to school..even sarkari school. the benefits will be all their if they do so...both in the short as well as long run. for sportspeople - no one will be investing as heavily as some do in cricket as there's nothing in it for the investors. not the same thing i think.

@bold - right! avail the options.😊

Sorry jump in the middle on this one...jsut making sure you are still holding the flag that IQ has nothing to do with being poor, right?

Originally posted by: raj5000

@bold - right! avail the options.😊

Sorry jump in the middle on this one...jsut making sure you are still holding the flag that IQ has nothing to do with being poor, right?

yes. i am still maintaining that they r not born with low IQs.

this is what cb had in his very first post:

[quote=chatbuster]

i think poor people are poor to a large extent because of low IQ. the low IQ in turn can be linked to fewer opportunities to develop higher IQ. so it's a chicken and egg thing.

[/quote]

i agree with the bolded part but i feel the missing zeal is the reason for them getting stuck in this loop. even with fewer opportunities, they can uplift their position if they really want to get out of poverty. therefore, i feel that most of the time their lower iq is the product of their bad attitude and lack of zeal.

like i said before, even if they don't want to go to school themselves, they can alter their life choices, control the size of their families, get rid of the vices they have and atleast start sending their kids to school. apna naheen toh aglee peedhi ka kuchh bhala hoga. but if attitude is such ki jo hai theek hai then no one can really help them.

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

yes. i am still maintaining that they r not born with low IQs.

Glad to hear that....Nobody is, does IQ granter provider IQ based on who can be rich or poor, guess not. But type casting poor as having low IQ is not right IMO.😊

Originally posted by: raj5000

yes. i am still maintaining that they r not born with low IQs.

Glad to hear that....Nobody is, does IQ granter provider IQ based on who can be rich or poor, guess not. But type casting poor as having low IQ is not right IMO.😊

on the contrary, i think people are born with different IQ levels- it's a combination of nature/ genes and nurture. and sadly i think the poor do have lower IQs/ brains. am not talking narrowly here about what they would score on a standardized test, but on a broader definition of "brains".

apart from genes, the lower IQ might be attributable to their circumstances- poor health and nutrition, limited opportunities for advancement, to gain exposure, limited education and confidence levels etc. These all play a symbiotic role in how the brain/ mind and in fact the entire personality develops, and in whether someone would have the zeal or the talent to rise above their station in life.

as for typecasting, that's what the debate is about. not that we are necessarily doing it for any noble reasons, but typecasting is implicitly what researchers do to develop solutions.

Originally posted by: Morning_Dew

Here is another debate:

Poor people are poor , cause they have low IQs , otherwise, they would've made their own ways eventually to get rich ..Nah....that's not it😆 You wanna meet my husband's Gran mate! I've never met a person of her age who are usually expected to lose their marbles......and she outwits us everytime! The saying in my family is "God only knows what would have happened if she had been eduacated!!!!"

Or

It is nothing to do with IQ it is more of the chances of opportunity .Much more likely to be the answer. Somebody has to break the mould somewhere though. If you look at a lot of the people that came from Indai tot he UK they came here for a better way of life and worked their socks off to try and get for themselves and principally for their children. A lot of that hard work is now reaping benefits in the educated classes we have today certainly in the UK that are now comfortable and enjoying high standards of living.

But if those same people had stayed in India, I'm not so sure they would be quite where they are now.......attitudes are different there. It seems though globally the rich do keep getting richer whilst the poor are eternally poor.

Really unfair.

😡M😡