Ayodhya:Ram Janmabhoomi - Page 6

Originally posted by: ani11

Raksha ....with no offense to you...but if you are assuming that the people who are condeming this act ..are just doing it to look good and be politically correct...then i am so sorry that there is no point in having this kind of debate...........i also applaud those who said that they supported it but that does'nt mean that the others are doing it to be politically correct.

If u know me...then u must also be knowing that i keep getting into trouble again and again because i speak my heart out and do not bother to go with what may seem popular but go with what seems correct to me....i hardly ever bother to be politically correct and neither was i being PC over here...

Just needed to clarify this ......😊

Ani, just some questions, forget about what's happening on this particular thread and let us take it at face value that all of us are saying what we mean without being PC. That leaves us with the real world, will the so called tolerant Hindus, who come out with big articles in the newspapers to condemn every single act by the Hindus but remain silent when the very same thing is done by other religions, convert to another religion without protesting just because someone is pressurising them?? If their immediate family are affected by some riot perpetrated by the other religions will they still feel the same way about religious tolerence and non-violence??

Whenever Hindus in India protest the over zealous activities of the missionaries, the West comes out with statements like, India is a secular country and Hinduism teaches tolerance. Why is it expected of us to be tolerant all the time?? Tolerant to what level and is it really meant to be one sided?? As long as we act meekly it's ok but the moment we protest against them treating us like a doormat, we become the villain. What is good for them, ain't good for us, is that what they mean??

Originally posted by: souro

forget about what's happening on this particular thread and let us take it at face value that all of us are saying what we mean without being PC. That leaves us with the real world, will the so called tolerant Hindus, who come out with big articles in the newspapers to condemn every single act by the Hindus but remain silent when the very same thing is done by other religions, convert to another religion without protesting just because someone is pressurising them?? If their immediate family are affected by some riot perpetrated by the other religions will they still feel the same way about religious tolerence and non-violence??

Whenever Hindus in India protest the over zealous activities of the missionaries, the West comes out with statements like, India is a secular country and Hinduism teaches tolerance. Why is it expected of us to be tolerant all the time. Tolerant to what level and is it really meant to be one sided?? As long as we act meekly it's ok but the moment we protest against them treating us like a doormat, we become the villain. What is good for them, ain't good for us, is that what they mean??

Originally posted by: souro

Ani, just some questions, forget about what's happening on this particular thread and let us take it at face value that all of us are saying what we mean without being PC. That leaves us with the real world, will the so called tolerant Hindus, who come out with big articles in the newspapers to condemn every single act by the Hindus but remain silent when the very same thing is done by other religions, convert to another religion without protesting just because someone is pressurising them??

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

Very nicely put Soumya! 👏
Those who condemn one but not the other are hypocrites. 👎🏼 they are in abundance in all parts of the world.🤢🤢🤢
Tolerance does not always mean allowing one to walk all over us,👍🏼 but do we really have to come down to acts of VIOLENCE 🤢 in the name of protecting our culture, values, our kind? I know it is hard to actually be passionate about once religion and let other biasly pass judgments. I used to think like you probably do now, but now I don't. If peace and good life becomes priority, one can leave the dark history behind and move on.
I am very glad about Indians going ☢️☢️☢️ NUC 👍🏼, not deterred by sanctions and such. THAT IMO, is standing up for oneself, one's country and one's right as an equal citizen of the world. But destroying anything for that matter... is not great defense IMO.
It makes more BITTER people.. Can you tell me substantial achievments of all these protests/ Hinduistic fights? We are and will be a secular country. Our politicians will MANIPULATE minorities and we will go on.. We should accept it and stay peaceful, so that we can reduce tensions for our subsequent generations.
Just my views and they could be wrong. willing to edit anything that hurts anyone. thanks.

Shouldn't that question be asked to the leaders of the other religions, who started it first in a race to increase their followers?? Hindus never went cutting off someone's head or destroying religious sites just because they don't have the same faith, they did it, and now Hindus are paying them back in their coins.

Originally posted by: souro

Shouldn't that question be asked to the leaders of the other religions, who started it first in a race to increase their followers?? Hindus never went cutting off someone's head or destroying religious sites just because they don't have the same faith, they did it, and now Hindus are paying them back in their coins.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

oh thanks. of course, there are those of us who genuinely believe that it was a sad day. the question- what does matter- is actually for them. would love to hear from them.
the second part about activists doing our job- that perhaps is a reaction from history. we saw how we lost out when prithviraj chauhan kept allowing mahmud of gazni to walk away after repeated defeats in battle. we saw how our "way of life" and "philosophy" got eroded after that.

unfortunately, we get too apologetical about times when we do react. if hinduism is a dying religion, as some intellectuals in my circle believe it to be, we can thank the lackadaisical attitude that pays lip service to our "way of life" and "spiritual philosophy", but is not ready to do more. sab kuch chalta hai.

I hear you about the religion dying and tolerent people (including myself) ith our cliche'd way of life spiritual philosophy. I can see why a passionate Hindu would consider myself diluting the strenght of Hinduism. However, just to make ourselves heard, are we then willing to compromise what Hinduism taught us? If we do come down to violent acts, then how proud were we of the religion any way? Being passionate to protect and support the religion taking one away from its preaching is anticlimactic though passionate rather than lacklustre

also, unlike what newton believed, cause and effect are not immediately linked. if it was, there'd be "no last straw that broke the camel's back". for a lot of causes, there aint any discernible effect. when there is, it might seem like a disproportionate one, but it is often justified. response is often non-linear, as was the case here, but justified imo.

Why exactly the ram janma bhoomi issue is so fierce again? Why was it the last straw on that camel's back? There are 10000 temples all over India that were demolished and build into a mosque / just abolished.. If the research of Oak is correct, even Tajmahal was a Hindu temple. Are we going to break it down? How about Kutubmeenar - aka Vishnustambh? We are not a Hindu country and majority does not like to be secular, I think that's where the problem lies. Just as I think that unification of Indian states was a disaster and there will never be real unity in diversity except when we need to get our anger out on white skin- 😉, I am sure many of us feel angry at being a secular country. Many of the BJP workers in the area infested with them (my folks lived there then) seriously think that India should be a Hindu country. Allow others to practise whatever, and be tolerant, but be a Hindu nation. so when will the violence stop? until they figure out what they want?
Simply loved that non-linear explanation by the way & the camel too 👏👏 but will not justify it for being a destructive act.

Coming back to what does matter to us- What seriously matters is that we don't REPEAT the same mistakes. It only makes mother earth a more insecure place to live in. World Trade attacks are the last straw and hence Afganistan happens, Iraq follows, and probably follows Iran..
Troops need more money, affects NIH funding directly and hampers money that could have been used for betterment of life world-wide.
Those who died in those towers and planes will not return, and neither will we be absolutely secure from an unprecedented terrorist attack in future. What did we really achieve?? What did we really achieve in Ayodhya? More religious divide IMO. What really matters is for all of us to learn to live as who we are and that Gazni & others who came and looted us was history. Perhaps we shud not have been busy fighting back then either 😉. Don't VOTE for politicians who are biassed and manipulate minorities. Raise voice against them. Don't kill and don;t destroy. Why is it so hard?

I always remember what Black mamba (Uma Therman) tells vernita green's (vivica fox) daughter in Kill Bill after she kills vivica. Have you seen Kill Bill? 🤔- else this is a waste- "You have the right to be sore about this and when u r ready, come find me". Revenge never ends.. what's the point.. where's the honour.. As you beautifully said (that touched my heart the most), we'll all be lifted on stretchers one day, .. so why use the passion to make others miserable because 500 years ago someone invaded what was yours! Amend the constitution.. Write better future. Don't dwell in the past. That's what matters to us.

Originally posted by: raksha.l

Souro, what did you mean by this???Then where is the end???The debt will never be paid off

I would say Hindus are not trying to pay it off..Atleast to me, that;s not the right attitude that we should have...We have never tried to pay it off..Otherwise, India would be a Hindu state by now for all practical purposes, even though a secular one on paper...😊

I don't mean paying back by pulling down Babri masjid, that's a small part of it. I mean paying back by not tolerating any of their nonsense anymore. Now we protest when they come to town with another of their programs to teach us 'Pagans' the incorrectness of our religion. We protest when they say the respective prophets of their religions is the ultimate and our gods are just mythological figures worth nothing. They tell us the religious books of their religion was express delivered to their prophets and all of it is God's own word (never mind what we think of such a claim), and our religious scriptures are not worhty because they were written by humans. They ask us, 'Where were your Gods when so many temples were destroyed, a god who can't protect himself, how will he protect you??', I'm thankful that now we can ask them the same question too.

If we really start paying back by destroying religious structures, then half of the number of you know what will be gone.

Originally posted by: souro

Shouldn't that question be asked to the leaders of the other religions, who started it first in a race to increase their followers?? Hindus never went cutting off someone's head or destroying religious sites just because they don't have the same faith, they did it, and now Hindus are paying them back in their coins.

NO I cannot, they cannot and you cannot either, because there never will be NONE. There are some battles where both sides are LOSERS. This is one such and hence I condemn it. Gaznee days should be behind us. We have been an independent nation over 60 years. We cannot clean our act (political) and we find ways to blame something on the INVADERS. Invaders invaded us and were rampant because we were busy fighting among ourselves. Monkeys that brought AIDS to humans were not at fault. People who have unprotected sex are. We don;t go killing those monkeys now, do we?? because AIDS is a huge threat to Indian population?

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

NO I cannot, they cannot and you cannot either, because there never will be NONE. There are some battles where both sides are LOSERS. This is one such and hence I condemn it. Gaznee days should be behind us. We have been an independent nation over 60 years. We cannot clean our act (political) and we find ways to blame something on the INVADERS. Invaders invaded us and were rampant because we were busy fighting among ourselves. Monkeys that brought AIDS to humans were not at fault. People who have unprotected sex are. We don;t go killing those monkeys now, do we?? because AIDS is a huge thread to India?

Sure I can. If we're to forget everything because Ghazni happened some 1000 odd years ago, then even this act of Babri masjid will become 500 yrs old one day, so why don't they let go?? Forgetting would have been a solution if all the attacks in all the form would have stopped years ago with that Ghazni, when they are still going on in some form or the other how can they expect us to forgive and forget. The incident of Babri masjid is already 14 yrs old, still they go on a rampage every 6th December to protest, should we pull down another structure every 6th December to commemorate??😉 They should be thankful that no one is doing that and majority of us don't want to demolish every other religious place. Babri masjid was important because of its location on the Ram janmabhoomi.

About battles, QT in a battle there can never be two losers. The side that prevails, ultimately gains.

For your monkeys, they didn't ask any human to take HIV from them and spread it, it was the fault of the person who first acquired it from them. The moment these monkeys start spreading it themself, it will be justified to take action against them.