Higest number of Serial Killers from US

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#31

^^I

Dear friend?! When did that happen? 😆

The level of happiness in Ipsos' poll was self reported. Nothing empirical about that survey.

To give you an analogy, you saying that "you are doing well" is not the same as a doctor saying that you are doing well, after running the requisite tests on you (blood, urine, stool ...😆)

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BirdieNumNum

@CuckooCutter7

Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

#32

Originally posted by: K.Universe.
^^I

Dear friend?! When did that happen? 😆

The level of happiness in Ipsos' poll was self reported. Nothing empirical about that survey.

To give you an analogy, you saying that "you are doing well" is not the same as a doctor saying that you are doing well, after running the requisite tests on you (blood, urine, stool ...😆)

yeah, but some of those doctors will in fact make you sick. They'll convince you that you are sick, and even if you weren't sick you'd become sick.😆

ok no jokes, but thanks, you're making it easier for me to make the point below.There are different versions but this seemed apt here.

Mexican Fisherman Meets Harvard MBA What Really Matters in Life?

Posted on 15 December, 2012 by sakinshrestha " 4 Comments "

One of the most inspirational and touching story I have read. This story is originally written by Heinrich Bll, and the title was: Anekdote zur Senkung der Arbeitsmoral ("Anecdote on the Decline of the Work Ethic"). It is about an encounter between an enterprising tourist and a small fisherman, in which the tourist suggests how the fisherman can improve his life.

An American businessman was standing at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish.

The American Harvard MBA: How long it took you to catch them?
The Mexican Fisherman: Only a little while.

The American Harvard MBA: Why don't you stay out longer and catch more fish?
The Mexican Fisherman: I have enough to support my family's immediate needs.

The American Harvard MBA: But what do you do with the rest of your time?
The Mexican Fisherman: Responding with a smile, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life, senor."

The American Harvard MBA: Impatiently interrupted, "Look, I have an MBA from Harvard, and I can help you to be more profitable. You can start by fishing several hours longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra money, you can buy a bigger boat. With the additional income that larger boat will bring, before long you can buy a second boat, then a third one, and so on, until you have an entire fleet of fishing boats."

The American Harvard MBA: Proud of his own sharp thinking, he excitedly elaborated a grand scheme which could bring even bigger profits, "Then, instead of selling your catch to a middleman you'll be able to sell your fish directly to the processor, or even open your own cannery. Eventually, you could control the product, processing and distribution. You could leave this tiny coastal village and move to Mexico City, or possibly even Los Angeles or New York City, where you could even further expand your enterprise."

The Mexican Fisherman: asked, "But senor, how long will this all take?"
The American Harvard MBA: After a rapid mental calculation, he replied "Probably about 15-20 years, maybe less if you work really hard."

The Mexican Fisherman: asked, "And then what, senor?"
The American Harvard MBA: laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO (Initial Public Offering) and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions."

The Mexican Fisherman: asked "Millions, senor? Then what?"
The American Harvard MBA: said slowly, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos"

The moral of the story is:
Life is Simple. Know what really matters in life, and you may find that it is already much closer than you think.

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souro

@souro

Alumni

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#33

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

In the world happiness index, US ranks 15th, Switzerland ranks 1st and India ranks 117th.

Saw this report. I don't want to compare India to US or Switzerland, as obviously US, Switzerland and other developed rich nations have a much more well organised governance system in place, much less corruption, less crime, more earning and more comforts accessible in life, so they being ranked so high is not a surprise. What surprised me was certain countries which we know are not well off compared to India, like Pakistan, Bangladesh and yet being ranked higher than India.

One (optimistic) hypothesis that I have to explain Pakistan and Bangladesh being ranked higher than India is the level of aspiration of the citizens. Logically, a poorer nation, with more corruption, more crime, more social problems and lower income, should be ranked lower. However, if the people of that country still say that they are happier than a better off nation, it perhaps means that they have got used to their miseries to such an extent that they don't even know that they deserve better or can have a better life, they have come to accept the life that they have currently as the best that they can have or deserve. Whereas, citizens of India being comparatively unhappy may be an indicator that the aspirations of the citizens have increased. People have become more aware about what the possibilities are and dare to think that they too deserve a better society, less corruption, crime and more comforts in life.

Of course there can be other explanations as well, like increasing divide between the wealthy and the poor, ongoing issues about castes, religions or something else.

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#34

Birdie, I remember reading a Jataka tale similar in theme to what you narrated.

I get the point. It's all about outlook.

However, that is a simplistic take. Nothing in that story determines the "well-being" of the fisherman.
He says he has "enough" to support his family's immediate needs. First off, needs change; they are never a constant. No one can predict medical needs, for instance. Second, he cannot speak for all, regarding what their needs should be, even if they are his family. Who knows, the wife might want a Lamborghini, while this guy is probably thinking basic needs such as of food/shelter/sex.

Anyway, the reason we are talking about "happiness" and "well-being" is to emphasize on one of the factors "social support" - positive social relations, characterized by values such as trust, benevolence and shared social identities, all necessary to debunk the mental unhealthiness of American society used by some to support their theory as to why there are more serial killers here.

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#35

Originally posted by: souro

One (optimistic) hypothesis that I have to explain Pakistan and Bangladesh being ranked higher than India is the level of aspiration of the citizens. Logically, a poorer nation, with more corruption, more crime, more social problems and lower income, should be ranked lower. However, if the people of that country still say that they are happier than a better off nation, it perhaps means that they have got used to their miseries to such an extent that they don't even know that they deserve better or can have a better life, they have come to accept the life that they have currently as the best that they can have or deserve. Whereas, citizens of India being comparatively unhappy may be an indicator that the aspirations of the citizens have increased. People have become more aware about what the possibilities are and dare to think that they too deserve a better society, less corruption, crime and more comforts in life.

Great point. They did use Dystopia, an imaginary country which has values equal to the world's lowest national averages for 2012-2014 for each of the six key variables used. All countries are measured against Dystopia.So it's possible that some of the nations you mentioned thought they are "better off".

But again, we can extend that logic to countries ranked above India too. Unless these countries think they are as good as Utopia, they have no reason to think that they too cannot have a better life than what they currently have. In other words, what is stopping people from the countries ranked above India to not think like Indians?

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BirdieNumNum

@CuckooCutter7

Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

#36

Originally posted by: K.Universe.
Birdie, I remember reading a Jataka tale similar in theme to what you narrated.

I get the point. It's all about outlook.

However, that is a simplistic take. Nothing in that story determines the "well-being" of the fisherman.
He says he has "enough" to support his family's immediate needs. First off, needs change; they are never a constant. No one can predict medical needs, for instance. Second, he cannot speak for all, regarding what their needs should be, even if they are his family. Who knows, the wife might want a Lamborghini, while this guy is probably thinking basic needs such as of food/shelter/sex.

Anyway, the reason we are talking about "happiness" and "well-being" is to emphasize on one of the factors "social support" - positive social relations, characterized by values such as trust, benevolence and shared social identities, all necessary to debunk the mental unhealthiness of American society used by some to support their theory as to why there are more serial killers here.

actually i do subscribe to the idea behind that story... For all the wealth etc that the US has (something like 70 trillion dollars household net worth), they're not as happy as they should be. They're not as crime-free as they should be... in spite of all the statistics and economic numbers one can come up with. In fact, going by your logic, if the economic aspects have such an effect, can you imagine what a cesspool of crime and sex the developed west would be if they were not so rich????

there's also no reason for people to claim they are happy if they are not. On something as qualittative as that, i'd rather go with what people report than predictions off a quantitative model that cant even explain why people in the developed world don't appear happier.. And Norway/ Switzerland are happy countries? What are people smoking?.

also,there's a huge difference between physical creature comfort well being, and mental. So let's not confuse what well-being your reports purportedly explains.

Also, let's be clear- those are models, and based on what people are reporting they seem to be far off the mark. Bad models😆. They should dump those models, find better models that can explain actual results, not phony quack stuff they would have expected based off their limited understanding of what might constitute happiness, 😆

Edited by BirdieNumNum - 10 years ago

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#37

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

can you imagine what a cesspool of crime and sex the developed west would be if they were not so rich????

Boss, if they were not so rich, they wouldn't be in the developed nations bracket now, would they?

If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle. My aunt doesn't. So she is not my uncle.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

there's also no reason for people to claim they are happy if they are not. On something as qualittative as that, i'd rather go with what people report than predictions off a quantitative model that cant even explain why people in the developed world don't appear happier.. And Norway/ Switzerland are happy countries? What are people smoking?

.

OK, I agree that it is qualitative. But then it becomes subjective. The model these guys adopted strives to portray an objective picture of the well-being of the nation. Governments (the good ones) use these objective results to set policy. No policy can result out of "I am happy". We need criteria to decide the reason behind happiness/unhappiness.

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#38

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

Also, let's be clear- those are models, and based on what people are reporting they seem to be far off the mark. Bad models😆. They should dump those models, find better models that can explain actual results, not phony quack stuff they would have expected based off their limited understanding of what might constitute happiness, 😆

You have no idea what you are talking about.

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BirdieNumNum

@CuckooCutter7

Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

#39

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Boss, if they were not so rich, they wouldn't be in the developed nations bracket now, would they?

If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle. My aunt doesn't. So she is not my uncle.

OK, I agree that it is qualitative. But then it becomes subjective. The model these guys adopted strives to portray an objective picture of the well-being of the nation. Governments (the good ones) use these objective results to set policy. No policy can result out of "I am happy". We need criteria to decide the reason behind happiness/unhappiness.

you're missing the point. For a rich country, they're not so happy. That's point 1. hey'd be in hell if they were any less rich. That's point 2. Hope that helps.😊

as for your point about models, let me reply with following which i edited after you posted-

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souro

@souro

Alumni

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#40

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Great point. They did use Dystopia, an imaginary country which has values equal to the world's lowest national averages for 2012-2014 for each of the six key variables used. All countries are measured against Dystopia.So it's possible that some of the nations you mentioned thought they are "better off".

But again, we can extend that logic to countries ranked above India too. Unless these countries think they are as good as Utopia, they have no reason to think that they too cannot have a better life than what they currently have. In other words, what is stopping people from the countries ranked above India to not think like Indians?

If you see Indian media or educated Indian people, they are constantly comparing Indian quality of life, governance, corruption, crime, poverty, literacy to developed nations and in terms of pace of development of infrastructure and military to China. So, Indian people have a visible target - the developed nations, more specifically US, which they, even if grudgingly, consider as the Utopia, if for nothing else, the power and the money and the conveniences that power and money bring in life. This constant comparison and coming up short obviously will create a dissatisfaction with their current life among Indians or any other country which looks up to the developed nations and aspire to reach that stage. It becomes even more difficult for Indians because they are hearing everyday that India is competing hard with China and few other countries to get the tag of developed nation, become a world power, financially and militarily and yet every time they look, they find that India is far from achieving the target because of population, poor government policies, corruption, etc. things that are beyond their control and that makes them even more frustrated.

Developed nations don't have anyone to look up to, as currently they are most powerful, most prosperous. They see all nations looking up to them, idolising them, obviously they will feel that their country is the best that there can be. If they have to compare to a better country, they will have to imagine that better country. Expressing ones own thoughts itself is a very difficult task for most people, especially when they are suddenly asked a question, imagining something and then expressing what they want is even more difficult. If you try to get responses from normal people you'll realise how difficult it is for them to think quickly and express their opinions about something, which is why in research a lot of indirect methods are employed to get responses out of them by giving them scenarios to which they can easily relate.

There are some countries, like Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, etc. which are ranked high but are not really that well off in any way. Their ranking defies logic and the only thing that comes to my mind which can explain such behaviour is 'delusion'.

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Mexican Fisherman Meets Harvard MBA What Really Matters in Life?

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