Tired of debating? Have a break... have a Chit Chat - Page 34

Originally posted by: souro

Sometimes I don't get Genie's logic. 🤔

Originally posted by: charminggenie

I am not supporting refugee or not angry at it. But please tell me why powerful countries with a political will would take them if it doesn't benefit them, these nations never go on war without it giving them a benefit.

Originally posted by: souro

You're saying that it is economically beneficial for the host country as they will get aids and they will have bigger clout when negotiating deals with certain countries.

I'll take up the second part first because I didn't understand it at all. If Germany takes in Syrian and Iraqi refugees, how is that going to give them a clout when negotiating with Saudi Arabia? Germany having million refugees, how does that translate into Saudi Arabia giving cheaper oil to Germany?

Not cheaper oil. That is not the only commodity. If you have followed the trade influx of Saudi-Germany, which was shown to be sliding down till 2013 to now, Germany has become the 3rd largest exporter to SA resting at 7.4% ( Source: German-Saudi Liaison Economic Affairs).

Germany's worry is never being cut-off from oil but the world pricing of oil ( Germany\'\s biggest oil source be Russia). It;s concern is in exploring Saudi Arabia as a market and for regulating oil prices.

But it's the exports that Germany makes to Gulf Countries that has seen a big jump over the last couple of years specifically ( IMF stats Direction of trade statistics)

When I say Gulf countries , i mean the entire region rom Bahrain, SA, Iran, Iraw etc

It's surprising to see so much trade between Germany and Gulf in last few years when essentially the two power blocks have not considered each other natural partner.

Germany by tradition has never interfered in the regional politics , until now.

Hence, my point about the economic benefits..because there has been a surge in agreements between the regions when they were so ignorant of each other. How is the trade flux related to Germany meddling , managing and trying to stake a power claim in the region not related with each other.

Politically- Germany has leveraged itself as the Top Dog of Europe especially in Merkel years when the honour usually went to either France or UK.

Or when was the last time, we actually bothered about a German President or their take on Gulf?

The first part was surprising as it is counter intuitive. A country takes in a million refugees and receives a large amount of aid for it, and that according to you will be so huge that it outweighs everything. I don't know how much aid they receive, although I have never heard India receiving much aid for taking in Bangladeshi and later on Sri Lankan refugees.

The examples I posted was for Lebanon and Bahrain both have got billions of dollars and their websites, basic articles state so. India , umm, is different..world doesn't view India , like we want it to view. Last time I checked not many actually took India's side during the Bangladesh War..so there is that

Poland whose right wing govt recently said no to taking refugees has actually got big monetarily aid from EU purse when it did take refugees and it's refusal is to negotiate a better price for taking in more migrants. (Source :FT)

Moreover, if they do receive aid, surely there are costs incurred as well, to build infrastructure like housing, education, health, sanitation, power and there will be enormous strain on existing infrastructure which can't be readily upgraded, like transport, policing, which will lead to higher crimes and poorer quality of life in general. If the refugees get concentrated in a certain area, which they almost always do initially, it leads to inflation in that region, shortage of food, disease outbreaks, sudden rise in crimes, certainly there will be cost involved in tackling those. The domestic consumer base increases because of refugees which may lead to slight increase in the GDP of the country, but I don't see that translating into higher GDP per capita, rather it'll go down. Had the country allowed only those people with money or certain skills to migrate, I'd have understood, but mass refugees, almost all of whom are poor, how are they going to add anything much to the prosperity of the country. A country full of poor people becomes a poor country. The only economic benefit that I can think of is if Germany use these refugees as cheap slave labour to make their products more profitable and more competitive in terms of cost.

Cheap labour , unskilled labour is a big attraction too. But the reasons you mentioned are exactly what makes "the why" so important.

Why would a thriving country which presumably has no connect with that region would bother taking hundred thousands of refugees for peace or humanitarian grounds. When have we known a country to be so benevolent?

Originally posted by: souro

You study these things, so you will know better. It just doesn't seem to fit in with common sense about how to go about making a country prosperous. Vote bank politics is different, it doesn't make the country prosperous, it just benefits a certain political party at the cost of the country's well being.

What you asked about 'Why Germany is taking them in' is very pertinent though. It certainly can't be out of benevolence only, I'm yet to see a foreign policy based on altruism. They must be benefiting somehow, but the question is, who is benefiting, is it the country or is it the political party and a few industrialists?

Originally posted by: charminggenie

Not cheaper oil. That is not the only commodity. If you have followed the trade influx of Saudi-Germany, which was shown to be sliding down till 2013 to now, Germany has become the 3rd largest exporter to SA resting at 7.4% ( Source: German-Saudi Liaison Economic Affairs).

Germany's worry is never being cut-off from oil but the world pricing of oil ( Germany\'\s biggest oil source be Russia). It;s concern is in exploring Saudi Arabia as a market and for regulating oil prices.

But it's the exports that Germany makes to Gulf Countries that has seen a big jump over the last couple of years specifically ( IMF stats Direction of trade statistics)

When I say Gulf countries , i mean the entire region rom Bahrain, SA, Iran, Iraw etc

It's surprising to see so much trade between Germany and Gulf in last few years when essentially the two power blocks have not considered each other natural partner.

Germany by tradition has never interfered in the regional politics , until now.

Hence, my point about the economic benefits..because there has been a surge in agreements between the regions when they were so ignorant of each other. How is the trade flux related to Germany meddling , managing and trying to stake a power claim in the region not related with each other.

Politically- Germany has leveraged itself as the Top Dog of Europe especially in Merkel years when the honour usually went to either France or UK.

Or when was the last time, we actually bothered about a German President or their take on Gulf?

Originally posted by: charminggenie

Germany is giving grants to Poland to take the refugees . It is not expecting or wanting a grant. It's gains lie elsewhere.