PM sending chaddar Ajmer Sharif - Page 6

Originally posted by: indianprincess

yes sure, 84 was congress doing, but the majority supported the act through their silence . yes i agree many of the hindus gave shelter and supported their sikh friends and neighbours.. but the majority approved of it.

this is the harsh reality.

after IG death, even zail singh the then president of india was attacked bcoz he was a sikh.when a man of a president's rank in attacked ,you can imagine what common sikhs had to go through.

shortly after the riots same party was re elected with thumping majority.. so much for hindu-sikh brotherhood. today the same hindus hate the congress, but consider IG as their hero and some even justify 84 genocide for her.

Originally posted by: atominis

Sikhs don't believe in fasting. Karvachauth is not their thing. Ones who do it might be outside Punjab. Also Punjabi Hindus are also there who people mistake as Sikhs perhaps just because they go to gurudwara.

Sikhs celebrate Diwali as it is Bandi Chor Diwas for them. Their Guru returned and was freed then. They had lit lamps to welcome him. Similarly Sikhs have Holla Mohalla where martial arts, horse riding, are displayed, special paath, kirtan and langar are performed. Guru Gobind Singh started this at Anandpur Sahib.

Otherwise Sikhs do not celebrate Holi. Just because a Sikh friend or relative of yours celebrated because he liked it or as a friendly gesture, it doesn't mean Sikhs celebrate Holi. Holi is not our tradition.



Idol worship, rituals, fasts are not a part of Sikhism and their teachings. Their Holy book speaks against these things. It's meaningless for them.

Most Sikhs staunchly discourage that.

I am from a Sikh family and I can tell you what the truth is and explain the situation.

Guru Gobind Singh created Khalsa and gave distinct identity to Sikhs. Sikhs have preferred to die than gave up their faith, beliefs, articles of faith etc in past.

Just because the nature of religion was liberal, people twisted it. Slowly, many started avoiding getting baptised.

The unshorn hair, kangha, kara, kirpan etc started seeming restrictive to some.

It is simply the pressure to conform.

Plus our people in India somehow always reduced religion to rituals. Sikhism had no such things as fasting. But mentality of people is such that they turn to ridiculous claims like fasting will give something in return.

The Sikhs who followed their teachings and Code of conduct to the T were mocked. And still are. I and my cousins mocked few relatives. There's pressure to fit in.

Sikhs were in minority. They have always faced resistance throughout their existence. Many were killed if they refused to convert. Many had hair forcibly cut off.

For them, survival and fitting in were always an issue. The people who hoped to be sucessor to Gurus but weren't chosen, started conspiring against Gurus or started own sects. Guru Nanak's son is an example. He was not chose as successor so he got his own followers and started own cult.
You will see many deras across Punjab of some baba or the other who claim to have relation with Sikh Gurus or claim to have fought or worked with them. These babas adopted ways of existing majority to get new followers. If they also bless, fast or do other things, it doesn't mean Sikhs do that or Sikhism teaches this. They are not at all a part of Sikh Gurus' teachings.

Just because Sikh Gurus never prescribed harsh punishment to those who didn't follow religion properly, it doesn't mean they were fine with it, or deviance is okay in Sikhism.

First they faced problems with Mughals and Afghans, resistance from other religions, then British Rule arrived. Survival and fitting in was always an issue.
Most invaders entered India through Northwest and Punjab has always faced strife. The very history of the land is enough to tell a lot about what Sikhs are.

Partition ruined them again. Many got killed. Some got forced to convert. They were afraid for losing their ancestral land and homes. It is because of being in minority and being spread all over (historical Sikh Gurudwaras and places of birth of Sikh Gurus are there in different parts of India, they were there in Pakistan too but due to being in minority the Sikhs got no say), that their leaders grudgingly agreed to be a part of India only.

It is to escape killings and further persecution that some of them started following majority's ways to gain acceptance and peace.

At the end of the day there is only so much that one can take. Survival, stability matter to everyone.

Some Sikhs stopped taking amrit. Some cut hair. Some started participating in other festivals either to get acceptance or due to old time cults that were dividing their community.
What's happening abroad now, also happened here. People would make fun of Sikhs. Their long, unshorn hair, their turbans and kirpans.
My own father has been through this during growing years. Sometimes someone would open his jooda, make fun of him but he tolerated it just for sake of safety.
My grandfather often used to argue in case anyone mocked or insulted them or questioned their religion or misunderstood them. But my grandmother was paranoid and always asked him to avoid and stay safe lest anyone got violent.

Only the ones who have seen bloodshed and experienced displacement continuously, know how much fear it can instil.
When some of my relatives went to other states for higher education, my grandmother only advised them to focus on study and jobs and be safe. The uncles and aunts who studied or worked in those places avoided speaking much. Even took part in Hindu festivities just to fit in.

The ones who felt persecuted and wanted to stick to their faith were effectively subdued and silenced.

There was movement for own state then. But the trifurcation of Punjab and denying Punjab its own High Court and Capital did not go down well with many. This coupled with general pressure to conform to majority and clubbing Sikhs with Hindus, making fun of Sikhs' looks, kirpan etc was what that gave birth to Khalistan movement.
That movement was supported by some, opposed by some.

When I discussed it with my family, they admitted same fear of another bloody struggle, violence and instability.

Sikhs were divided. Many were also silenced either by family or bosses and colleagues at work. The ones who had been settled here and finally doing well, feared another round of instability.

While Sikhs don't agree with Operation Bluestar, they are divided in their opinion because this further worsened things and threatened survival. 1984 riots weren't just in Delhi.
They affected Sikhs all over India. My father was working in Gujarat as a doctor with Indian Railways. He had mobs looking for him but it was an attendant of his who helped him escape safely. He resigned from that lucrative job in fear and moved to Punjab. My grandmother's fears grew even more. They had settled around Jaipur after my grand father's retirement. But they gave up everything and yet again lost their home. They started from a scratch in Punjab.
From then on the Amritdhari Sikhs and Sikhs in general became feared. The mocking and suspicion all increased.

It was Catch 22 situation for the aam aadmi. Some were only concerned with survival. Some felt cause of Sikhs' freedom was a must. There was pressure from all sides. Many Sikhs were jailed, killed in fake encounters or disappeared, many gave up "obviously" Sikh appearance and names to escape persecution and just survive.
Many moved abroad.
Sikhism just got scattered.

When people are displaced and in conflict for ages, some of them then start thinking only of survival.

Sikhism was just reduced to visiting gurudwara or keeping uncut hair. Even those were abandoned by many.

Few follow the teachings and rules of Sikhism for real. People have started cuttiing hair, often don't even visit Gurudwaras or follow Hindu or any local rites and rituals. Often people mistake Punjabi Hindus for Sikhs.

Though quite a lot of people still follow Sikhism in its original essence but they can't help it if their own people are not looking beyond survival.

So if you find people with turbans in a Hindu temple or wearing turban but having a trimmed beard, it's not a sign of Sikhs being Hindus or part of Sanatan dharma. It is matter of survival, convenience, fitting in and has ties to cultural changes.

People are becoming modern and changing. Just as many Hindus don't follow each and every practice necessarily it doesn't mean they are not Hindus. Or if they celebrate X Mas or go to a gurudwara or dargah it means they are part of Christians, Sikhs or Muslims.

Abroad also Sikhs have same crisis. Some are proper Sikhs, some started cutting hair whereas some cults also started by certain white men who were impressed by teachings of Sikhism and started following it their way.

You've got to be lying and kidding if you denied the pressure to conform and stay safe.

Same happened to Sikhs post 9/11, abroad. Some started mistaking them for Muslims and started attacking them and their Gurudwaras. Their kids who grew up their already wanted to adopt more of a Western culture.
Many cut their hair, shaved, changed names to avoid persecution yet again. It doesn't mean one can say Sikhism is all this or a part of Hinduism.

There are many who maintain Sikhism as it originally was. And try to dispel myths about their religion.

There are many who made it a matter of convenience.

I see a lot of Sikhs in BJP who get clicked with babas or attend pujas just to get political mileage.

Indian government has been pretty clever. They manipulated Sikhs and cashed on their fear. On one hand Sikh struggle was subdued and quelled. On other hand to fool people they made Sikh President in 80s.

Nobody likes Badals in Punjab. But they are ruling and built property worth crores.

It is evident that a routine person will choose jobs, ranks and ensure surivival than constantly fight.

People remain silent. Till date. All because they do not want to suffer.

And people of my generation either know nothing or adopted religion our own way, or shrugged entire history or did adopt Sikhism in true form but kept it to own selves.

The relatives of mine who practise Sikhism in proper form keep telling us about teachings, sacrifices etc. But we just listen and leave it. They also don't impose further. Their kids do follow the faith properly though.

I admit the odd man out feeling is there in every Sikh. As a man if you have long hair, guys not aware of your origins make fun of you. As a woman if you're hairy then also you feel out of place. A Sikh woman was recently made butt of jokes due to her "beard".

I might sound controversial here but the rules of true Sikhism are hard to follow. Waking up early in morning, doing Nitnem etc. And especially not shaving or cutting hair at all are tough to follow.

Sikhism is a faith which is struggling to survive. No surprise you called it part of Hinduism just because you saw some so called Sikh relative fast or cut hair. People abroad label it a part of Islam without knowing a thing about it.

I don't like facial hair. I didn't get baptised. I don't go to Gurudwara daily or do Nitnem. But I write Sikh in my forms.
And it doesn't mean seeing my lifestyle, people should assume about Sikhism and its teachings.

I don't mean to offend any Sikh who might be reading this. But yeah, we lost the plot over selfish concerns of survival.

I personally feel Sikhs should have formed advocacy group for their rights instead of that Khalistan movement later. Their leadership was weak.

I hate religion and communal talks knowing and seeing what it leads to.

I don't like Sikhism being branded as a cult of either Islam or Hinduism.

That Khalistan movement has left such a label on Sikhs that anyone who preaches true Sikhism or wants to advocate for recognition as unique, separate religion is labelled an extremist.

Now how is upholding own unique identity, extremism? They are not asking for a separate country or something!

Punjabis in general focus on securing own safety and survival now. And Sikhs are part of this. The region, having suffered enough strife, doesn't want more. Today's Punjab is not even a patch on what Undivided Punjab used to be.

Time and now issues on rights, stereotypes etc come out. But who cares?

You're given examples of Manmohan, Zail Singh, Montek Singh blah blah to claim Sikhs are doing fantastic.

Or you get examples of Sikhs who cut hair or observe karva chauth.

It's done, dried and dusted.

I don't talk much to Sikh friends and relatives on such issues now. Sikhs have lot to blame themselves for. They don't even allow movies on them to raise awareness at least on what Gurus were all about.

We are a divided lot. And while we feel we are being liberal. We don't realise how others perceive us part of this or that dharma.

I wish the country where it originated, didn't resort to such things. Just because you know people are struggling for survival and already less in number, it doesn't mean you claim their religion as your majority religion's sect.

Jains are also leading movements. But their voices were ignored. Buddhism? Does it even exist now?

I am ashamed the foundation of this country was laid on communal basis. It irritates me to see community based discussion like this.

I know about our Sikh history but arguing is futile because damage is done. And the ones who wanted to correct it are not right in their approach either.

Same community that used to make sacrifices now lost its roots.

Chalta hai.

You blame Congress but you should be happy they fooled and subdued so many people be it in North, NE, South. Several independence movements exist or existed here. But all were labelled separatist, insurgents, militants, traitors, anti national elements etc. And dealt with so mercilessly that their own community better remained silent than join them.

Don't assume I am against any community. Communities lived together in Undivided India despite clashes. Only the ones from Partition affected areas know this well enough. Now also not against any religion. But definitely oppose clubbing of Sikhs with Hindus.

I can see why Muslims are being this opposed. They don't perform Hindu rituals and didn't "amalgamate" enough na to brand them as part of Hindus!
Don't worry. The propaganda of calling them all sons of converted ancestors might yield result someday.


BJP follows same strategy. Installed Muslim Prez but had 2002 "riots". Amusing they blame Congress while they themselves are no different.

Originally posted by: cineraria

After 26/11 terrorist attacks on Mumbai, the Indian Government had given directives to the BCCI to not include Pakistani cricketers in IPL teams because of Pakistan's non-cooperation in investigating the attacks and handing over those identified as terrorists to India.

It was a form of political protest so that Pakistani people put a pressure on their government. How successful such a protest would be is a different thing but the fact is that it was done in national interest. But Shah Rukh Khan was opposed to this. He wanted to include Pakistani cricketers in KKR and thus was called out on this protest. Had there been any person in place of Shah Rukh Khan, she/he too would have been similarly called out.

But the question is, why cite one isolated event. Why ignore the bigger picture here, the Khans are worshipped like Gods in India. Why overlook this fact? If India were so bad for Muslims that would certainly never have been the case.

Originally posted by: atominis

@9tanki

SRK was targeted by Shiv Sena. Around 2008-2009 and again in 2010. And you must be kidding if you said you didn't know about Love jihad and population jihad allegations! There were deluge of tweets on population jihad when births of Aamir and SRK's respective sons were reported.

There are some nice Hindu websites with even stated aims to build Hindu Rashtra that wrote long articles on Bollywood Khans practising population jihad and love jihad. Aamir was taunted and trolled on Twitter when he went for Hajj. I have seen those myself. Quite a lot of people don't like the fact that Khan movies are popular.

Then you have likes of Dr Subramanian Swamy writing tweets claiming ISI funded the anti Hindu film PK. Sadhvi Prachi ji said Khan movies must be banned as they promote love jihad. Durga Vahini made Kareena the face of love jihad "victims". People like Sadhvi Prachi and Sakshi Maharaj keep talking about things like chaar bachche, love jihad and the most disgusting comment - "Ramzaadon ki sarkar ya Haramzaadon ki sarkar". Who did she refer to as "Haramzaade"?

And we are supposed to believe minorities are doing fantastic. You might be proud of such PMs. I and many many others are not. Whether it was 1984 ones or 2002 ones. Rajiv was shameless enough to dismiss massacre of Sikhs with a statement like "When a big tree falls, the earth shakes"! Huh?

Of course communities should amalgamate and finally accept they are descendants of converted Hindus or outsiders. Since nobody likes to be called an outsider so descendants of converted Hindus must be better, no?

😆