Theory of Evolution - Page 3

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-Trishh- thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#21

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil


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@bold --- That's just one aspect of what Darwin said Vinu 😃...but I agree, there was a missing link in the monkey-human theory. Sometimes I feel if monkeys evolved into humans, why arent we seeing any monkey beoming human-like since lets say IVC time?! ..But I guess there was a different species, that became extinct sometime...


I even doubt that also, DNA of banana and man are said to be 97% the same(correct me if I'm wrong, dont remember well)... now is there any resemblence between banana and man, like in monkey and man? 😆...Maybe the monkey to man theory wasfalse 😃



There was another species that was the ancestor to both humans, and apes(I think monkeys too). They aren't directly related.
-Trishh- thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#22
And technically, Darwin didn't say this quote. It sums up the basic idea of his thoughts I guess, but he didn't say that quote.
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#23

@QuietlyLoud.

Darker bears couldn't camouflage against the ice. So they couldn't hunt easily as their prey spotted them sooner. They also fell victims to primitive humans. The Polar bears weren't competing in a direct rivalry with each other. The Albinos didn't eliminate darker bears in the Arctic, nature did.

In a broad sense we are all competing to survive. But survival of the fittest isn't a boxing game where one species knocks out others.

Social animals have a system of food distribution. The alphas do get to eat first and have larger shares. However, the food distribution is designed for survival of the pack. A pregnant female and young children will get the share needed to survive. At the same time animals can be cruel too. A sick or injured pack member can be abandoned to prevent them from being a liability to the pack.

Natural selection is the prime theory that explains all our traits. As I mentioned nature rewards both cooperation as well as competition depending on the situations.

return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#24

One common misunderstanding people have with evolution is that monkeys became people.

There was one common ancestor. Their offspring branched into two or more different evolutionary tracks. Then their offspring branched into two or more tracks.

So that is why monkeys, great apes and homo sapiens all exist because each is the result of a different evolutionary track.

QuietlyLoud thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#25

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Darker bears couldn't camouflage against the ice. So they couldn't hunt easily as their prey spotted them sooner. They also fell victims to primitive humans. The Polar bears weren't competing in a direct rivalry with each other. The Albinos didn't eliminate darker bears in the Arctic, nature did.

hmm I'd agree it wasn't competition driven if the change was gradual and did not occur as an immediate result of mutation, you know like brown bears gradually changing into albinos as a result accumulation of favorable adaptations over a period of time. Albinos didn't rise as a result of genetic anomaly/mutation but darker fur just got lighter as a result of accumulation of positive traits required to thrive in a colder environment.However it is said that a group of brown bears were isolated in the arctic region due to glaciation and some of them had a thicker and lighter coat and they acquired it as a result of mutation and not as a gradual change.Here speciation was immediate and not gradual.Being closely related they had to depend on same resources for food and living space and they couldn't migrate being geographically isolated.In this case,I think they had to compete on different levels.I don't mean it as a direct rivalry between the groups but more like one group survived at the expense of the other . If there weren't any albinos in the original group,it's quite possible that the brown bears would have survived and gradually got adapted to the environment.



QuietlyLoud thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#26
Now when I think about it, Krootkin's theory is not much helpful in explaining evolution.Yes,for social animals, cooperation is essential for survival but it doesn't have much role in making a species evolve,I believe.His theory does not appear to favour variations like Darwins' and evolution only happen when nature selects favourable variations.
Edited by QuietlyLoud - 10 years ago
Angel-likeDevil thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#27
^^ "co-operation" with the vagaries of nature leads to adaptation, leading to their survival... maybe that's the way Kropotkin intended to put it. Co-operation as in for -
Smaller period of time -- with fellow species, trees, etc
Longer period of time -- where species under the influence of numerous conditions, finally evolves into something else or develops(morphologically etc) to survive.
amidstthehues thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#28
I don't think these are diametrically opposite views. Kropotkin laid emphasis on one aspect(mutualism) that leads to natural selection and ultimately evolution. Darwinism is applicable to all sorts of biological interactions, not just mutualism.

Facultative mutualism is the smartest way of interacting, indeed.

Symbiosis, ie. obligatory mutualism, example in algae and lichens, ensures harmonious evolution. But ,on the other hand, has negative aspects too. In symbiosis if one species gets extinct, other meets the same fate. Reason being fundamental dependency. That's a drawback of it. If it's facultative then species can still survive in absence of team work, ain't obligatory. Ain't obligatory, so ain't basic for survival. It just makes survival easier eg. through division of labour at various organisational levels, like in human society.

Other drawback of mututalism is deceit. Nectarless plants having attractive flowers use nectar dependent animals for pollination purposes, giving no rewards in return. Occurs in human societies too.

Also, not every species/individual is compatible with every other species/individual, so mutualism ain't possible everywhere. Humans ain't no exception.

Ideal condition, infinite resources, will to cooperate are needed to ensure stable mututalism. Realistically, other biological interactions, like competition, amensalism etc come into play more often to make sure weaker ones get eliminated from the gene pool. Two mutually dependent and co-operating entities get competitive at perceiving risk/ threat.


The competition can be between weaker species and nature, or weaker species and stronger species. When it's weaker v/s nature, former has to either adapt or extinct. Industrial melanism, for example. Extinction of melanic moths in pollution free areas and that of lighter ones in polluted zones. Whereas lighter ones in pollution free and melanic in polluted areas were naturally selected.

When it's weaker v/s stronger,
1. At community level - Weaker loses. Unless stronger is willing to co-operate/share/accommodate.

2. On large scale - Weaker may even extinct. Stronger, fit one, survives.

Nature's concern is inheritance of best genes and elimination of faulty ones from the pool, anyhow. So, mutualism or not, it's still survival of the fittest at the end of the day where definition of fitness is decided by situation, not the ones exposed to it.
QuietlyLoud thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#29
I consider cooperation as an inherent behavioural trait among many others.The extent of it can be different in different organisms.Migration is also another behavioural trait.Many birds cannot survive without migration.Likewise many animals cannot survive without cooperation.Looking from an evolutionary POV , nature rewards many such behavioural traits if it helps the organism in adapting to the new environment and not just the cooperation.It's just as important as other such behavioral traits. Competition,on the other hand is the driving force behind natural selection.There's always a competition between genes representing different traits.Nature favors those traits which help the organism better adapt to the environment while slowly eliminating the genes representing unfavorable traits from the gene pool.
983175 thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#30


Suddenly English seems like an extremely difficult foreign language.. 😳 😳
Edited by Quixotic5 - 10 years ago

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