Partition - did it help or hinder? - Page 8

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

ohhh...these seeds were watered by the nehruvian clan of politicians all along...wonder why even after so many years of independence masses are still uneducated in India. Before cleansing and spiritual growth happens, we need to educate masses...prepare their minds to recieve the new ideas. It's a vicious cycle QT....it's not what you and I think...it's what these so called politicians still want the masses to think.

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

I've seen educated fools among these too.. Educated ppl disrespect the fabric of our nation- constitution, educated people also vote for wrong politicians, support roaming free of Sanjay Dutt and salman Khan.. Now Gandhi Nehru clearly did not preach that, did they?

We have to take the blame once and for all.

and as you said, if politicians are still dictating crores of people, then why do we pretend to have made advancements post-independence? We have clearly made significant progress in terms of science and technology. Something is not cohesive here.

only because these sectors were privately owned. Tell me a single governmental entity that is world class in India???

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

only because these sectors were privately owned. Tell me a single governmental entity that is world class in India???

Originally posted by: chatbuster

the history posts above do not undermine what i suggested. if anything, the impression that comes across in those posts is at worst insensitive handling on the part of nehru. still, as someone representing all elements of society at that time, he was wanting possible flexibility in later dealing with how much special status to accord the minorities. what was so power hungry about that? is that so wrong for a democracy? what are the polticians doing today, if not tripping over themselves to accomodate the minorities in india. just wish they had majority interests at heart too!

and even from this source, it looks like the muslims under jinnah did not trust the hindus. though if we look at history the reverse should have been true. it's clear that jinnah had his heart set out for partition. something or the other would have served as excuse for him to go after that demand.

ps. some of the citation is by maulana azad, probably a rival of nehru and therefore not necessarily a favorable view of nehru. read Freedom At Midnight to see what the British thought of Jinnah and Nehru. between the two, the book at least indicates that Jinnah was clearly the more power hungry, depicting him as quite despicable and often practising in his personal life things he did not preach publicly. for example, the book does not even paint him as a devout muslim, so much for trying to protect the minorities! btw, has any of those hindu backlash theories against muslims, some of them floated by him, panned out in India?

CB, I have read the book and other books too. Britishers just wanted to get out as they knew , they stand no chance. They cared least who wants what. They had already divided us and some took advantage of it.

May be you and me both need to revisit these books as to me it has been a while and I am really not a fan of Nehru clan anymore, who I did admire once. Some of it does come from my grand father, my dad and uncles who wer freedom fighter and my grand father also used to say that we were blind follower of Gandhi & Nehru. No one in common was in favor of partition but a general belief was spread that Gandhi ji suggested and lo, all went in favor.

Maya/QT, what are leaders for?

You stop killing mice as a protest of voilence and hence spread diease, but you donot stop voilence when country is being divided. You tell britishers to go throug you to get our nation, but you could not say the same thing for out country?

What I know is statement of Gandhi/Nehru was like a brahm vakya for major part of nation. Now what is done is done, We cannot stop it. but even today ho many of us are working towards the betterment of the nation?

Our trade and commerce had a major hit due to partition. Bangla desh got one of the most part and pAkistan tokk major of Punjab. Luckily Kashmir Naresh decided to stick to india or else they would have got that too. Now if Jinnah was playing his cards, you think our such great leaders were so blind folded that could not see the greed?

No all these leaders did was water the seeds sown by britishers and carry the throne to their names.

Why there is not a single book putting a question mark on ruling done by Shastri ji? Just because he believed in doing then talking?????

More to come later as got to go to pick up kids 😃

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

why does it have to be world class? Freedom from the British was about rising against injustice. Why are we sleeping today? If private sector flourished, that means we have talent. we have means.. what we dont have is the mind set.. we are happy to hate each other as long as we get to label ourselves secular democracy 😉.
BTW, indian Railways are doing pretty well imo. 😆 (lalooo ji, decent job)

Before leaving, let me take this back to PARTITION and its effects.. 😳.. we have deviated here in a way.

QT, that is the way to tell private sectors are doing better because they have no interference of Gov and our leaders 😆 for Laloo the great also he carried what was suggested, but kuddos to him for doing that adn usually Congress's first step is to put a stop on what ever previous party is doing 😆

May be Gov should be converted into private sector

See you later😆

Originally posted by: Swar_Raj

QT, that is the way to tell private sectors are doing better because they have no interference of Gov and our leaders 😆 for Laloo the great also he carried what was suggested, but kuddos to him for doing that adn usually Congress's first step is to put a stop on what ever previous party is doing 😆

May be Gov should be converted into private sector
See you later😆

My sentence was a bit misconstrued here. What i meant is, i dont care which section indicates development . since private section was mentioned, I took it and said that as long as any section is progressing, it means that TALENT and MEANS exist. All sections can progress if we decided to fight the system in a proactive way instead of beating drums of ancient civilization and / or Indian dream of becoming a superpower. We got to clean up lot of our acts.. dump hypocracy in the name of secularism and democracy.. We need visionaries once again.. and if we elect such politicians, and justify our helplessness 😉.. then scr🤬w us.. we don't deserve any better..

Originally posted by: Swar_Raj

Maya/QT, what are leaders for?

clearly not for following them blindly when they make mistakes😉

You stop killing mice as a protest of voilence and hence spread diease, but you donot stop voilence when country is being divided. You tell britishers to go throug you to get our nation, but you could not say the same thing for out country?

i did not understand this sentence.. out country? Those two who threw such sentimental mumbo jumbo at masses did not have vision. They were great humans, but not visionaries.

What I know is statement of Gandhi/Nehru was like a brahm vakya for major part of nation.

and that i doubt is their fault . They were not Pied pipers 😉

Now what is done is done, We cannot stop it. but even today ho many of us are working towards the betterment of the nation?

that's precisely what maya and I said. It is upto us. 😆😆.. did u read that one? lol lata..

Our trade and commerce had a major hit due to partition. Bangla desh got one of the most part and pAkistan tokk major of Punjab. Luckily Kashmir Naresh decided to stick to india or else they would have got that too. Now if Jinnah was playing his cards, you think our such great leaders were so blind folded that could not see the greed?
No all these leaders did was water the seeds sown by britishers and carry the throne to their names.

and how many years since they did that?? Indian women wore clothes back then! Times have changed darling. Why can't we rise above Nehru's preaching?

Why there is not a single book putting a question mark on ruling done by Shastri ji? Just because he believed in doing then talking?????

& in returrn, how many Indians alive clebrate his birthday same day along with that of the father of the nation? 😛 Do people remember Shastri much?? Do ppl need LEADERS to tell them to remember him if possible??

More to come later as got to go to pick up kids 😃

Originally posted by: Swar_Raj

Ha ha QT dear. even our leaders have talend or they will not be pied pippers.
What i said was for the period when some leaders were runing the show and it was needed. All cannot fight for independence as an individual. If people depend on you they you better be visinory too,
All people wanted was freedom then....we all got it but on the cost of partition and who got benefit 😛 .
yes I did read and my statement was to agree with it. but this thread was to did graves so i did 😆

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

But we are still running after their ghosts!! 😆😆.. I don't like that and I cant blame the ghosts 2000 years from now..

good good @ agree 😊. I am not fond of any politician and won't be unless qt become one 😉, but I frankly believe we need to rise and shine and accept the partition once and for all, clean up terrorism as much as we can, secure borders better, resolve kashmir and make a clean cut / clean retainment of it.. we have post-independence hurdles here and we should not take lightly, we must stop borrowing our vision from N & G. They were dead before we discovered DNA structure.. We should let them rest in peace.

QT, debate topic was whether partition was helpful to India or not. We all agreed it was half-a**ed effort. Then we analyzed why it was half a**ed and that's where the Jinnah, Nehru and Gandhi came in to picture.

I agree that educated Indians are as much responsible for determining the fate of the nation as our current crop of politicians. That's why we see so many Indian entrepreneurs taking India to a new height in technology and BPO jobs even w/o any solid support from the government. Unfortunatley, they had to do it on their own as government and politicians are still stuck up with reservartion quotas as the only way to improve the masses.

Fact is that there's only a limited pool of politicians to choose from and all of them believe in divide and rule and care for their gains over what's good for the country. It is very easy to claim responsibility and say what we should or should not be doing but I would love to hear a couple of brainwaves regarding how to improve the current political scenario....that's where everyone draws a blank...both sides ...you who believe in claiming responsibility and I who believe in politics being the curse on our country.

Since coming up with ways to improve the current crop of politicians and aam janta contributing towards getting some decent enough political leaders would be outside of the scope of this debate, I'll leave it here😊